Adhd - Page 5

[Greaseball]

Raven -

Some psych's do consider shy children to be diseased. It's sad that a child can't be a unique creation of the universe without being labeled.

When I was a kid I insisted on having my head shaved and wearing my shirts inside out and shoes that didn't match. I bet they have a name for that sort of eccentric, debilitating, sick behavior now.

[Britishmum]

Greaseball - I've done more research and take my hat off to you - you were right, it seems that most of the children in the Castellanos study that I quoted were already being treated with drugs. This fact was omitted from the reports that I read of the study.

Thanks for the insight.

[Greaseball]

Britishmun - "Talking Back to Ritalin" describes (very tediously!) exactly what Ritalin and other stimulants do to each and every area of the brain. It makes sense that these changes would be noticeable, and common with other children who had taken the drugs.

It was hard to read that chapter. Endless pages of "and here is what Ritalin does to the basal ganglia..."

[memac]

I've just skimmed through the thread and I just wanted to quickly mention my experience with my son. He had a difficult time in school. He was easily distractible, had a hard time concentrating, was physically uncoordinated and was very shy. His teacher thought he had ADHD, but the diagnosis just didn't sound right because many of these beahaviors didn't show up at school. A fellow parent at school mentioned Sensory Integration Dysfunction and we pusrsued that course. Sure enough that's what he had.
He now is undergoing occupational therapy and we are homeschooling him. The change is incredible. He is now much happier and calmer.
My point is there are a lot of other developmental difficulties out there that mimic ADHD and it's worth pursuing other avenues.

[Greaseball]

More stuff

"[One particular psychiatrist] claims to have located an objective, diagnostic sign for ADHD - foot tapping. According to [this guy] foot tapping or fidgeting, in and of itself, is sufficient enough to make the diagnosis:

" 'Fidgeting and foot movements are common signs of hyperactivity in ADHD patients - so much that such patients can usually be diagnosed in the waiting room by a receptionist.'

"He then goes on to say 'The reduction of the foot sign in ADHD patients may also be an indicator of the stimulant drug response.' Thus, he first diagnoses the child by the increased rate of foot tapping and then determines the medicine is working when the rate declines. It's as if there is no one attached to the foot.

"ADHD is a diagnosis that treats children as if they have no feelings, reasons or motives behind their actions...The diagnosis merely counts the number of unwanted, undesirable or irritating behaviors displayed by a child. It doesn't ask, 'Why is this particular child acting so jittery or nervous? What is the child thinking or feeling? What is the child's inner experience? What is the child responsing to?' In fact, [it] rejects any concern with the child's feelings. There isn't a single item among the ADHD criteria that requires asking a child, 'How do YOU feel?'

"Considering the joylessness of many schools with their authoritarian structures, it is fair to speculate that hyperactivity may be a normal response - indeed, even a healthy reaction - to an intolerable situation."

(Talking Back to Ritalin; Peter Breggin, MD; pgs 153-54 and 156)

[Lemon Balm]

OMG Greaseball! I am an out of control foot-tapper. So is my father. Thanks for clearing that up, now we know that we're undiagnosed ADHD! LOL. I can't wait to share this with my husband whose always laughing at us - I wonder if he'll rush right out and get me some Ritalin ...though personally, I think Xanax or Valium would be more effective for our out of control feet.

I'm so glad that when I was a child we weren't diagnosing ADHD the way we are now. When teachers reported to my parents problems I was having with boredom, it could have easily been suggested that I had ADHD. I could have easily ended up taking Ritalin or the like. Whew!

I would certainly like to think that the practitioner who bases diagnosis on foot tapping is a rare example of how things are being handled.

[Greaseball]

And here's more!

"Schools also benefit from kids being diagnosed with ADD as a learning disability. The government gives schools $420 per ADD kid; state funds are also available. At a time when school budgets are being slashed to the bone, disabilities are valuable for school funding. The amount is not a lot per child per year but it does go into a common pool where it can be used in a discretionary fashion."

(Dr. Breggin, quoting journalist Trish Ready from Washington State.)

[TwinMom]

How do the schools or government know who has ADD? My daughter has a diagnosis but does not take medication at school and is not in any kind of special ed. Well, she's in the gifted program, but so is her (nonADD) twin, but I don't think that program gets any funding. It should, but that's another vent . So, how would her school get extra funding for her?

[sha_lyn]

Twinmom .... if your DD isn't under treatment (meds, "special ed" )at school and the school didn't do the testing then the school probably isn't getting funding for your DD.

[Greaseball]

Yeah, like she said, schools could do their own testing and refer to a certain doctor, who will make the diagnosis official. With the official documented "disability," the student then qualifies for the LD program, and the schools qualify for the funds.

Also, "special educational services" is a very broad definition that can include things like a nurse giving out a dose of Ritalin at school - a "professional health service" which "better enables the student to fulfill her learning potential."

