Cat experts - Help, I don't know what to do

[spero]

We adopted a stray beige tabby kitten last month - the first pet our kids have ever owned. Aside from being ill (bad case of conjunctivitis & snotty upper respiratory infection), he seemed fine. He was clean, well-fed - we figure he was part of a litter that was just old enough to leave their mama and they got dumped.

I took him to the vet. She made a brief mention of hearing a slight heart murmur but said it was probably nothing. She did a feline leukemia test (neg) and prescribed abx and eye goop. I brought him in a week later to be checked out and she said the murmur was gone.

Sammy went in this morning for his "snip". The vet now says he has a definite and pronounced murmur - she had a cold the last time she checked him & she thinks she may not have heard it b/c her ears were slightly stuffy. She tells me that a heart murmur in a cat is always something to worry about, and must be treated. The drugs are not expensive (basically, aspirin every three days and a blood pressure med). However, she really wants us to take the cat to a cardiologist for an echo. The consultation fee alone is $250, and I'm sure that the procedure itself isn't cheap either. Vet claims that the echo will better diagnose the severity of the murmur so that the drugs can be adjusted accordingly. However, she is willing to prescribe the meds for Sammy without a diagnosis from a cardio.

I just don't know what to do. We love this cat. We're attached to him. I don't want Sammy to suffer. I want to give him the best quality of life/care that we can afford; but honestly, $250+ is just not a feasible option for us right now! DH will blow a gasket......he was NOT happy about this addition to our family, anyway.

Am I callous to want to just have the vet prescribe meds, and see what happens? I'm just so conflicted about this, I don't know what the hell to do!

Thoughts? Advice? Anyone been through this? Please help me sort this out.

[JesiLynne]

Like everything else medical, get a 2nd opinion, I suggest by a holistic, or homeopathic vet if you can find one.

[The Lucky One]

We're going through a similar thing right now with one of our cats. He has (and I can't remember the exact name right now) some sort of cardiomyopathy in which the heart is enlarged. He also has an arrythmia and has been in heart failure one time. This was diagnosed by an ekg and he is also on an aspirin twice weekly, lasix (fluid pill) every other day and two anti-arrythmia meds. We also were offered an echo, but the closest vet that does these is 2 hrs away and we just couldn't make the trip. I think we are doing the right thing by giving the meds and seeing how he responds. So far, so good.

Perhaps you could request and ekg (much cheaper). I think it would be perfectly prudent to take the meds and see how your cat does.

eta: lol. In my last paragraph, it sounded like I meant for you to take the meds. Not so. I meant it would be perfectly prudent to give the cat the meds and see how it responds.

[meowee]

My opinion on this is that you have to remember that cats aren't people. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. There's no need to feel bad. Give the kitty the aspirin but make it clear to the vet you cannot afford the cardiologist. Don't let her push you around.

[shannon0218]

Well, I'm gonna be totally honest here. I'm a registered vet tech and while I only practiced for 5 yrs, those 5 yrs were spent working in a referral practice where we had both an internist and a cardiologist.
I had a young kitten who had a murmer while I worked there--first off, it came and went--when it was audible it was a good one, but as soon as it was there it would be gone. We did do an EKG but even though we had an ultrasound machine there, we never bothered to do one as his EKG was basically normal (I could have done the echo all by myself and it wouldn't have cost me anything)
The biggest danger to this kitty will be aneasthetic, and it sounds like his neuter has already been done.
The unfortunate problem with heart problems in cats is this. Beyond the meds she is willing to prescribe without further testing, there isn't a hell of a lot that can be done. (btw, my old cat lived to be 13 on nothing more than aspirin) The aspirin helps to keep the blood thin, minimizing the chance of stroke.
I will qualify this with the fact that new advances may have been made since I was in the field, but basically, from say 8 yrs ago, the treatment is the same, whether you have an official diagnosis or not--and all an echo can give you is that--a diagnosis.
I hope this helps, please know a heart murmer is far from a death sentence for an otherwise healthy cat.

[The Lucky One]

the treatment is the same, whether you have an official diagnosis or not--and all an echo can give you is that--a diagnosis.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to say, but just couldn't figure out how to say it.

Good luck to you and your kitty!

[spero]

I know that the treatment will be the same, regardless of the diagnosis. What the vet explained to me is that there is no way for her to know the severity of the problem. She explained to me that there are three different types of murmurs, and that the BP meds would be adjusted according to the diaqgnosis, which would provide the ideal treatment. The problem w/taking him to a specialist, aside from all the $$$ involved, is that there are none around here - I would have to travel.
(Although....I could hook up with Sustainer.......)

