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"SAHM jobs" vs. SAH full-time - Page 3

post #41 of 89
Faith, I do understand what you are trying to say, I am also a SAHM and plan on being one for a looong time because my children will be homeschooled. I think you have however, missed my point.


I think you should not judge her because she made the choice she did.

Peace
post #42 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
This is more than sematics, though sematics are important becase saying a daycare worker is raising a child is, in addition to being incorrect, perjorative and hurtful to the millions of wohp who are raising thier kids by a different method but to the same degree that you are rasing yours.
Why? Don't we always go on about how it "takes a village" to raise a child. A childcare provider is part of that village. I can understand it being a hurtful comment if it's put forth in the manner of, "You're not even raising your own child - you have a childcare provider doing it for you." But a childcare provider helping you to raise your child? If that's offensive to a person, that person should probably evaluate why they take offense to such a statement, because there's something more deeply rooted there.

My child spends time with me, his father (separate from me), and a good bit of time with my mother and stepfather. I absolutely think that my mother and stepfather are helping to raise my son. They have considerable influence on him. I also think that the friends we hang out with on a daily basis who interact on more than a superficial level with my child are helping to raise him. They're all influencing his world view, his self-esteem, his manner of being.

No skin off my teeth.
post #43 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipperump-a-zoomum
You could start by writing your senators and representative and asking them to re-examine the welfare to work act. They seem to think that poor mothers should not have the option to stay home with their children. Then you could lobby congress to provide a living wage to women who wish to stay home with their children, replete with social security benefits and healthcare.
Great ideas!
post #44 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Why? Don't we always go on about how it "takes a village" to raise a child. A childcare provider is part of that village. I can understand it being a hurtful comment if it's put forth in the manner of, "You're not even raising your own child - you have a childcare provider doing it for you." But a childcare provider helping you to raise your child? If that's offensive to a person, that person should probably evaluate why they take offense to such a statement, because there's something more deeply rooted there.
I did not SAH for ds1 and I felt that part of my job as a parent was choosing someone who I felt comfortable with helping me raise my child. I think why that comment about someone else raising your child is so hurtful sometimes is b/c it implies that the parent is doing nothing. When infact, choosing someone to be with your child is a huge responsiblity. I am all about it taking a village even now that I SAH with my children. My family and friends definetely play a part in it. Though at the same time, it is important for parents to take main responsibility.

I find it very elitist to say that one MUST stay home with their dc. I agree with those who mentioned doing something proactive to help our society be more SAHP friendly, but the reality is that it is very difficult for many people to do. Even though I provide some childcare for others for added income, it is still tight for us to pay our bills. That said, it is a beautiful thing when a mother can be a full time SAHM and it is equally beautiful for a parent to make being with their children (quantity and quality) a big priority regardless of their work status.
post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
But a childcare provider helping you to raise your child? If that's offensive to a person, that person should probably evaluate why they take offense to such a statement, because there's something more deeply rooted there.

My child spends time with me, his father (separate from me), and a good bit of time with my mother and stepfather. I absolutely think that my mother and stepfather are helping to raise my son. They have considerable influence on him. I also think that the friends we hang out with on a daily basis who interact on more than a superficial level with my child are helping to raise him. They're all influencing his world view, his self-esteem, his manner of being.

No skin off my teeth.
Notice how you always say "helping raise." I noticed the earlier poster wrote that two. What a world of difference it makes to say "they are helping raise" or "influencing" and to say "they are raising."

I find saying "a childcare working is raising your child" offensive even though I don't have kids yet and when I do I plan on being a sahm as my mom was a sahm. So nope, nothing more deeply rooted there.
post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Notice how you always say "helping raise." I noticed the earlier poster wrote that two. What a world of difference it makes to say "they are helping raise" or "influencing" and to say "they are raising."

I find saying "a childcare working is raising your child" offensive even though I don't have kids yet and when I do I plan on being a sahm as my mom was a sahm. So nope, nothing more deeply rooted there.
Yup. Very different.

I imagine that the WOH partners of SAHPs would not like the implication that they are not raising their children.
post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain
The way I see it, my dd can spend time with me; I love her and accept her unconditionally. Or, she could be in daycare with a wonderful person whose love could never touch the realm of my love for her...No matter how wonderful the person, it is still a cash deal. No matter how much they love the child, they are still being paid to do it. It just seems like such a bad vibe to intrust those babies for a wage for so many hours every weekday


Did I really read this correctly? Yikes.
post #48 of 89
why oh why does it always turn this way????????????????????????
post #49 of 89
Thread Starter 
Okay, I just started this thread because my *only SAHM friend within driving distance is no longer only SAH. I think there is pressure (like I allready said) to not be "just" a SAHM, but to also sell things on ebay/volunteer 3x a week/whatever- just as long as you are doing *anything in addition to raising your DC.



