Young for grade - does this apply to my kid?

[ChristaN]

Hi all,

I have (for some time) been giving a lot of thought as to whether we should start our younger dd in kindergarten next year. She misses our local cut-off date by 12 days (her older sister made it by 2 weeks). After much research, I am finding that delaying entry for children who are eligible, even those who just make it (like my older dd), does not seem to be warranted. Much of the research that I am seeing indicates that delaying entry for kids close to the cut-off confers a possible slight advantage for the first few years, but this advantage disappears within a few years & many of these 'held-out' kids actually do worse later than those who started when they were eligible. Some of the articles that I have looked at:

http://www.journal.naeyc.org/btj/200...yingKEntry.pdf

http://www.ecs.org/html/offsite.asp?...sprv16n2%2Epdf

So, all of this has reassured me that we made the right decision with my older dd, but I am not sure whether this applies to my younger dd as she technically would not be a "delayed entry" to kindergarten if we wait another year. Some of what I was reading, however, were studies that found that the middle aged children (those whose bds were in the middle of year) did the best, the youngest children did the next best, and the oldest (whether delayed entry or those who just missed the deadline the year before) did the worst from an academic standpoint. None of the research that I have seen seems to substantiate the idea that older children will do better socially, either.

I am feeling that it would be in her best interest to start kindergarten next year (which we could do at private school), but am not sure if what I am reading about delaying entry for age eligible kids applies to my child who is just slightly missing being age-eligible. Any thoughts?

[annab]

I used to be a big fan of get them in there and get them started, but after talking to so many people who were the youngest in their classes, I have changed my mind. My DH missed the cut off by a few days. In addition, he already was fairly small. His mom was just trying to get him out of the house and he did not have the emotional maturity to be in a classroom. He was in trouble all the time and did not meet the expectations of a classroom, even though his actions and behavior were age appropriate. We was a young boy, and he acted like it. A close friend was intellectually and emotionally ready to be in a classroom. However, when high school came around, she ended up dating and being sexually active much sooner than she may have if she had waited a year. Also, she says it was a huge bummer than everyone was driving before she did.

I think it really depends on your child. I would go ahead with the enrollment; you always can change your mind. I would observe a classroom and ask yourself, "Can my child keep up? Is it reasonable to expect this behavior?" Another factor to consider with the studies is why they were held out in the first place. If they went to kindergarten round-up and could not do all the tasks that they were asked, their being held out may have been school-requested. If that is the case, they may have been behind the eight ball to begin.

In the bigger picture, I am all for letting them be kids as long as they can. Kindergarten is not what it was when we were there. The reading readiness and push to prove oneself on standardized tests is not what I experienced when I was 5/6. It was fun; it was social. It was not at all academic. I would rather she be the oldest in the room, be completely prepared and get an extra year of childhood.

[ChristaN]

annab,

I understand where you are coming from & I believe that this is the mindset of most of the teachers with whom I have spoken as well. However, I have not seen the research to support the idea that holding the child out is of benefit for most children. When I went to look for research to support holding them out (b/c this is the advice that I got with both of my children even from those who had never met or evaluated either child), I found that the research not only doesn't show a positive benefit to being held out, but it shows negative consequences for children who are held out & are thus older (higher drop out rates, higher behavioral problems, worse academic performance, etc.)

I was the youngest as my bd is the cut-off date. For me, I am glad that I wasn't any older b/c I was already bored in school as it was. I do recognize that my children are not me & what worked for me will not work for all kids. Also what research shows in general doesn't always hold true for everyone. None the less, what I am really trying to figure out is whether the research that I have found is applicable to my younger dd who technically would not be a "redshirted" child as the educational researchers so nicely like to put it.

eta:

Re why the children in the studies that I have looked at were held out: Most of the studies found that the children were held out b/c the parents wanted to give them an academic or social advantage or an advantage in high school sports (when they would be bigger & older than the other kids in their grade). Some were held out b/c the teachers had advised that younger children would not do as well or b/c parents had been pressured by the school b/c the school wanted to elevate their test scores & felt that this could be accomplished by having the children be older. I have heard that as well. The principal at my older dd's school told me that the "younger children invariably fail." This comment was based solely on her bd without having ever met my child. She is now academically at the top of her class - in advanced groups for all subjects, so that certainly didn't apply to her.

