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"SAHM jobs" vs. SAH full-time - Page 5

post #81 of 89
Originally Posted by Faith
We all agree BFing is best if at all possible, so why not SAH, if that is at all possible? Honestly, I don't understand that. Surely no one is out there argueing for formula and daycares..?
Breastfeeding and stay at home mothering are not equivalent issues at all. Breastfeeding is biologically the healthiest way for most babies to eat, and has been since humans have existed. Mothers being with their children all of the time is, in contrast, a relatively new phenomenon. Many, many children have spent a great deal of time in the care of someone besides mom, often but not always another relative. The idea of mother as a fulltime caregiver is not the way it's generally been. In tribal societies, any lactating mother might care for a nursing child, and a slightly older child would generally be in the care of an older sibling or elderly relative while the mother worked, often either gathering food or preparing it, sometimes quite a distance away.

We don't live that way anymore, clearly. Still, I don't agree with the idea that to raise your child, you must spend all of your time with him. The mother in the original post was planning a very, very part-time job, and even that was unacceptable to you?

I believe that children can be truly happy and thrive even if they spend time in the care of someone besides their mother. If you believed this, what would that mean to you, and to the choices you've made? Are you happy with the life you've chosen, or are you not happy staying at home fulltime and so trying to justify that unhappiness to yourself by believing that any other choice would harm your child?

post #82 of 89
Originally Posted by Faith
I just have a feeling this isn't going to come out right, but I will try...

I would like to thank everyone who took what I said in my OP at face value and didn't get all upset.

I admit I am confused. I have learned a *lot* here at MDC about tolerance and respect... maybe I have more to learn...

Seriously, why is it okay when a lot of us here get upset to see a friend not even try BFing, just because she didn't feel like it... But not okay for us to feel upset when a SAHM 'quits' and gets another job? I honestly don't understand that. We all agree BFing is best if at all possible, so why not SAH, if that is at all possible? Honestly, I don't understand that. Surely no one is out there argueing for formula and daycares..? We say "whatever works best for your family" or "be true to yourself" but we don't really mean it, or we would believe formula, CIO, circumcision, spanking, yelling, endless hours in a play pen, etc, would be wonderful as the family was doing the best for them and being true...
Do you see what I am saying, even if you don't agree?

Also, there is nothing wrong with my feelings from my OP. I don't go into 'working mothers' and tell them they are wrong... so I think it's rather innapropriate for non-SAHMs to come here to my SAHM thread IF they can't be supportive. I'm sure a WOHM who was the only WOHM in her area wouldn't like for me to crash her thread and be all negative.

Anyway, I just don't agree that someone can mother/raise their child if they are not with their child. It just doesn't happen like that. You simply can't care for a person you are not with. I don't think for a second that if I handed my baby off right now to someone else and went out, that I would be caring for him/mothering him/raising him/whatever when I was gone. I'm not there to comfort him, to feed him, to change him, to hold him, to know his cues like only a mommy can. That is just a fact. I don't see how that point can even be argued, but it seems like some of you are trying. Sure, I am still his mother when I am gone, but I am not *mothering* him when I am gone. I see a huge difference.

In all sencerity, none of this is meant to offend. I am just trying to explain my feelings and thoughts. I am not anti-WOHMs. My awesome MW is one, my aunt (who I love more than my own mom) worked by choice from six weeks old with both her DC, etc. But I am still allowed to have my opinion that SAH is best for DC, just like AP and BF... I wasn't attacking anyone's opinion- just society's attitude in general- about we SAHMs needing to be "more," as if there is anything that could be "more" than raising my wonderful DC.


i have not read all the threads. but i understand what you are trying to say here. i think alot of people agree with the concept of staying at home, or we would not have so many sahms.

studies were done that show the number of women leaving the worforce to stay at home with a child is on the rise. most of the mothers i know have left the worforce to stay with their baby. times are changing.

i personallly could care less if a mom works. i am more concerned with other things like why are over 50% of boys still being circ?
post #83 of 89
"Mothering will never get the respect it deserves until all mothers learn to respect one another. It's a plain and simple fact."- Laura
I do not respect all mothers. Or fathers. Uncles, aunts, grandparents, sisters, brothers. Simply because someone has a child/got pregnant/adopted doesn't earn my respect. I don't respect all animals because they have offspring, either. Procreation doesn't make someone respect worthy.

