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post #81 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby
How, exactly, is freaking out over something that a child did with good intentions, AP? If a young child's actions are met with dirty looks and disgust, what does the child get from that, other than shame and embarrassment?
I think you need to re-read my post, and then tell me where in it I said I freaked out or gave the child a dirty/disgusted look.
post #82 of 108
Wow. This is a tough one. I can see both sides. My dd would absolutely freak out and have a tantrum if a stranger of any age tried to touch her in any way. I certainly wouldn't hold it against a child if they came up to her being friendly though. Once, at the bookstore a little boy kissed dd's hand and she flipped. We had to leave the store. She was so upset it was just heartbreaking. The little boy's mom apologized, and we told her not to even worry about it. The kid wasn't even two years old. He thought he was being sweet. I wouldn't have a problem with it at all if dd enjoyed the affection. Since she doesn't, I just have to try to protect her from it and explain to strangers that she doesn't like to be messed with.
post #83 of 108
My dd is 5 and knows better than to grab,touch,kiss anyone's baby. I would be upset if any child did that to my baby.My ds is 2.5 and he knows not to do that as well.It is one thing with family and friends after asking ofcourse,but not with strangers.
post #84 of 108
I think it's kind of cute, but I teach my own children not to touch or kiss someone unless the person on the receiving end wants it. I also teach them that it's OK if they don't want someone to kiss or hug, or touch them. But that's just me.
post #85 of 108
Quote:
How, exactly, is freaking out over something that a child did with good intentions, AP? If a young child's actions are met with dirty looks and disgust, what does the child get from that, other than shame and embarrassment?


Um, the OP didn't snarl or gag. She frowned . At the mother. She didn't chase after the child, foaming at the mouth. Or snatch him up by his hair. I saw nothing in her post that indicated she even remotely "freaked out". She was, rightly so, uncomfortable. And it is her right and her responsibility to look after her own child, just as it is the responsibility of the other mother to teach her child to respect others. Otherwise, someone is eventually going to take a very un-ap approach in clearly demonstrating the consequences of violating another's personal space.
post #86 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy


Um, the OP didn't snarl or gag. She frowned . At the mother. She didn't chase after the child, foaming at the mouth. Or snatch him up by his hair. I saw nothing in her post that indicated she even remotely "freaked out". She was, rightly so, uncomfortable. And it is her right and her responsibility to look after her own child, just as it is the responsibility of the other mother to teach her child to respect others. Otherwise, someone is eventually going to take a very un-ap approach in clearly demonstrating the consequences of violating another's personal space.
ITA with this post. I don't know that I would have felt great if it happened to one of my children, but I don't think I could have said anything to the mother. I probably would have frowned at her too.
post #87 of 108
I personally would not be ok with it just because of DS life threating food allergies. Before I used to think nothing of it, but now I am very cautious as to who touches and hugs and kisses DS when we go out places.
post #88 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBeary77
well, originally, you posted that you gave the mother an evil look. Your words. The you edited it to say you frowned.
Yes, but minutes after posting that, I realized that was a typo (which was DAYS ago - way before that poster replied). But, what does that editing have to do with it? I asked where I said I freaked out on the CHILD or gave it an evil look?
post #89 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBeary77

Just keep in mind that kids will be exhuberant and affectionate. If you don't like it, sling your daughter or put her in a cart. (If she's big enough, she'll sit in it, if not, put the carseat in it.)

Are you kidding??? Our society make it clear that no one has a right to touch anyone who does not want to be touched. This is a GOOD thing. Every person should have the right to control what happens to their own body. While small children have some leeway, it is NOT for the mom of the kid who does not want to be touched to have to take action, it for the mom of the toucher to Stop IT!

Pleading that "society needs more love" or "kids are naturally exuburent" does not make your case. It is up to EACH person to decide how much "love" they want from someone else. AND Yes, A child might "exuberently" touch someone's person or property but a parent needs to make it clear that this is not ok unless they know that the person want this or they have asked first.
post #90 of 108
so the question is what would i have done? i would've got that child who did the kissing away from my child. yes, i wouldv'e removed him. and asked his mother does she plan on teaching him about personal space. i have a big issue with personal space. i don't like people hugging me, unless it is family.