I don't see at all how AP fits in with paying someone else to spend time with your child. I just don't and never will. Another caregiver can't nurse your DC, can't love and care for them the way only a mother would- and that's what I think my DC deserve. If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm not going to hang out just to argue about it. I am adult enough to realize we all have our own opinions.
post #50 of 89
Quote:
It just seems like such a bad vibe to intrust those babies for a wage for so many hours every weekday
You know, I'm a nanny and while I don't watch the kids every day, there's no "bad vibe." However, I'm totally against daycare for my own kids, partly because of my own experience being a nanny and working in a daycare center. It's not because of bad things that can happen. It's because of all the good things. With the kids I watch, I'm the one doing everything with them (except for the one family I work for that uses other care very rarely). With my own kids, I want to be the one with them, seeing all the cool things they do.
post #51 of 89
To the OP- yes, it should be ok to "just SAH". And- clearly it is- for you.

I have a WAH business b/c I have to- and b/c I want to. I also do lots of volunteer work- which is clearly a "want to" thing.

When I did "just SAH" I was not happy- not b/c society at large made me feel that way, I just did feel that way.

I have never used a sitter in almost 5 years of parenting. My kids are with me and/or dh over 99% of the time and with my own mama less than 1% of the time. That is what works for us. I have chosen volunteer work that I can bring my kids with me, and my WAH jobs don't take me from my kids either.

Truth be told, I don't know many mamas who "just SAH", most of my mama friends do some work for money (from home or out of home) and many volunteer with their dc in tow.

I think the most important part of your post is to validate that your choice to "just SAH" is a valid one . Just try not to take offense that that wasn't "working" for your friend. She's a good mama, and so are you.
post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
No I don't agree with you. A Parent staying home with kids is not universally preferable to kids in childcare. Breast is universally preferable to formula (though some parents have to feed thier kids formula for one reason or another).

Apples and oranges.

I'm glad you found what works for your family. Because it wirks for your family does not mean it is the best way.

Yes, women need more support and options and choices, with that I agree.

It is the best way if it works for your family. Its not comparing apples to oranges but close. What works for our family is me being home with our DD. It also worked best to Extendbf as well as letting her decide when finished. I do not see a lot of my peers doing that (excluding my friends at mothering of course!) or that it would work for them. But their children are no worse off because of it. To each his own.
I also have seen many children in the company of both their caretaker as well as the company of their parents. A good portion of the time they are better off with the caretaker person than with their parents. I think some people belong at work and have someone else taking care of their children. Maybe they should not have had children but I guess thats too late to change now
isn't it?

Its a shame we have to go back & forth like this instead of supporting one another for the choice that is in fact best for thier family. :
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
Okay, I just started this thread because my *only SAHM friend within driving distance is no longer only SAH. I think there is pressure (like I allready said) to not be "just" a SAHM, but to also sell things on ebay/volunteer 3x a week/whatever- just as long as you are doing *anything in addition to raising your DC.
I don't see at all how AP fits in with paying someone else to spend time with your child. I just don't and never will. Another caregiver can't nurse your DC, can't love and care for them the way only a mother would- and that's what I think my DC deserve. If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm not going to hang out just to argue about it. I am adult enough to realize we all have our own opinions.
Gee Faith, I hope I don't meet you in a darkened alley and you want to see my AP, SAHM credentials! :

I will tell you how AP fits in with paying someone to be with my child. I have a mother's helper the last 2 summers come over a morning a week and play with DD. I got so much done and DD loved being with this wonderful 13 yr old. She now babysits for us at night once in a while. This way DH and I can get out and be husband and wife which is what we were BEFORE DD came and will always be after DD grows up. We want to be this way since this is what created DD. Also we both practice AP- the only thing DH has never done for her is nurse her! (even though she tried at 3 days old and got a nipple on his chest and owwww! from her Daddy)
We also have DD spend time with both sets of grandparents. Sometimes with us, sometimes without. She is very close with both as well as other extended family.
Forgive your tupperware friend for not living up to your AP SAHM standards and wanting to do something for herself so when shes away, she can think of her family and then go home and be a great wife and mom. Who knows, maybe she will recruit you too!
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
If I also have my neighbors two kids here during that time (cooking for them, listening to them, answering their big & little questions, reading to them, discplining them, helping them go potty, etc...), what am I doing? I call it helping raise them. I might even be doing *more* of it than their own parents are, by the time they get here to pick them up at six and have them in bed by nine.

I saw most of them way more than their own moms did. I kissed their boo-boos, held them, sung them to sleep.... *These two-year-olds were being raised, no matter who was there doing it!* Children are beng raised 24/7, and don't stop just because their mom isn't around.

All my OP was about was that IT IS OKAY to ONLY SAH!!!
Now that the OP has been so amazingly condescending and self-righteous I see that she has fled the building. Good for her that is OKAY to ONLY SAH...I guess tough $h!t for everyone else that she has decided that it isn't okay to do anything else. We better all hurry home so that we can be good moms like she is...I would hate to be letting someone else raise my child after all.

