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Let's talk about what we tell our children.  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm curious as to how you did or are planning on explaining circ. to your children.

My four year old overheard me talking about it with a pregnant friend of mine. In the car she asked what a circumspicion was I simply said that some parents choose to chop off a part of their new baby's penis. She got this horrified expression and said, "Why?" I said that there was no reason; that some people just liked it that way, and that our family does not nor will ever condone this practice.

So how 'bout you? How will you explain this to your child? And do you fear that they may say something inappropriate to someone and embarrass you?
post #2 of 20
No, I don't worry that my kids will embarass me...if what they say is true then everybody else will just have to get over it

This is a sticky situation for me b/c my oldest two sons are circ'd (ds2 w/o permission in the hospital), and the youngest is not. I haven't had the OFFICIAL talk with them, but I plan to basically explain that circumcision is an unnecessary surgery where part of the penis is cut off. I will tell them the truth, that it is harmful and not helpful, despite the lies to the contrary. I will explain that it is WRONG, and I will apologize (for whatever it is worth) to them What more can I do? Honestly, I think it is really important not to sugar-coat this, b/c our children (and IMO especially our sons) need to know that circumcision HAS TO STOP!
post #3 of 20
I plan to be equally blunt as the 2 PPs. And I *hope* ds says something blunt when he starts talking about it. People need to be confronted with the unpleasant truth. We pussyfoot around important things too much, IMO.

The only thing I don't know about, is my sister circ'ed her 2 boys. They are 6 and 3 and I didn't know anything about circ'ing when she had her kids, and she is 15 years older than me, so I don't want to offend or upset her about something she can't change. (She is not having anymore.) I just hope the topic doesn't come up with her.
post #4 of 20
I really don't remember when I told my dd(5) about it.Probably starting around 4.We have the below conversation on occasion.More often recently since my dh and his family are pushing to visit them. She needed to know why I won't let her and her brother go visit their grandparents and I said,

" If you go to Turkey your daddy,grandma,and grandpa will hold your brother down and cut off important parts of his penis. Why? Well there are various excuses they give just like over in this country.One is religion.There are many religions out there and some religions(like judaism and islam) say GOD(or Mohammend the prophet) told them to do it,but we won't ever be a part of genital cutting religions.Even so, daddy wants to make his parents happy and that means cutting your brothers penis up.

Another excuse is they think it is cleaner and healtheir.That is why Loris did it to all her boys(her friends parent).I mean after all a missing part can't get itchy or red right? Is there any part of you I should cut off so you don't have to wash it,or worry about infections?No?Your pee-pee gets red and itchy,should I cutparts of it off?Ofcourse not,and it is really bad to do this to boys.They can wash everywhere too just like girls.

Another reason is because if the daddy has a cut up penis he wants his son to have the same cut up penis.Maybe they are mad or jealous that their son has things they got cut and thrown away. It is hard to say,and most daddies really can't explain it themselves,but they just want it done.

If you ask daddy he will probably get all nervous,change the subject,or just say"God wants it done because we are muslims." But really honey God has nothing to do with this.People have been cutting genitals up long before there were muslims and jews. In fact it was used as a form of punishment against enemies during war, to hurt slaves,and more recently in this country to curb masturbation.And masturbation well that is when you touch your own genitals.People do it because it feels good,and people think that it is bad so they started cutting boys in this country to punish them for touching their penis. Even girls had parts of their genitals cut,but I forget the reasons why it started,and why they stopped.We'll have to look that up.

So that is that. When dd told dh a few weeks ago (they were alone) why going to Turkey wasn't a good idea ofcourse he lied and said he wouldn't let that happen.Later when he confronted me about talking to dd about circ I said," Your damn right I told her.She needs to know,and our son will know too.Cutting up anyone's genitals is a horrible thing to do.Maybe you think you can lie to her and get away with it,but don't try to pretend with me. Circumcision isn't something hidden away anymore,and it isn't something blindly accepted by most anymore either.Don't expect our kids to grow up thinking circumcision is a good thing,because all the reasons given to do it are just lame excuses.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea

The only thing I don't know about, is my sister circ'ed her 2 boys. They are 6 and 3 and I didn't know anything about circ'ing when she had her kids, and she is 15 years older than me, so I don't want to offend or upset her about something she can't change. (She is not having anymore.) I just hope the topic doesn't come up with her.