Actually, one of the articles that I linked indicated that the "redshirted" children (those who were held out an extra year) were, on average, of above average intellegence & were not held out b/c of some problem that would have made kindergarten more difficult for them if they had started on time.

[nfowife]

Just wanted to bring up another concern, as a teacher. At the last school I taught at (I stay home now), we had quite a few kids who just missed the public school cutoff and so their parents opted to start them in private school and then move over to public school the following year. But in our school, it wasn't only a kinder cutoff- you had to be 5 for kinder, 6 for first grade, and so on. I think after first grade it was a moot point but we had the option to put them back in kinder if they didn't qualify for first age-wise. Usually we would allow them to start first grade with the understanding that if it seemed the kiddos weren't ready or didn't have the skills they needed, we had the option to send them back to kinder for the remainder of the year. It didn't happen too often but every once in a while it did, so I wanted to make you aware. You might want to check with your public school about their policies before spending a year's tuition on private school. Cut off dates are pretty arbitrary and it really depends on your DD and her maturity/readiness level. Best of luck!

[ChristaN]

Thanks. I hadn't asked whether they would move her back to kindergarten if she didn't seem to be up to snuff in first grade, specifically. I may need to check on that. Initially the school told me that they would make a child who came from a private school repeat a grade if they were too young for grade regardless of the grade (fifth, sixth, etc.). They eventually backed off on this & I have both the district & the school telling me that they would allow her into first grade if she transferred after completing private kindergarten. I guess that I could always keep her in private school for first grade, as well, but this wouldn't be my first choice since I would like her to not be the "new kid" later in school.

In thinking about it more, it occurred to me that what I ought to be looking at is how children who were academically acelerated (skipped a grade or started early) fared socially and academically rather than looking at how held out children fared compared to those who started when they were age eligible. I'll see what I come up with on that one & maybe it will help me decide.

[Linda KS]

Another thing to consider are her fine motor and gross motor skills. I am a first grade brownie leader and have 2 girls in my troop that should only be in K. They are the worst at everything we do because they just don't have the motor skills. They are both bright kids and their school work isn't an issue, but we aren't sitting around doing math and reading! When a child is pushed up a grade, they are pushed up for everything.

just something to think about.

[philomom]

The practice of holding back before school even starts is called "red shirting". It is very popular in my area. If your child has a late summer or birthday too near the cut-off date; the parents can choose to go next year.
My kids both have winter birthdays so it was not an issue for me personally.
We do know several kids though, that are the biggest and smartest in their grades. You can really see it this helped them master their skills. We also have twins in the neighborhood who have late summer birthdays and their mom wanted to work and she sent them on in. It has proved to be a huge mistake. Her kids are really struggling. Kids are expected to really read in first grade now. Not just learn to read, but be reading.

Hope this helps.

[ChristaN]

Yeah, my older dd is in first grade now, so I am pretty familiar with the expectations. My older one made the cut-off by 2 weeks (she turned 5 about a week into kindergarten last year). For her, it really was the right decision to start her rather than go the "red-shirt" route (gotta love that term!). She was reading a little before she started kindergarten (really basic short stuff), but reading has been easy for her. She is reading chapter books now & one the better readers in her first grade class.

In the reading that I have done regarding redshirting, I personally have come to the conclusion that it may be of benefit early on, but is not in the best interest of most children long term. If my younger one made the cut-off, I absolutely would not hold her back a year. The only reason that I am even considering it is b/c she misses the cut off by 12 days. In the long run, I'm not sure that 12 days makes a big difference, but I don't want to push her too much either.

[joycenjackiesmom]

Christa our district just announced that they are changing the cut off from Sept 15 to Oct 1 beginning next year. They will also waive the first grade cut off if the child attended a public k the year before. Maybe your district will do the same....

[sarasprings]

Hi. I just wanted to add, that although your daughter may be a bit too young, cut-off dates themselves are not standard or researched. I've heard them vary from Aug 31 to Dec 15. I think it really has to be individually decided.