Of course, I haven't seen hide nor hair of the preschool teachers that are "raising" her for me when she is vomiting in the middle of the night, needs new shoes or clothes, is being taught a moral lesson of any kind, has a nightmare, or needs to be sat with so she can fall asleep at night. I also don't see them spending a lot of time worrying how their choices of discipline, health, and parenting will impact her future. I didn't see them in the room when I was giving birth. I haven't ever seen any of them feeding her from their own bodies. I didn't see them doing research about vaccinations, schooling, organic food, cloth diapers, or anything else for that matter. I don't see them planning how to impart the morals that will give her guidance in her later years. I don't see them planning family vacations to expose her to other cultures in the world. I don't see them lying awake at night planning potty training or birthday parties. I don't see them trying to keep her safe from media influences or violence. I don't see them spending a lot of time making sure that she has a balanced and nutritious diet. I don't see them disciplining her in a way that will truly teach her something as opposed to solving a problem in the short term. I don't see them teaching her what it means to be an open-minded, intelligent, and independent woman. I don't see them saving money for her college, choosing the best possible care for her when they can't be around, planning her schooling, taking her to museums, spending hours reading her stories, or even giving her their complete and undivided attention. I don't see their hearts break when she is sad or hurt.

I was a nanny for four children for three years. I was with them 4 days a week from 7am until their father got home at 6pm. At the time, before I had children, I thought that I spent so much time with them, that I was in effect raising them, that I loved them just as much as I would someday love my own children. Guess what? I was an idiot. When I got sick and stayed home it wasn't me who juggled their schedules around to be there. When they were sick it wasn't me who was up with them all night, or who was home with them mopping up vomit. When I got the chance to attend a good college on scholarship I just went. I didn't have to plan for the future of the children I had been watching. I wasn't their parent. I had my own life and it didn't involve raising or worrying about four children. Not once did I have to worry about how my actions today might impact the rest of their lives. And guess what? Even though their mother worked a lot of hours when she came home they ran through that house like crazy people to get to her. They loved her with a love that I never even came close to. And she loved them back. They never questioned who their mother was, who was raising them. And neither does our daughter. I guess that children are just smarter than most adults.

Well, seeing as I am ranting all over the place and am obviously too angry to respond as eloquently as others already have I suppose that for now I better away.

Sheer idiocy and ignorance. Few things piss me off more.
post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole77
Sheer idiocy and ignorance. Few things piss me off more.

Thank you.....
post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by owen&mama
Thank you.....
post #57 of 89
Thread Starter 
I almost laughed when I read some of these heated responses. Jeez- me wishing it was more PC to only SAH made some of you lose it. Calm down and just take the OP for what it was and don't read your own agenda/guilt into it, okay?

I am allowed to my own opinion, and I believe that a SAHM is best. If you are soooo okay with not just SAH, then why are you blowing up? I don't even care... I was just venting a bit about society in general, not out to listen to people tell me how right they are in really childish ways... Grow up.
Why would I want to stay here and listen to that?
post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
I almost laughed when I read some of these heated responses. Jeez- me wishing it was more PC to only SAH made some of you lose it. Calm down and just take the OP for what it was and don't read your own agenda/guilt into it, okay?

I am allowed to my own opinion, and I believe that a SAHM is best. If you are soooo okay with not just SAH, then why are you blowing up? I don't even care... I was just venting a bit about society in general, not out to listen to people tell me how right they are in really childish ways... Grow up.
Why would I want to stay here and listen to that?
Right, so if we took issue with your post it is because we are guilty and defensive and usnure of our own decisions? Well, I'm not a mom yet and when I am I plan to be a sahm, but I still that that sahm is only "best" for for some, for some it isn't at all best.

Also, while society is hard on sahm, it is super hard on wohm; it isn't anymore pc to wohm than it is to sahm. Our society is very screwed about women's work and so upholds and degrades mothing at the same time. In other words, the focus of your frustration is misguided. It isn't at soceity telling women to do more than mother (because women who do more than just mother are told they should just mother), it is at society's misogeny.
post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Also, while society is hard on sahm, it is super hard on wohm; it isn't anymore pc to wohm than it is to sahm. Our society is very screwed about women's work and so upholds and degrades mothing at the same time. In other words, the focus of your frustration is misguided. It isn't at soceity telling women to do more than mother (because women who do more than just mother are told they should just mother), it is at society's misogeny.
Wow.


post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
I am allowed to my own opinion, and I believe that a SAHM is best. If you are soooo okay with not just SAH, then why are you blowing up? I don't even care... I was just venting a bit about society in general, not out to listen to people tell me how right they are in really childish ways... Grow up.
Why would I want to stay here and listen to that?
I didn't blow up. I do not think it was childish nor was anyone else's response. If anything it was childish for YOU to judge anyone for taking time to spend away from children for earning $$ to live, get on ebay, sell tupperware, etc.
Grow up yourself...
Please remember how you got the children and love your partner. I once heard someone I worked with say "My wife left me for my children" I was a wife before I had DD and I will always be her mother. But she needs to see her parents loving each other and their marriage. She also needs to see a happy, confident, and loving mother. You should have an outside interest so your children know you are also a person as well. This way while growing up they know that you were not put on this earth to serve them but to mother them which includes making sure your needs are also taken care of. You need to save yourself before you can save them. This is why you friend is selling tupperware- for her. Believe me, its not enough money to think she is demoralizing herself by giving into society. Or maybe she really likes the product and wants the discount.
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