I think its' gross. who knows where that kid has been and why he felt a need to kiss stars' child.


star, you were completely appropriate.
post #91 of 108
Living in Europe, I have to say that one thing I've noticed is that this "personal space" issue is very, very American. Here, people live on top of each other, kids walk hand-in-hand and kiss each other (sometimes on the lips even), I see kids 8 or 9 years old greeting each other with handshakes... the world is getting smaller and the population bigger. Better get used to human contact in America, too. At least it was an affectionate interaction instead of some kid hitting the baby. Totally overracting, imho. I've never seen such phobia against human interaction like there is in America.

P.S. I'm an American, btw, so I can say these things with impunity.
post #92 of 108
I think it was sweet too. I think little kids are sweet when they show love to each other like that.
post #93 of 108
Quote:
I think it was sweet too. I think little kids are sweet when they show love to each other like that.
post #94 of 108
Germs and, in our case, my son's LIFE aside, did you all even read the following??

Quote:
But the part that really irks me is how rough he was with her (he RAN towards her and she was pushed back into her seat).
That is not ok nor is it cute. Children are sometimes unknowingly rough with a little one, but it is not ok to brush it off with a laugh. Even children must learn that their actions can impact and even hurt those around them. And the littlest ones need to know that mommy's not going to stand around and giggle while they're being knocked around.

Missy
post #95 of 108
So I see that there have been some passionate responses to the OP, and I hope you won't be offended if I just respond to your initial question and not the succeeding issues folks have raised. The immediate question is very relevant for me, because my son seems to attract older children at the park, who often hug and kiss him. (he is a remarkably sweet looking little guy, I think.) He generally gets scared and cries a little when this happens. I would like him to feel comfortable and less shy with other kids. He is a little one still and he tends to get really excited when he sees other children but then to kind of hang back.

In general the other parents at the playground have been pretty good about telling their children "be gentle with the baby", etc. It's hard though. I don't think it's a sign of bad parenting if a child does this, but it is definitely good parenting to monitor children's behavior and make sure they get information about how other children feel when their space is invaded.

I'm not particularly worried about germs. Now that he's getting bigger, I would like my son to feel more comfortable saying "no!" if he doesn't want to be touched. That's my main concern, to empower him to deal with other kids.
post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic
the world is getting smaller and the population bigger. Better get used to human contact in America, too. At least it was an affectionate interaction instead of some kid hitting the baby. Totally overracting, imho. I've never seen such phobia against human interaction like there is in America.

P.S. I'm an American, btw, so I can say these things with impunity.

I hope the world never gets so "small" that people can't respect cultural sensitivities. And I hope that an individual's right to have control over their own body and who touches it is never taken away.
post #97 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic
Living in Europe, I have to say that one thing I've noticed is that this "personal space" issue is very, very American. Here, people live on top of each other, kids walk hand-in-hand and kiss each other (sometimes on the lips even), I see kids 8 or 9 years old greeting each other with handshakes... the world is getting smaller and the population bigger. Better get used to human contact in America, too. At least it was an affectionate interaction instead of some kid hitting the baby. Totally overracting, imho. I've never seen such phobia against human interaction like there is in America.

P.S. I'm an American, btw, so I can say these things with impunity.
I'm not American.
post #98 of 108
Well, I'll clarify a little bit before I get blasted again. The population is growing and "personal space" is getting smaller, we just don't see it as much in the US because it's such a huge country. The way we react to people "invading" our personal space is learned from infanthood. Kids naturally make new friends in minutes and are hugging and kissing on each other, which, to me seems so wonderfully sweet and uninhibited. As adults, we avert our eyes, avoid any contact with strangers and if we do, we feel that it's an invasion - and we naturally project this on to our kids. For example, over here, if you are a couple sitting at a table for 4 in a restaurant, they'll sit another couple at your table. In the US, this would never happen because it's an invasion of personal space. But kids in every country don't have hang-ups about this "space" issue and they are just showing their feelings. I would like to think that at least for a few years kids can just show affection without social repercussions, no matter where they live. Yes, it's important to be gentle, especially with infants, but I just think that it's good to let kids be kids, including letting them be affectionate toward one another.