Yes, Sammy was neutered this morning and had no apparent problems w/the anesthesia.

Originally Posted by shannon0218

(btw, my old cat lived to be 13 on nothing more than aspirin)

I hope this helps, please know a heart murmer is far from a death sentence for an otherwise healthy cat.

Thank you. This makes me feel a lot better. Since Sammy is an otherwise healthy cat, I think I will probably just ask our vet to prescribe the meds for now.

I just needed someone to tell me that would be OK.

Originally Posted by The Lucky One

In my last paragraph, it sounded like I meant for you to take the meds. Not so. I meant it would be perfectly prudent to give the cat the meds and see how it responds.

:LOL

[girlndocs]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to try out the meds, and *if* there appears to be a problem with them, or they seem to not be working well, then you can re-assess the situation. (Which may, or may not include the possibility of the echo.)

Don't feel guilty or callous. If you can't afford it, you can't, and it's not as if you're not doing anything for him. Many people would even choose to simply put the cat down or dump it :

Good luck! (I have a Sammy too, BTW! He just trampled over my keyboard )

Originally Posted by meowee

you have to remember that cats aren't people.

I don't think this is very helpful advice. When someone has a pet they love, then that is family, and the desire to do best by them is there. As it should be, IMO. I think Sammy is very lucky to have someone who's so concerned about his health.

[littleteapot]

I second the other advice here. Seek a second opinion, and remember that it's not a death sentance. Maybe you could inquire about a payment plan?? A lot of vets will do it if you ask...

Originally Posted by meowee

My opinion on this is that you have to remember that cats aren't people.

[Mom4tot]

Skell~ I agree with Shannon. My cat, Gizmo, had a heart murmur...discovered at a routine vet visit, after 20 minutes of H#LL in the car to get him there. Meowing like crazy, jumping against the box, frantic. The vet told me about his murmur and recommended I bring him back in every 5 months for an EKG, because "he could drop dead just eating, at any time from a stroke". Well...I wasn't genius, but, I felt fairly certain he was at more risk going balistic in the car than eating his food. s to you. Try the aspirin and don't worry too much. Gizmo lived a long and happy life!

[spero]

Another question

Several days a week in the early morning, Sammy has this little wheezing fit for about 3-5 minutes. Quite honestly, it sounds like he's trying to hack up a hairball and I just assumed that's what it was. It doesn't last long, but I've noticed that he really pulls in at the ribs during this time. He doesn't seem bothered by it, and usually purrs right through the fit, either lying calmly on the floor or sometimes walking around a bit.

I mentioned it to the vet a couple of weeks ago....she didn't think it was a hairball thing but wasn't certain it was related to the murmur, either. She mentioned that it seemed abnormal but didn't express much concern.

Shannon? Anyone?


Geez, can you tell I've never owned an indoor cat before? :
I''ve had lots of cats, but they were all outdoor/barn cats, fended for themselves, and never went to the vet for anything. (And they were the healthiest, longest-living cats I've ever known.)

[shannon0218]

Skell, you said when you got Sammy that he had a snotty nose right?? Kittens with upper respiratory illness generally have some degree of coughing or weezing for life--it's like they end up with a mild case of asthma. Often they will have recurring goopy eyes and snotty nose--no big deal, just a PITA. The good news is that you've already tested him for Feluek and he was negative--that would be the only alarm bell that would ring for me--I had one feluek kitty who only lived a couple months--but since I usually get sucked into these cute but sickly kittens--I've had plenty with snotty nose and goopy eyes--and they live long full lives with just a little extra nursing care when they come down with a cold
I had an asthma cat who we diagnosed at 4 yrs and he lived to be 10--at that he died while he was being chased by our 2 dogs outside and he was running full speed (he had just bitten one of hte dogs on the ear while he was sleeping--he knew he had to be fast ) Anyway, he dropped dead doing what he loved and he never felt a thing--most indoor cats will never get up that much speed--especially in their older yrs.
One way to know more for sure is if you have a ventolin inhaler around and an aerochamber, next time he has a fit, puff a dose of ventolin just into the air in front of his nose--if he settles quicker than normal, it's probably asthma--with asthma if it gets bad, they are generally treated with prednisone.

[EFmom]

We had a cat who also had a heart murmur diagnosed by our vet. The vet referred us to a vet school clinic to have extensive testing done. My dh was loopy about this particular cat as he rescued her after she had been dumped by somebody and hit by a car. The cat adored him as a result.

Dh took a day off work and brought the cat for the $800 worth of cardio tests. They found nothing in particular.

