Have to Face Up

[bwylde]

I was doing so well but the past month, I've come to the realization I have PPD. I don't have it really bad, which is a relief, but I am starting to feel like it may get worse.

Bit of background...I had PPD really bad after DS was born. It was the most horrible, darkest time of my life, and I've been through a lot. I can hardly remember him as a baby. I saw a counciller, which did not help. She ended up calling social sevices on us because we had "anger problems" (DH and I were both having feelings of anger, which we didn't act on but she felt were a problem). So I had to sneak home, take the baby, pack our bags and not tell DH where we were going and why. We were gone for a week without DH knowing what was going on and nothing ever came of it which they knew that day but failed to tell me : . So I stopped going and just dealt with it on my own.

I don't have a doctor of any sort, we can't afford for me to go on meds, I am very leery of self refering myself back to the mental health clinic for fear of something like the above happening again as it made things worse. I am open and willing to take a natural route, but don't know where to start (I have St. John's Wort, but not sure how much to take).

Right now, the problem is being made worse by the fact I am nursing my two kids practically 24/7, I am getting literally no sleep and it hurts to nurse (we're getting over thrush, but now I have deeply cracked and blistered nipples that nothing seems to help, probalby because someone is on them all the time ). I keep thinking if I wean DS things will be better, but in my heart of hearts, I don't want to. I believe in child led weaning. Nursing DD doesn't bother me as she'll nurse 5-10 minutes, 30 minutes at the very, very longest on a rare occasion and will go 3 or so hours in between, but DS will nurse for hours at a time, asking to constantly, touching me when he nurses, which really bothers me. I just want to scream and cry when he is pawing all over me, so I'll just move his hands and ask him nicely to stop. If he wants to nurse and I dont' right away, he has a horrible temper tantrum and will kick, scream, hit and just go ballistic. He's high needs like this in every regard and it's just sucking the living life out of me. I'm being beaten down by a two year old

I can't get anything done. We're moving soon and I have nothing done; the house looks like a tornado hit it. I'm also concerned because we'll be living in an apartment (we live in a house how) what will the neighbors think when they hear him throwing tantrums all hours. I'm so frustrated, worn out and I just want to lay down and cry myself to sleep.

DH helps as much as he can, our families will sometimes take DS for a few hours (mom is taking him tonight overnight, bless her heart, although I can totally picture her bringing him back at 2 in the morning). When anyone has DS, DD becomes totally needy and I just want a break!!

Earlier I did have a bit of a break down. I just bawled and bawled and was so angry I thought I would burst. I took it out on the dishes and eventually calmed down, but I just needed some release. (I was angry because DS had just spent more than an hour nursing after I just got done nursing DD and I had nursed him for about a half an hour before that. There's so much I needed to do and have been unable. Right now I'm saying "the heck with the stuff I need done!!! I'll do it later.")

I know this is a lot, but I just don't know where to go from here. I need more me time. I need sleep. I need help getting things together. I needed to get this out and I'm so grateful I was able to. I'm feeling better. Like I said, it's not a bad depression, but enough to affect the quality of my life. I think today was the worst I've felt so far.

[bwylde]

Ok, in retrospect, I sound really hostile towards my son. I'm really not. I love him so much; I love my kids and my husband more than anything. It's the behaviors I don't like and wish I could change but nothing seems to help. I have Sear's Dicipline book and Kids Are Worth It by Coloroso, but maybe I need a refresher.

DS can be the sweetest little boy in the world. He's been high needs since birth and I'm just exhausted. I sometimes wonder if I ever truly overcame my PPD with him, except this time, I feel more joy. I have some really up times and can have fun with my kids; with my PPD with DS, it was near impossible to feel joy.

[Jish]

I didn't feel like you were being hard on your ds in your first post. It is totally natural to feel frustrated with your older child after you have a second. Especially an older child that is pretty high needs.

I know that this is going to sound insane, but have you been exercising? I'm guessing that the answer is no. I was terrible about exercising after I got pregnant with my third ds. I finally got back into it the beginning of September and it has made a huge difference in my mood and anxiety level. I was beginning to wonder if the PPD was perhaps returning (my ds3 is 8 months old) then it sort of went away. I was glad, of course, and realized that it disappeared shortly after I started working out again.