My husband teacher K and at their school, parents have an option of asking for a variance (I'm not sure what the cut-off date is). I have no idea how often they are or aren't honored, but I think they generally are. This year, DH had about 1/4 of his class turn 5 after school started and it was definitely a challenging beginning of the school year because of maturity levels. He says that he's already seen a lot of maturing, but it did make a big difference at the beginning of the year. Of course, there are always kids that are older and are immature for their age, but I know that isn't necessarily the main issue.

[Ruthla]

It really depends on the child.

My oldest dd went to private school for nursury school the first year we lived in this area. I could have put her in K that year (she made the K cutoff at that private school by a few weeks and JUST missed the public school cutoff by 3 days.) We were paying for private school that year anyway- but she simply wasn't ready for Kindergarten at the time, due to family circumstances.

Now, she's nearly 10, in 4th grade, and "could have been" in 5th grade. She's easily bored in school and frustrated by her "immature" classmates. I wouldn't even attempt to switch her now but I do think she would have done well in a higher grade (except for the first few months of K when life was kind of unstable.)

My son was born a few weeks before she turned 7. He started preschool at age 2.75, and at this point, I think he'll start K when he's 4.75. He's very intelligent, and has always been more "evenly matched" socially and developmentally with kids a little bit older than him.

I don't think any of it makes too much difference in the long run. Certainly not after high school!

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I don't think any of it makes too much difference in the long run.

It did occur to me that perhaps I ought to ask jr high & high school teachers since they got to see the long term picture more than early elementary school teachers who were only observing the begining part. My neighbor, who teaches jr high school science, said that she can at times tell who the younger boys are b/c of slow maturation issues with boys & physical size & if she were a boy she'd say to wait. She said that she has no idea who the younger or older girls in her classes are, though. One more piece of input, I guess.

[robugmum]

We really struggled with this issue when trying to decide what to do this September. Where I live the cut off date is always Dec. 31st. So all the kids born during a given calendar year are supposed to be in the same grade. My son was born in November of '99 so he started K this year. We seriously considered having him do another year of preschool. I was worried that he would be one of the youngest kids in his class but, as it turns out, a full third or more of his classmates all have November and December birthdays. What a relief! Because he goes to a very small neighbourhood school, he'll be with this same group of kids all the way till grade 7, unless we move. My dd's birthday is actually even later, Dec. 30th, so she will most definitely be the youngest in her class. Funnily enough, I don't worry as much about her, except when I think about starting high school (grade 8 here) at age 12!! YIKES!

[PikkuMyy]

I was a red-shirter with 1st grade and spent most of my school years bored academically. I already knew how to read, write, etc. by first grade and in second grade, used different text and workbooks from my classmates since I already knew the work. So it was easy. (Private school)

What was the result? That I learned that I didn't have to even try to get As and still be at the top of my class. Then when I changed schools to another private high school that was more challenging than my previous school, I did not have the study and work habits to keep up even though it was the right fit academically.

I wish that I had been challenged in my younger years. I realize that maybe this wouldn't have happened had I gone to the more challenging school from 1st grade on, and that I am at the high end of academic performance (not gifted but nearing there) so it's a little unique. Still, I would probably start my children, should I decide not to homeschool, early since I know they will be learning a lot ahead of time from DH (gifted, also dropped out of high school from boredom) and I.

[ChristaN]

Pikkumyy,

Your post sounds exactly like me, except I actually was one of the youngest in my grade. My bd is Sept. 15th (the cutoff here in Colorado) & a few months before the cut off out there in CA. We lived in both states when I was child. I started kindergarten as I was turning 5.

I know that, if I had been held back, it would have been even worse. I took all honors classes throughout school & some college courses in highschool. None the less, all I had to do was show up to get straight As & my study habits sucked by the time I got to Berkeley as an undergrad. It really hurt me in college. By grad school I did great as I was more mature, focused & had a baby to keep me in check.

However, I know that my girls are not me, so I am really trying not to put my experiences on my children. How I responded may not be how they respond. It is so hard to know what it right for them not just what was right for me.

[BusyMommy]

As a K teacher, wait! :LOL

Unless, of course, she's exceptionally mature and is familiar w/the school environment; ie. visiting her sister's class.