I don't know....I think your sis needs to know, so that her sons will know the truth too, KWIM?
post #6 of 20
I hadn't really planned on talking to the kids about it, unless my son asked about his foreskin. But, I think it will come up because they have 4 male cousins close in age, and all 4 are, sadly, circumcised. While we don't see two of them often, we see the other 2 all the time, and we see them in all stages of dress/undress.

My daughter asked why her brother's penis is on the inside, while her cousins is on the outside. She was just 3, so I told her all people were different and she was pleased with that. As she gets older, I'll explain the difference to both of the kids.

I hate to alienate my sister, but she has said she wouldn't circ. future sons. She's Jewish,and never really thought about doing anything other than what we've learned growing up. I know she's upset about it now, and I won't tell my kids that she is horrible for doing it, but I'll let them know it's a horrible thing to do to kids.

I wonder what my sister will say to her kids, who know that my son looks different than they do. I know she plans on apologizing to them, but I also know she's dreading the topic.

I guess I'll go with the old, answer any questions, don't provide more info than they are looking for type of thing, and hope I can explain it in a way that makes sense to them.

Take care!
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaftigmama

I guess I'll go with the old, answer any questions, don't provide more info than they are looking for type of thing, and hope I can explain it in a way that makes sense to them.
I think I will do the same thing. My ds is close to his cousin, and they are close in age. Unfortunately, they are circ. I do not want to alienate my sis, but I am sure it will come up someday.
post #8 of 20
i told my 3 yr old some people think it is good to cut off part of a baby's weewee because they don't know any better, & we think it's wrong, & we would never do that. we'll get into the jewish thing later (poor daddy!) man, did his jaw drop.

i think preserving the natural shock value & not sugar-coating it is the best way to handle it. if someone gets offended, oh well. perhaps it will inspire them to think. i certainly didn't have to *convince* him that cutting up babies was a bad thing.

suse
post #9 of 20
I will likely explain in a very similiar empowering way. including all the myths.. my child's knowledge on the subject definitly won't embarrass me though.
post #10 of 20
I've got three intact boys, the oldest is 13, and by now I'm getting used to dealing with this. With my oldest, at about age 8, I told him that the hospital asks parents if they want the skin removed. He just shrugged it off, luckily (not that's it's a trivial matter, but I'd just as soon his angst be centered around skateboards as opposed to foreskin). My 9 yr old got the info from older brother, and it's a bit early to tell if this will trickle down to the youngest. If not, I'll do the same routine with him that I did with the eldest.
post #11 of 20
I think we will tell DS that some people cut that skin off and it is not nice. Maybe tell him some people do not know better. DH is circed so I am sure it will bring up issues with MIL. I hope DH will get a good chance to talk to our nephews about why we didn't do it. We live near these three cousins, all boys and all circed. They are 20, 15, and 13 so it is definitally not cool to talk to me about it. I have told them at various times to not pull back the skin because it will really hurt DS and it cleans itself, when they are changing diapers or bathing DS.
post #12 of 20
My youngest hasn't asked yet, but I told my older two that some people have the foreskin cut off of their babies. Ds was horrified. We went over the reasons why this is done...and I shot down all of them, of course. I feel confident that any grandsons I might have will not be subject to circ.

My nephew is circ'd. I tried to prevent it, but failed. It isn't something that the boys discuss though--(I don't think nephew even knows that he's circ'd.) I wouldn't be concerned if my kids did say something to him though--sooner or later, he'll find out, and sooner or later he'll have to decide if he should confront his parents about it. I can't help that. They did what they did and they'll have to deal with it.
post #13 of 20
Wanted to add when the kids are old enough to understand I will go over this lost list with them.Until then I will stress that *MANY PARTS* are removed when the cutting of the genitals is done during a circumcision procedure;not just a little bit of skin covering the tip of the penis(like losing any bit of skin is ok) as many say to explain it.