I'm very realistic in my exercise goals. I shoot for at least three and hopefully four times a week of good cardio. When I started I got a Denise Austin video that has two workouts of about 25 minutes each. I began by doing just one of the workouts three or four times a week. I found that I had to make time to do it, and I didn't really enjoy it, but it helped my mental health. I now have switched to doing an hour of step arobics three to four times a week and I enjoy it much more. It takes much more time because it's longer, and I can't just towel off afterwards like I was able to with the 25 minute workout. Now, I have to shower after each workout. I really wish that I could work out 7 days a week for an hour a day, but it just isn't realistic right now. I can't work my life, housework, laundry, kids, etc, around an hour and a half that it takes for the workout and to get cleaned up. I have to give myself permission to be content with just the three to four times a week now, so I don't feel guilty about not having enough time for everything. Its enough to keep my body and mind on track.

There are several old threads about natural remedies that you should check out for ideas. There's lots of good information there.

I hope you are feeling better soon.

[bwylde]

Thanks for the reply. You probably already know my answer is no about the exercise : . Between trying to keep sane and packing, I haven't felt like it and I think my exercise tapes are packed up somewhere. After we move we're going to be in a great area for walking (lots of places and our favorite parks nearby) and I know all the walking/playing/fresh air will really help. I've been trying to stretch, but it's not enough.

I'll have to look up the threads about natural remedies. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

I've been a lot better the last couple of days. I think just admitting it helps a lot, really gets it out there and lets you face it. The kids are sleeping slightly better but I'll probably have a hard time sleeping until everyone in the house sleeps all night, I'm such a light sleeper.

[Oh the Irony]

Hey mama--hugs to you. Hope you feel better soon. I do think admitting the problem is a big step. Exercise is good, cutting out sugar and writing in a journal are some no cost "aids". If that does't work, please try to get some more help.

[Jish]

How are you hanging in there, Carla, after the busy weekend?

[bwylde]

Hi . I'm not doing too bad. The kids and I have been sick, so it's been kind of rough dealing with all that. DS gets more hyper and all DD and I want to do is cuddle in bed, but I'm hanging on. I'm so tired.

We finally know when we're moving (the 17th) so it's nice to be able to plan that a little better. We see the place tommorow, which will be a relief. That has been weighing heavily on my mind as I was scared there wouldn't be enough time to get everything in the house done, but I think we can swing it.

I've been keeping pretty busy, which helps. We've talked a lot about and started changing our eating habits and that helps as well. We all want to eat more healthily, which clears the body and mind. I'm a work in progress, but I know I'll "get there" soon

[OnTheFence]

I may get beat up or get hate mail about what I am fixing to post. I do want to say that 1) I have had PPD severely and 2) I am probreastfeeding.

I think that the nursing routine you have is playing apart in your PPD. I think your son is taking advantage of you and that nursing for him is more of a discipline issue and control issue than one of need or comfort. I have seen this all too many times and its really sad. While you may believe in child led weaning, its okay to say NO to your DS and limit his nursing. You do not have to be a slave or pushover to your children and their demands. Its also okay to modify your beliefs and even encourage him to wean, allowing yourself the freedom to relax and breathe, even to have your body to yourself for even a short time.

[Jish]

I agree with you in theory. I do think that it is okay to place limits on breastfeeding with older nurslings. I don't think that it negates our desire to have child led weaning. Setting limits doesn't equal weaning. While infants should nurse on demand, there comes a time when our children get a bit older that nursing them on demand may not be workable for us. I'm sure that some who firmly believe in total child led weaning might think that is awful, but every situation and family is different and PPD makes things a whole other ballgame. We have to remember that we can't possibly know what it's like in others houses.

However, I think It's extremely difficult to make statements such as this

I think your son is taking advantage of you and that nursing for him is more of a discipline issue and control issue than one of need or comfort.

without knowing the child, the family or the situation. Some children simply NEED more touch, they need more time with a parent, they need to nurse more than some children. I agree that this mama shouldn't feel guilty about setting limits on her ds's nursing, but that she needs to take her child's needs into consideration also. I don't doubt in any way that her ds's need to nurse is a control issue. Young children have very little control in their lives. Her ds's life has just been changed in a huge way. He has to find a way to cope with all the changes and to maintain some control over his environment. Nursing may be his way to have some sort of control over the chaos in his life.

bwylde, if your nursing relationship with your ds isn't working for you, then it isn't working period. The nursing relationship should work for both parties. If it's wearing you out, it is hurting both of you. See if there are ways that you can gently set limits on his nursing that will benefit both of you. Your son may not like it at first, but see if there are ways to substitute things for nursings. I had to wean my ds2 due to my health and a med that I was taking. It was hard on him, but he loved juice boxes, so for the first couple of weeks when he wanted to nurse, we would substitute a juice box. He had more juice then than he ever had before, but after the first couple weeks he was adjusted to not nursing then and we were able to wean him off the juice boxes. If you wanted to cut out some of the nursings, perhaps you could offer something like juice boxes in place of certain nursings during the day. As he gets used to not nursing then, you can slowly eliminate the substitute if it isn't the healthiest.