My observation is that I see that they are much more laid-back about human contact as adults here than at home, likely because parents don't put limits on their kids' interactions such as what the OP wrote about. I'm not talking about purposely touching another adult (i.e. control over who touches your body,as maya mentioned), I'm talking about general "personal space" - crowded trains and buses and restaurants and stores. Anyway, as I am entitled to my opinion, I still think that it's over-reacting if one gets so upset when a strange child comes up to your child and shows affection. For me, it's just another example of the innocent, uninhibited actions that we eventually outgrow... a pure sweetness that's in all of us before we grow up, become jaded and put limits on our personal space.

It's just my opinion based on my observations. I don't expect people to agree with my opinion, of course. That's fine. I'm just stating it.
post #99 of 108
I know that lots of people have expressed personal space concerns, and I understand them even if I don't share them. But to me, the main issue of this discussion is, how do you handle it when people behave in ways you'd rather they didn't?

My personal opinion is that living in this world requires give and take, and if you get up in arms every time someone does something you don't like, you're going to be up in arms most of the time. The kid kissed your daughter and was a little rough. Ok, but it's over now, and it probably would have been a lot easier to just acknowledge that it wasn't something you liked, shrug it off, and move on.

Also, I'm a little bit horrified by how judgemental everyone is being of this other mom, who explained that her kid always kisses people. People here assume that this mother has never ever talked to her kid about it and just lets him run wild doing whatever he wants. No one here knows whether that's the case. Maybe she is working with him every day on personal space issues and he's just not getting it. She doesn't owe that explanation to anyone. She's entitled to handle the situation publicly as she sees fit, and I think it's a shame that so many people are willing to jump in and assume the worst about her.

From the Buddhist perspective, the situation is exactly the same whether she and her son are working on personal space issue or not. You can choose to see the situation as what it was, a brief happening in your daughter's life, or you can make it into a a major issue that haunts you for a long time. I believe that it's better for our mental health to take the bad with the good and just ackowledge that living with other people means you can't always control what happens. I see so many people, bit at AMDC and IRL, trying to control other people, and it just creates more heartache and frustration for them. Flexibility is a virtue.

Namaste!
post #100 of 108

Here is my story...

I can look at all sides nowadays...

But 20 years ago, I was a very naive new mama. Yes, I read as much as I could, did the CB classes, did unmedicated birth, did breastfeeding, etc. But I was still REALLY GREEN.

My baby was born at the end of November, and we had received gifts from people related to my husband's work. We were young and struggling. (The good 'ol days, you know...) So when there was this holiday get-together, and we were invited and so was the baby, we went. And although the baby was in a quiet bedroom in the house where the party was, everyone kept going in to see him. And yes, touch, hug and kiss him...

Sooooooooo, at only 3 weeks old, this poor child had a bad COLD!!!
He had to sleep upright, usually on me, sometimes in the kangarockaroo, because he was all stuffed up.

So it should be no surprise to you, that when we had a second child 4 years later, NOBODY WAS ALLOWED NEAR HIM. And do you know what? This child did not catch his first cold until he was almost 2 years old. The main way I avoided people touching, etc. was to keep him cover with something. In a stoller, I draped the netting or a sheer blankie. In the carrier, I kept him close and covered most of his head with a soft flannel blankie or dipe. And then I pretty much did the same with baby 3, born 6 years ago and he was over 2 before he had a cold, and he has only had 3 colds.

Still, there were times when someone wanted to see the baby, sometimes it was an adult, sometimes it was a child. I would smile my sweetest smile and move away.

Realize that I am one of the world's most affectionate people, I am a hugger. My kids are all huggers. And oh, yeah, they tried to hug babies when they were 3,4, 5 years old. My last one would always try to "pet" babies on the head. Now he doesn't go near them, and acts "shy". New phase.

I am also a believer in old-fashioned handwashing.

So I have seen it from both sides.

You asked "what would you do?" We are all different people, unique individuals, not cookie cut-outs, so we all react differently. If it happened to me, I would have just smiled, said nothing, and go scrub the baby.

You did what you thought was right at the time.
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