There are many mothers who harm children and I do not respect those mothers. The mothers who follow Ezzo, spank, wash with soap, hot sauce, etc., no I do not respect those mothers. There is no nobility in whitewashing abuse so that all mothers are respected upon birthing/adopting. Children aren't respected in that equation either.

I'm not aiming to be respected. That is a waste of time and typically, lip service with no power (read: money) behind it. I am working (with money and time) toward a better system (in the US) for mothers (as Mothering Mag has talked about here and elsewhere).

Frankly, this bit about 'it's none of your business' gets old. A lot of griping about no 'village' to support moms and take the kids off her hands but not wanting any of the loss of privacy and intrusion that is a natural part of the village. If the village doesn't like your style of parenting or thinks that you aren't mothering in the right way, then you are going to hear about it. Don't want the up-for-comment life? Then don't romanticize the village.

I'm thrilled that it is more common to go it alone in terms of parenting. I never would want the village style, much too limiting and opressive for me. I'm glad to have solitude, privacy and yes, lots of time with my kids and no expectation to nurse or care for other kids in the neighborhood or extended family. I want to parent differently than extended family and the natural village in my world. Thank ghord I can without too much suffering. Living in Zimbabwe and having my one year old go to another mama to live if I were pregnant with another child - no thanks. But that's how it's done. Or in parts of Africa where hitting children is expected, normal, natural. No thanks. I'd much rather leave the community, parent alone. When moms or anyone else doesn't respect me, it makes no difference in my mothering or life vision. I see 'respect' for moms - have a Happy Mother's Day, get a special food rub, a box of chocolates, flowers for 'all her hard work' and doing The Most Important Job in the World. Feh.
post #84 of 89
Asherah You managed to say everything I wanted to say (but couldn't in my pain-med addled, angry mind!) so perfectly. I could not agree with you more. I think MDC has become one of the last places I go where I am actually expected to use my "appropriate mama" label. I belong to a local Mothers and More chapter and we are actually able to have discussions on respecting the work of all mamas without it mattering in the slightest who in the group is a sahm, wohm, wahm, blah, blah, blah. It is a breath of fresh air to be in a place where it could not matter less.

Faith, I cannot even be angry at you anymore. You have just hit a new level of ugliness, patheticness, and bigotry in what you said and I now officially feel sorry for you. I sincerely hope that your world is able to continue on the way that you want it to so that you do not one day face the judgement that you so happily heap on others.

Such a waste.
post #85 of 89
Originally Posted by Dar
Breastfeeding and stay at home mothering are not equivalent issues at all.

I totally agree. Good point.

And Asherah, you rock.
post #86 of 89
Originally Posted by asherah

I am a mother. Period....

I think this whole SAHM/WOHM dichotomy is false.. and does nothing but divide. The emphasis on it ensures that MOTHERwork.. women's work.. will never get the respect it deserves.

Maybe we could focus on how important parenting is, period. Regardless of what combination of parenting and working a family relies on. I think that only then will parenting have a chance of getting the respect it deserves for being the challenging and critically important work that it is.

It really is not about whether a mother works for a paycheck or not. Women have always worked and mothered at the same time. Women did, and probably still do in many places, make their families clothes, make the cloth for clothes, make the yarn, can the food, work the fields, feed the animals, and sell the food and other goods they produce at market. They and their children worked, and many likely still do around the world, as servants for those wealthier than they. Many worked as slaves, and many still do. Many were wet nurses who left their own kids in someone else's care to nurse the babes of wealthy women. It's not new. What is new is the modern economy where so many women go off to offices or factories or stores to work, where often women don't have extended family and friends to help with child care, and where mothers are criticized whether they stay home full time or work outside the home.
post #87 of 89
Thread Starter 
Ashera, settle down. I am not anything like you said. I am not even upset. Why would I be?

If anything, I feel sorry for people in this thread who don't even realize what they are missing by not being there for their DC, and who can only respond by getting incredibly mean when others don't agree with them.

Just breathe... It's okay... You don't have to be so angry that not everyone is like you. Sure I had a small vent in the OP, but some of you are jumping up and down! Some of you seem pretty mad for such 'open-minded' people...

I will leave you to your rants...
post #88 of 89
Faith, you can't change what you don't acknowledge. You won't acknowledge how condescending you are in your posts. It is like everyword you type, you add a swift backhand to it. You are extriemly closed minded and hurtful. It is actually mothers like you who are dividing our sisterhood with your attitude.
post #89 of 89
I'm closing this thread for administrative review.
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