Take heart, it will get better.

[bwylde]

Recently, DS's nursing hasn't been so much of an issue. If it hurts or bothers me, I'll tell him then he'll either say "put boo back now" or he'll ask to keep nursing (usually if he's over tired or if something is really bothering him). Our moving got bumped up to tommorow with little notice, so things are majorly stressful right now. He's always been a high touch needs child and I have no doubt that he really does need to nurse as much as he does, especially when so much in his little world is changing so quickly. I think that's where the most guilt for me comes from. I don't feel like he is "pushing me around" for lack of better words. He's used to being number one and it's a hard adjustment having to share me.

I did want to mention I don't have that depression cloud hanging over me, IYKWIM. I am tired, but that's from being sick. Otherwise I feel pretty clear in thought and not in a fog like I do when I'm pretty bad.

I probably won't be around much since we're moving and I don't know when we'll have phone or power at our new place. I really can't wait to move as there will be so much more space so we won't be tripping over each other and everything. I can see the park from my front door and know we'll get to spend a lot more time outside

[Jish]

Good luck with the move.

[bwylde]

Thanks

We're moving today s: . As I speak, DH, FIL, the missionaries and someone from church are moving some of the big stuff. I just wanted to pop on before we disconnected the computer as I won't be online for a week at least. We won't have a phone line until Friday and they have to send us a new modem (hard to say how long that will take). It will be nice to be able to focus on working as we get so distracted by the computer (this is a case in point, lol!!).

I've been kind of blue about moving, but realize it's for the best and can't wait to be in there. I'm realizing how cluttered down we are and It's been weighing heavily how much junk is in our lives. We've gotten rid of a lot but it just doesn't put a dent in it . I think we'll be de-cluttering more after to simplify a bit.

I hear my little girl so I should get going! I'll check in after we're back online

[Jish]

I hope it's all going well. Moving is so stressful, but it sure helps get rid of those things that you'd forgotten you had cause they were shoved in the back of closets or in the corner of the garage. We are in the process of trying to get rid of as much stuff that we have been holding on to "just in case we might need it again." If we haven't used it in a few years, chances are we won't miss it.:LOL

I look forward to hearing how everything went.

[bwylde]

Thanks for checking in Beth

This past week has been ~~~hell~~~. Between being sick (I just can't shake this cold), having to take care of two little ones and transitioning them through the move, being tired, having not packed, having little to no motivation or desire to do anything, it was just a recipe for disaster. Thankfully we're through the worst of it. We got all our stuff out of the old place in time (only to find out we could of took longer, but I'm glad it's done) but now our new place is in such chaos. I just feel like crawling in bed and staying there. It doesn't help that it has been raining or extremely cold all week. Weather really affects my mood. I look around and know that if I just do something, anything, get it done, it will be done then it is just maintaining the house but it's getting to the point where there is a place for everything so things can just be put away, and we're just not there (the last few days of moving, everything was just flung in boxes regardless of what it was and it is a real mess!!). I had hoped to declutter more than I did, but I will be able to as I unpack.

We did get our Christmas tree, which I had hoped would perk my mood, but I'm totally unmotivated to decorate it. We got a real tree for a change and I can't even smell it, which I usually love (darn cold!!). We were going decorate yesterday but got busy, same with today. I'm home alone with DD right now and would like to at least get the lights on as I know DS would love to help put decorations on, but I just needed a break (hey, I haven't been online in a week so I want to catch up ).

I am truly thrilled to be living where we are. Being out of the neighborhood we were in just lifted a huge weight off me. We drove down to get our mail today and DS was having a fit because he didn't want to go there and was scared we were going in. I told him we never have to live there again and we all had big grins . We're so close to everything and I don't even have the desire to go to McDonalds, which is literally in my backyard :LOL (Even though DH asks several times a day if I want to go : )

[Breathless Wonder]

I just wanted to send you some support. I hope things smooth out for you soon!