The diagnosis? Going to the vet made her nervous and made the heart pound rapidly. I could have told him that for half the fee. The cat lived for another 13 years.

[spero]

Thanks so much, Shannon. You've made me feel a whole lot better....I really, really appreciate your thoughts & advice.

[milk_maker]

Look at it this way...if your cat does have a heart murmur, will you fix it? If you will not be able to afford to spend all the extra money on the cat to fix the murmur, then why go to all the trouble to find out for sure? You've given the cat a good home and a good life. He's happy. I hope you can make the right decision and if it's for no intervention then I hope you do it guiltlessly.

[2tadpoles]

Did she test the cat for FIV? I used to have a cat with FIV. He was also a sickly stray that we picked up. Our vet tested him for feline leukemia and also for FIV. He basically said that any sick cat should be tested for both.

The reason I ask is that if the cat is FIV positive (just like HIV), then he is likely to be a high maintenance cat and will probably get sick again (and again and again). You might just want to find out what his status is. Also, if he's FIV positive, he should be kept away from other cats. FIV is transmitted through bites and scratches. Even play-fighting or aggressive grooming can transmit it.

I agree with everyone who said "do what you can." I spent quite a bit of money on my sick cat. We had him for about 18 months before we had to put him down. In that time he had several respiratory infections, two bouts of conjunctivitis, an ear infection, and a tooth abcess that required surgery. We also had him neutered. Eventually, he just couldn't bounce back. It's like his system couldn't take anymore. He was dehydrated and anorexic, and we had him put down. It seemed so unfair and I cried like a baby. He was a sweet, sweet cat. But we really couldn't have afforded to keep up with the constant treatments, anyway.

[myjulybabes]

How about doing just the aspirin for now, while you save up for the cardiologist? That's probably what I would do. Start him on the meds now, and put away $5 a week, or whatever until you have enough for the specialist.

I love my pets dearly, and want the best possble care for them, but I'd have a hard time putting myself in debt over them unless it was a major emergency that required the expensive treatment RIGHT NOW or they'd die.

[Dar]

We have a cat we took in as a stray kitten 12 years ago. At the time, we had him vetted and the vet said he had a class whatever heart murmur - the worst number, whatever that was. They suggested consulting with the feline cardiologist. At that point we were totally broke and I was pregnant with Rain, and we just laughed.

So, that's little Pepper, now 12 and going strong. He sleeps with Rain every night and has never had any health problems related to his heart. They did do some different anesthesia stuff when they put him under for oral surgery, because of his heart (the murmur is still there, every new vet we take him too calls in all the techs to listen because it's so bad) but he came out of it just fine.

Dar

[girlndocs]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

if the cat is FIV positive (just like HIV), then he is likely to be a high maintenance cat and will probably get sick again (and again and again).

I don't know that this is necessarily true. My darling childhood cat was FIV+. When he tested positive the vet emphasized strongly that he could still have an enjoyable life. Well, he did ... he lived to be 16 (!) The only extra care he needed was pain meds for his arthritis, and some coddling when a heavy book fell on him & injured his spine.

Now I live in a house full of FIV+ cats. The first cat we adopted was semiferal and probably infected when we took her in. We know for a fact that she and her son are FIV+ --she most likely gave it to him in utero or during birth. We have 3 other cats besides those, so we proceed on the assumption that they are all FIV+.

They're indoor cats, well-cared-for and loved, and I have not noticed a higher rate of infection or health problems than in other cats.

[spero]

I'm resurrecting this thread, b/c Sammy had his yearly check yesterday and the vet said the murmur is worse. We never started the meds last year - some of you know that my DH & two of our kids were in a very bad car crash just a couple of weeks after I posted this thread; and in the aftermath of the accident, DH's extensive hospital stay, and months of recovery, kitty's health concerns took a backseat.

I just had to come back and read the posts here to reassure myself. We are going to immediately start Sammy on aspirin therapy and BP meds. The vet also gave me - can you believe there is such a thing - prescription treats, Sammy has a bit of a tartar prob and our vet says that can contribute to heart issues.

Originally Posted by Mom4tot

"he could drop dead just eating, at any time from a stroke".

OK, this was almost exactly what the vet told me yesterday - that Sammy could experience "sudden death, paralysis, stroke, sudden intense difficulty breathing," etc. That freaked me out a bit - esp since Sam still has those little wheezing spells now and then. But then, I thought - Geez, that could happen to any animal. And I remembered that Sammy is an otherwise healthy, active cat.

So, I'm rambling - but I just wanted to thank you all again for the kind words and good advice. Even almost a year later, it's still helping.

Oh, and mods - could you pls move this to the Pet forum? Thanks.