The reason some students have trouble living up to their potential is that it may not truly be THEIR potential - it's more like an expectation of someone other than the student.

[ivy]

Anyone read this? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1009080635.htm

[ivy]

Originally posted by Britishmum
....I believe that the brain difference is real, but that it could be caused by any number of factors, not least by the lack of use of these parts of the brain in early childhood....

I meant to add this - the idea that it's partially caused by a person's home life is what makes a lot of parents of ADHD kids defensive and so less likely to even participate in debates like these(I've read that twin studies have shown home environment makes no separate contribution to the incidence ADHD). I'm sure you know that it wasn't all that long ago the the mothers of autistic children were blamed for their child's disorder. As were the mother's of schizophrenics.

For what it's worth, the developmental pediatrician my ds sees believes that ADHD is caused by a combination of genetics and vaccines.

[Greaseball]

NIMH is funded by drug companies. Of course they are not going to say anything bad about drugs. There is overwhelming evidence that amphetamines cause all sorts of brain damage.

Changes in brains, even brain sizes, are perfectly normal and there are studies showing that brains look different at different times of the day and after certain stressful events as well.

NIMH frequently distorts the results of its own studies in ways such as leaving out relevant data that makes the drug look bad, testing the drugs for only a short time (Ritalin was tested for only 2 weeks before it became approved by the FDA; Prozac took 6 weeks), failing to use controls and placebos, and not conducting double-blind studies. Even if the children in the study had not been on drugs at the time of the study, they probably were at some point in their lives - it's not likely that a doctor would diagnose them as having ADHD and then not prescribe drugs. Additionally, any damage to the brain could be caused by illegal drug use, which is more common now in elementary school children than it has been in the past, and the "brain scans" cannot determine what caused the damage. This same claim was made about schizophrenia - that it caused brain shrinkage - and then so many problems were found with the study and it was determined that antipsychotic medication was to blame.

Before drug company funding, groups such as the American Psychiatric Association and NIMH were more oriented to "talking therapy" and less about drugs. How money can change things...

[Greaseball]

For those who wish, here's a more "official" perspective on the problems with the NIMH study and why the results should be considered invalid. I hope this link works!

http://www.breggin.com/mta.html

[journeymom]

Link between soy formula and adhd, maybe

Contact: Andrew Porterfield
[e-mail]
949-824-3969
University of California - Irvine

Is there a link between soy formula and attention deficit disorder?


Scientific study of soy milk finds behavior problems from high manganese levels
Irvine, Calif. -- Does soy-based infant formula lead to attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)? There's much speculation -- but little science -- on this association. Shedding some light on this problem, a UC Irvine-led study discovered that a mineral found in high levels in soy milk appears to be linked to behavioral problems.

The study in rats, one of the first scientific inquiries into soy milk and ADHD, indicates that the mineral manganese may cause behavioral problems if consumed in high doses. The study appears in the August issue of NeuroToxicology.

Francis Crinella, professor of pediatrics, and his colleagues at UCI and UC Davis found that giving rats increasing levels of manganese during infancy resulted in behavioral changes at higher doses. The researchers also found that manganese exposure resulted in lowered levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine, which plays a key role in inhibiting behavior seen in cases of ADHD.

"Manganese is a mineral that's essential for life. But past studies on manganese miners have shown that it causes a number of behavioral problems," Crinella said. "Soy milk formula contains about 80 times the levels of manganese found in breast milk, posing the risk that infants could receive too much manganese in the first weeks of life. While we've shown that behavioral problems can result from manganese exposure, we don't know if these problems are permanent, or result in ADHD among humans."

Crinella and his colleagues found that at lower doses, manganese did not result in any significant changes in behavior in the infant rats. However, at the experiment's highest doses of manganese, researchers saw that the rats were much more inconsistent at completing tasks than they were at lower doses.

In addition, the researchers found significant decreases in dopamine with higher doses of manganese. Previous research had shown that dopamine decreases occurred in areas of the brain that are critical for performing problem-solving tasks. These areas of the brain coordinate what is called the brain's "executive function" and are known to be deficient in ADHD.

"While this study shows a definite correlation between high manganese and lower dopamine levels, we still need to see whether high manganese doses result in permanent behavioral problems, including ADHD," Crinella said. "While soy milk by itself is not harmful, manganese can be removed through a laborious and expensive process. Only more scientific research will determine whether or not removing manganese would provide any prevention of ADHD in infants."

Manganese is in the Earth's crust and is found in nearly all cereals and grains, including soy. It is a mineral important for enabling cells to obtain energy. High doses of industrial exposure have been known to produce a syndrome called "manganism," marked by tremors similar to Parkinson's disease and spasmodic, often violent, behavior.

Crinella and his team are now working on simulating human doses of soy milk formula to test whether they have any connection to behavioral problems.