[Jish]

I'm glad that the move is somewhat complete. It can be so overwhelming to look at all that stuff and think about the work that needs to be done. If I may offer some advice, take an afternoon, a pad of paper and a pen and go through the house room by room writing down everything that needs to be done. Make it very specific. Don't write things like "unpack kitchen," make it more specific like unpack plates from box number 1 (it can help to number boxes as you go to make it easier later.) Literally, write down everything from putting clothes on hangers in the master bedroom and hanging them in the closet, to putting the toilet paper on the roller in the main bathroom. It sounds like a lot more work, but a few hours making a list can save you a lot of time in the end. As you complete every little thing, cross it off the list. You don't necessarily have to go in the order of the list, but the main thing is not to do things that aren't on the list (if you come across things along the way, you add them to the list rather than doing them at the time). That way, you don't start one thing then notice something else and start on that, then you get halfway through that and you get caught up in something else and pretty soon you have three or four half done things, but nothing completed.

It's also such a boost to be able to look at the list and see how many things you have actually gotten done, rather than trying to tackle things and never feeling like you're getting anywhere. This is what I do when I am doing major cleaning (even if it's not too major) and it helps a ton. When I do it, rather than saying "clean the boys bathroom" I list everyting I need to do in the bathroom such as clean the mirror, wipe out the sink, scrub the toilet bowl, clean the outside of the toilet, clean inside of the bathtub, clean the outside of the bathtub (I don't always do both), wipe down the towel bars, change the towels, mop the floor.

I do that with every room I plan to do. It takes me 15 to 20 minutes to make my list, but in the end it keeps me motivated because I can see everything I'm doing and how much I've gotten done. Otherwise, I tend to get sidetracked (you know, you start cleaning out a closet, then you find something that belongs in another closet and when you go to that closet you start organizing that closet, but then you come across something that belongs somewhere else, and pretty soon you have half the house torn up and nothing is finished.)

I wish you luck with the house and I hope you feel better soon. My ds3 (9 mo.) has his first real miserable cold and when I started feeling the scratchy throat I went and got some Zycam and it hasn't gotten any worse. I wish I could give it to him.

[bwylde]

That sounds like a good plan. I still don't know where to begin as I've fallen so behind the day to day things that need to get done. I wish I would of involved myself more in the moving but I was so down mentally not to mention not feeling well I just could not do it. When I'm in the basement doing laundry, I just grab a box and pick through it and put the junk in a pile and put the rest away. Although I'm very grateful for the help we got, it amazes me some of the things that they packed as there is a lot of garbage mixed in with good stuff (of course DH can't bear to throw anything away : ). I really want to get my fabric unpacked but I can't get to it right now. My main goal is getting the kitchen and living room looking reasonable. It's not even a matter of unpacking them as everything is out, but they are the main areas where the clutter ends up. I have a ton of things in the kitchen that dont' even belong to us but the owners won't take them back. I have 3 garbage bags of diapers I need to put on a rack in the basement, but I always get side tracked. Then there are the books. We need to buy several large book cases to put them on, but we're not having any luck finding them. Oh and to finish it off, there are christmas decorations strewn all through this a la DS.

I think tommorow we are going to get the clothes done. They are in garbage bags in the bedrooms, ready to be put out, but already DH is throwing them around the room so I don't know what's clean or dirty. I have half a mind to go through and get rid of some myself as he has more than the rest of us put together (and DS has a wack of clothes!). I want order in my home. I don't want it to be strict and unbearable, but I want to get up and make the bed, not have to hunt for it at night so we can sleep. I don't want to kick piles of clothes out of the way to walk through the bedroom. I dont' want my feet to stick to the kitchen floor. I want a clean safe area for DD to roll around on in the living room.

OK, most of that was a vent I had to get out. I just feel I would have more peace and feel better if I wasn't living in such a chaotic enviroment. We waste so much time that we could spend doing meaningful things and that depresses me.

On the upside, we went to the park today and it darn well near killed me! It freezing, my throat was burning raw from the cold and being sick, I had to push the huge double stroller through two muddy fields to get there (may take the long way next time, lol!) and it was too cold for DS to play long. So I feel a bit better having got some exercise.

Now, if only I could get some sleep. DD is teething and is such a bear. It seemed one or the other was up at any given moment last night and I'm just pooped.

DH has Friday off and I hope it's a nice day so he can take the kids out for a while and give me a break. I sometimes get jealous he gets out and away from all this.

OK, that turned out way longer than I expected, but I feel I can really share here. I don't have anyone to talk to and it's nice to get even the simple day to day things out of my head.