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

ps.Dh was making comments about penile size,and I took the opportunity to mention that 50% of penile shaft skin(needed to have what would have been normal sized erections for him) was lost during that *little snip* of an event. No comment,but I hope he thought about what I said.
post #14 of 20
With my son I forgot how it got brought up. I was very honest and open. He just thought his penis will grow to look like my husband. Then he was horrified to find out part of his dad's penis was removed.

My oldest daughter happen to see some pictures on the computer of a and adult dark skinned male being circumcised, just photos of penises being cut. And asked what those pictures were of. I told her circumcission. She asked what that was. I explained it was the removal of foreskin on a man's penis. I had to fill her in on the differences in penises. She has seen both her brother and dad naked. I gave her a brief history of circumcission. She was pretty horrified and asked why they were doing it to that man. I told her I didn't know but there was a lot of ignorance about it.
post #15 of 20
About a year ago DD was in the bathroom with her male friend (they were 3.5 and 4 yrs old) and still pottied together. After he left (I was so surprised that she waited ) she asked what was wrong with his penis. Up until that point she had only seen her baby brother's perfect intact penis.
I told her that some people chose to cut the ends of their baby's penises off. She of course was horrified and asked why, to which I replied that some people just didn't know any better, so it was up to us to tell them before their babies are born, so they do know better.
Her friend actually has a buried penis and has had many invasive exams in his short life due to his botched circ. His mother never told me about his issues until after I had brought my baby boy home from another state! That is how embarassed she was over her decision to circ, I did tell her that she needed to be telling other people about it, but she doesn't want her son to go through life with everyone knowing about his deformity. I also encouraged her to sue the doctor who botched him but she won't do that for the same reason. I will be telling him he has options when he hits his teens.

Also I had the opportunity to enlighten a couple of other kids while camping with friends this past summer. They were 9 and 11, boy and girl siblings. They were watching me change my baby and asked what was wrong with his penis. I told them that there was actually nothing wrong with his penis; that this was what a perfect penis looks like. I explained that when they were grown ups they would know not to cut their baby's penises or vaginas too. Fortunately their mom was happy with my education; her son was adopted as a toddler and was already circ'd.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie
Her friend actually has a buried penis and has had many invasive exams in his short life due to his botched circ. His mother never told me about his issues until after I had brought my baby boy home from another state! That is how embarassed she was over her decision to circ, I did tell her that she needed to be telling other people about it, but she doesn't want her son to go through life with everyone knowing about his deformity. I also encouraged her to sue the doctor who botched him but she won't do that for the same reason.

There is a secrecy that surrounds almost all of these cases that allows circumcision to continue. Parents are embarrassed that they allowed this to happen or are worried that everyone will know which will embarrass the child. It is a carefully guarded secret. In the 1980's, two boys lost their penises at Atlanta's Northside Hospital on the same day and same shift. Almost 20 years later, their names are still a closely guarded secret. 2 years ago, a friend in Utah heard a radio news story about a child who died from his circumcision. I searched every radio, television and newspaper website for 500 miles in every direction for information but there was none. A Godmother reported here that her Godson had died of an infection after suffering for almost 9 months. She was only given permission to post his story if she agreed to not give any names or location, hospital, etc. When these things happen, the insurance companies rush in and settle quickly with non-disclosure agreements so that the information doesn't get out.

Circumcision is a sacred cow that is protected at all costs. No one who has circumcised their child wants it known what they have done. They try to stop all discussion about it to hide what they have done. At other boards where debate is allowed, these people come there and try to shut the debate down. They accuse the intactivists of attacking them. They say that no one has the right to judge them. They assert their rights. In short, they do everything they can think of to stop all discussion of circumcision. We even see it here where no discussion of ritual circumcision is allowed.