Girls, though, seem to struggle less than boys. Odd, isn't it.

[Peony]

It definately depends on the child. I barely made the cutoff, I was one of the youngest children in my grade. It certainly affected me, I remember always wanting to be older. I didn't struggle in school, (except for math ) until high school. I had a really hard time fitting in with all the older kids, I was always the baby of the group, and no one ever let me forget it. I did act out sexually, and experiment quite a bit. My parents ended up pulling me out of public school, and I homeschooled the rest of of high school years. I ened up graduating high school at 16, and graduated from college at 19, so I certainly did have the drive to excel. DH skipped a grade and became the youngest in his class, and it didn't bother him at all. Although, he was smart enough to get by without actually learning anything, he got a 4.0 without trying.

[Kirsten]

Cutoff where we live is August 31st - so they are actually five before school starts the first week of September.

All three of my girls are summer birthdays so are young in their classes. I go by "if they make the cutoff, send them - if they don't, don't". Whether they make it (or not) by one day or 100, we follow the cutoff. It has to be somewhere and it is where it is for your area. Unless you are planning to move to an area with a different cutoff, I would stick with it.

I think there can be issues with younger, less mature kids starting but the kids that are older in the school year (at least in my experience) have it much easier in all ways. Good luck deciding.

[Electra375]

In my experience with my own children, it depends on the child's readiness. My ds1 was born Oct 26, 1998. He started Montessori school just before he turned 3. Last year he was in his 3rd year of primary at Montessori, for most children this would be "kindergarten". I had him moved up to the kindergarten Sunday School class as well last school year.
Technically this school year he was elidigible for kindergarten within our PS system (sept 30th is the cut off). Since he had already completed a kindergarten program and I felt he met all the state's Kindergarten Standards of Learning, I looked into having him test out of kindergarten. He passed with flying colors and is doing nicely in 1st grade. Socially and acedemically he fits. He was 5 starting 1st grade and turned 6 in October.

I can't imagine what he would be like if he were only in 1/2 day kindergarten. He is bored some of the time now in 1st grade. I really feel that he is wasting 7 hours of his day at school. I'm not happy having pulled him out of Montessori, but I could find $6500 to keep him in. Socially he needs to be around his peers, but acedemically he does better with the Montessori approach and I feel the standard acedemic approach by PS is holding him back.

I fear laziness and poor study habits that come with easy work. I look to my sister, father and dh for examples of this negative behavior trait.

As for my ds2, I would not advance him if he were born after the cut off. He is a different child and just doesn't display the readiness even for Montessori school (he is currently a 31 mo old, 2 1/2). Fortunately, he is an April baby and I need not to debate that issue.

OP - you know your dd better than anyone. Is she ready? Does she display a desire? What have you done with her at home in the way of acedemics? Does she socialize well with others? Is she an outward or an inward child?

If you were to start her in a kindergarten program at a private school and she didn't finish the year out with a bang, you could have her repeat kindergarten in the public school. If she started 1st grade in PS and it was apparent that it wasn't working out, then you move her back. When they are this young it is easy to move them back than when they are older like my neighbor who's child should have repeated 1st grade, but is now repeating 2nd grade instead.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Electra375

OP - you know your dd better than anyone. Is she ready? Does she display a desire? What have you done with her at home in the way of acedemics? Does she socialize well with others? Is she an outward or an inward child?

Tessa is less assertive/outgoing than her older sister (who just made the cutoff). However, she is also much less sensitive. My older one describes herself as a "sponge" & Tessa as a "duck," so I believe that she won't be as bothered by social stuff as Angelina (my older one) is. I don't think that she will be the leader socially (my older one tends to be a bit of leader), but she can stand her own & plays with older kids (sister's friends) a lot. Basically, I don't think that her basic personality characteristics are going to change if I hold her back a year.

Academically, I am fairly sure that she will be ready. She goes to pre-k, was in preschool last year & her school has prepared her pretty well. We are working on letters at home & she is starting to read, not well, but she can sound out & read basic stuff. Given that she just turned 4 two months ago, I am confident in her academics. It seems like some kids just "get" reading & others take a bit longer. Tessa really seems to get it. Reading seems to be the big focus here in kindergarten & first grade.