###

Crinella's colleagues included Trinh Tran, Winyoo Chowanadisai and Bo Lonnerdal of UC Davis, and Louis Le, Michael Parker and Aleksandra Chicz-Demet of UCI.

A complete archive of press releases is available on the World Wide Web at www.today.uci.edu.

[Greaseball]

On one hand, encouraging children with "ADHD" symptoms to change their diets shows them something healthy they can do for themselves, instead of taking toxic drugs. Also, the parental attention required for a child to stick to this dietary change may be even more valuable than the diet itself.

OTOH, looking to a child's diet for the causes of problems sometimes still means ignoring other possible real problems - the school, the home life, and the everyday stresses of being a child in an adults-first, child-prejudiced society. This approach still considers the child's symptoms to be problems that must be gotten rid of, rather than normal - even healthy - responses to their particular situations.

A healthy diet can benefit anyone...but probably won't make someone like school. But I do think that schools should do more to encourage healthy eating.

[Britishmum]

Ivy you say "I meant to add this - the idea that it's partially caused by a person's home life is what makes a lot of parents of ADHD kids defensive and so less likely to even participate in debates like these(I've read that twin studies have shown home environment makes no separate contribution to the incidence ADHD). I'm sure you know that it wasn't all that long ago the the mothers of autistic children were blamed for their child's disorder. As were the mother's of schizophrenics."

I thought that I'd been clear, several times, saying that I believe that the ADHD diagnoses are due to a combination of factors. One factor may be a lack of use of attention skills in childhood. This is just one factor, and it 'may' be. I have said repeatedly that I don't doubt the experiences of the people talking here, but that the truth is that many children are being diagnosed as ADHD who are not true ADHD.

I know this first hand. I have worked with children with ADHD diagnosis, who miraculously 'recovered' when they have moved to a different school or different teacher. I also worked with a child with a diagnosis from a top specialist doctor. The mother admitted that she fostered the ADHD symptoms in her son because she received a disability benefit if he took Ritalin, and didn't want to lose it.

Now, again, I clarify, I'm talking about SOME diagnoses.

You are right, that parents might become defensive if people talk honestly about the myriad of possible causes of this condition. But if nobody questions the rising numbers of diagnoses, then the abuse of millions of unnecessarily drugged children will continue.

Again, I'm not saying that parenting contributes to all diagnoses. But it does to some, and to ignore this for the sake of offending conscientious parents would be irresponsible, in my opinion.

Regarding school funding, certainly, in the UK, an amount of weighting for school funding is based upon the number of children with special needs. ADHD would count towards this. So yes, a school would receive more money if a child were diagnosed ADHD. If he were statemented, he woudl receive direct funding for help, which would benefit the school. However, I seriuosly doubt if many headteachers would push for a diagnosis to up their funding. In my experience, most headteachers are more interested in helping the child then fiddling their special needs figures to help out their budget.

[Greaseball]

I believe that if a child has a problem, there is usually some adult partly responsible. That doesn't necessariy mean it's a parent or teacher, but sometimes it is.

Some ADHD-labeled kids, just like some kids without the label, are abused and disrespected in the home and at school. But not all of them. Sometimes adults fail to meet the emotional needs of children not out of spite, but out of ignorance. And again, it's not always the parents.

[jannan]

adhd

i voted a brain disease that needs drugs..... i voted this because i truly believe it is a condition of the brain that causes behavior in the child tha tis not condusive to the entire learning environment of the classroom..... however as a 2nd grade teacher i have referred children for evaluations but i have never suggested that the parent put the child on ridilin or adderal.... that is the doctors job....also, this isn't la la land we need to prepare our children for the challenges that await them in this world . i won't believe they'll be well prepared if they are staring into space, crawling on the floor in the classroom, or losing their belongings... anyone care to agree?: :

[Greaseball]

Re: schools preparing kids for real life

we need to prepare our children for the challenges that await them in this world .

This is from "Talking Back to Ritalin" by psychiatrist Peter Breggin.

"Real life? How many adults will be asked every day to sit silent and still on hard chairs in a room of thirty peers through hour after hour of lectures and rote exercises by single instructors of varying ability? How many will have to raise their hands before being able to go to the bathroom? How many will be unable to leave the room at all during the entire day simply to take a break, get a snack, or call home?...How many will have to contend at work with openly hostile cliques that exclude anyone who seems at all different?" (page 330)

I think it is the ADULTS who need to be prepared for the challenges of this world - the challenges of listening to, understanding, and respecting children as you would want them to respect you - without resorting to drugs to make your life easier. Too many parents and teachers I know (and I mean that I know personally, not from the boards) live in a perpetual "la la land" where they think they can just make children do anything they want them to do. Well, they can't. I have found the best way to get a child to do what I want is to make him want to do it. If he doesn't want to do it, I need to change my approach, not change the child's brain.