All of these people have an investment in circumcision. The doctors/hospitals make over a billion dollars a year doing circumcisions. They are protecting their checking accounts. They also have allowed and participated in the disfigurement of millions of men and there is a collective guilt when there is any discussion of circumcision. They deny that guilt by continuing their bloody practice. The parents have made an irreversible decision for their child that has no merit and no benefit. They don't want that information to see the light of day and they just want the issue to go away so that their victims will never see it and will never ask "Why, Mom?"

For more than a hundred years, the truth was carefully hidden in dusty, musty medical texts in medical libraries where the consumer seldom ventured and with layers and layers of denial and misleading misinformation. Only in the past 10 years has truthful information become conviently available and the denial has become increasingly difficult to maintain. That denial is becoming increasingly nasty. There is an investment to protect and there are vast sums of money on the table. The perpetrators of this crime against mankind deny there are substantial amounts of money but their deeds lable them as liars. When North Carolina first stopped payment for Medicaid funded circumcisions, the medical industry was caught off guard. The legislature thought any outcry would come from Medicaid receipients and expected little. However, they were surprised by a quick and intense response by the medical industry lobbyists and the millions of dollars that flowed into the campaign fund coffers from the medical industry in just a few days. It was so intense that just 10 days later, the law was rescinded. However, it appears that doctors and politicians are cut from the same cloth and it appears that the politicians saw the opportunity for more gain from the medical industry and brought the legislation up the very next year. Apparently, the medical industry saw they were being blackmailed and refused to make the annual payment and the law passed.

Even when there are horrific outcomes, there is a strong need for denial. When Ryliegh McWillis died at Penticon Hospital in Vancouver, his mother insisted that if she has another son, she will circumcise him. If the second son survives, she will use him as an example that they were just unlucky with Ryliegh and that circumcision is a good thing. The doctors and lawyers warned her that "Ryliegh would be used as an example by the anti-circumcision cultists and radicals." Instead of facing the horror of what they had all done, they denied it by attacking those who would question them.

This is a culture of guilt and the denial will continue until generations after the last infant circumcision. Up until the 1920's, female circumcision was common in the US. That is something few people nowadays know because just as infant male circumcision is a closely guarded issue, female circumcision was also a closely guarded secret. Only now after more than 80 years when the vast majority of the victims are dead can we speak out against it. It will be the same with infant male circumcision. It is a sacred cow that must be protected.




Frank
post #17 of 20
frank, when you get serious you make me cry as well as think. all those poor babies :''(
i thank god for the internet, and for your business acumen giving you the time to be the activist/educator you are. have i told you lately, you kick ass? thanks for all you do, for all the little men, & for exposing this dirty little secret.

suse
post #18 of 20
Thanks, Suse! Your validation is worth more than any amount of money.




Frank
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBeary77
Oh, bil was circ'd anyway, against her wishes.

That was quite common at the time. If the doctor determined that the parents had the money to pay the bill, the child was circumcised regardless of the parents wishes and even against the specific instructions of the parents. This happened with my cousins and my uncle is intact. He still gets red in the face some 50 years later when it comes up. Fortunately for many men, there was a lawsuit filed in the early '70's against a physician about this practice and afterward, they had to get a consent form signed. There was usually intense pressure placed on the parents and usually the consent form was buried in a sheaf of papers to be signed. Much if not most of the time it was presented to the mother while she was in labor in in no frame of mind to read through everything she was signing. This is medicine run amuck and arrogant people who think they know better than you what is best for you and intend to force their thinking on your family.




Frank
post #20 of 20
A doctor who is married to one of my relatives - now retired - said that in the sixties they circ'd all the baby boys "unless the mother had serious objections". I would never have expected that of him - even his own son is intact. Maybe my cousin "seriously objected" !! However I find that attitude totally "objectionable", but it was obvoiusly what they were taught to do. This was in Toronto. And like Frank said , after consent was required they buried the form with all the others and hoped the mother did not notice. Hardly ethical !!! In fact I find it disgusting.
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