My dh is adamant about circumcision...

[amyandelle]

We are not ttc again yet but we have been discussing having future children. I brought up circumcision last night and told my dh that if we do have a baby boy sometime in the future I do not want him circumcised. My dh was very adamant that "our son" will be circumcised. He is not open for discussion AT ALL on this subject and told me that since I don't have a penis I don't get to make that decision : I just cannot even imagine putting a baby through that horrible ordeal and for what? Cosmetic reasons? My dh says that the kids will make fun of him when he is older and that he will have a higher chance of getting STD's :

So my question is how did you convince your dh's not to circ? My dh was circumcised at 5 years old becauce he was a preemie (born at 26 weeks? I think) and his penis was not big enough to be circumcised. I don't know why in the heck they waited until 5 years old though!!!! But anyway, he said he remembers it and it was not painful so he is not even going to discuss it any further with me. Help me!!!!
Amy

[gethane]

Since he doesn't have a uterus, it'll be awfully hard for him to have a baby by himself then, won't it?

My husband was convinced simply by being educated about the risks of circumcision. He knew it was just cosmetic, and when he found out that boys have been forever deformed from it, never to have a normal sex life, he said "Of course we don't do it then!" Until I told him that boys had been deformed, and even died from circ, he didn't know that.

[TiredX2]

My dh was very adamant that "our son" will be circumcised. He is not open for discussion AT ALL on this subject and told me that since I don't have a penis I don't get to make that decision

Well, personally I would be very adamant that "our son" would be left intact. I would be open for discussion, but not change my mind, since I am the only one who's genitals have been left intact (and, do, infact have a female "foreskin"---clitoral hood) I would make that decision.

Honestly, though, I would start with the idea that we were both parents and should decide things together. Would he be open to your decision to circumcise a baby girl? I am the only person able to bfeed, but DH is adamant that his children should be bfed. Should he get no say? There are so many aspects of parenting that are easier with two, I would start by reminding DH of that.

I think it would be fair to insist that DH has actual arguments *for* the proceedure (rather than just insisting it is done). You can rebutt those as they are presented. And, of course, he cannot actually *insist* that your son is circumcised--- he is not the only parent and if you inform your DS's doctors to NOT circumcise, your DH can generally not override that.

Good luck.

[kristyn]

i would show him as many videos and photos depicting the actual procedure that i could find... you might try looking at a few ladies signature lines around here.. i would also try to find personal stories of men who have been left permanently deformed by circ. and cannot lead normal sex lives, and see if he feels like he could look your possibly deformed son (goddess forbid, of course) in the eyes and say "sorry son, i wanted your penis to look like the other kids"..
also, if he is worried about what other kids will think, then you can tell him that routine circ is on the decline in north america, and is not practiced at all in many parts of the world.

[mattemma04]

Originally Posted by amyandelle

He is not open for discussion AT ALL on this subject and told me that since I don't have a penis I don't get to make that decision>>>>
[SIZE=1]

And just because he DOES have a penis does not mean he has the right to do as he wishes with his son's penis.

<<<<My dh says that the kids will make fun of him when he is older and that he will have a higher chance of getting STD's>>>

Both untrue.Have him prove either.Turn the tables.And as a recent thread pointed out-anyone caught looking/commenting on another persons penis is the one who will be teased for looking so closely.

<<<So my question is how did you convince your dh's not to circ? My dh was circumcised at 5 years old becauce he was a preemie (born at 26 weeks? I think) and his penis was not big enough to be circumcised. I don't know why in the heck they waited until 5 years old though!!!! But anyway, he said he remembers it and it was not painful so he is not even going to discuss it any further with me. Help me!!!!
Amy

>>>>

Whether or not it was a painful event is totally irrelevent.What matters is that your dh wants to mutilate future sons for no valid reason.Tell him flat out-You have no right and I will not allow it.All your *reasons* to circumcise are foolish,and even a few minutes of research can prove it.So make him prove that the the majority of countries in the world advocate circumcision.He can not.Only the US pushes it for the $$$$$.

My dh was also circed at age 5 because he was unfortunate enough to be born into a religious family that circs.He also says it is not a big deal. I really don't care.Just say no. I never did convinve my dh.He is stubborn and so are his mgm obsessed parents. Best wishes to you. Perhaps in time though research on his own your dh can come to terms with his own loss.Not being able to discuss the issue rationally shows he has not come to terms with his own cut penis.

[AnnMarie]

Simple, tell him NO! Give him stuff to read, make him watch a video, but above all, just don't let it happen. You have the power to protect your child. Ask him if you wanted to circ your daughter and you felt he had no say because he doesn't have female parts, would he be OK with that? Tell him that you are not, and there is no way you will allow this to happen to your son.

[Nathan1097]

See if you can find any info in my site (in my sig). There are stories from mothers, doctors, nurses.... Information on pain, function of the foreskin, videos. pictures.... complication pictures.... Just see whatever you need and print it out.

[Thmom]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

Well, personally I would be very adamant that "our son" would be left intact. I would be open for discussion, but not change my mind, since I am the only one who's genitals have been left intact (and, do, infact have a female "foreskin"---clitoral hood) I would make that decision.

Honestly, though, I would start with the idea that we were both parents and should decide things together. Would he be open to your decision to circumcise a baby girl? I am the only person able to bfeed, but DH is adamant that his children should be bfed. Should he get no say? There are so many aspects of parenting that are easier with two, I would start by reminding DH of that.

I think it would be fair to insist that DH has actual arguments *for* the proceedure (rather than just insisting it is done). You can rebutt those as they are presented. And, of course, he cannot actually *insist* that your son is circumcised--- he is not the only parent and if you inform your DS's doctors to NOT circumcise, your DH can generally not override that.

Good luck.

excellent points. I think starting with "we are better parents together than apart" approach will get you further than beating him with a stick, which of course is option #2 lol

[kristyn]

he may be crude, but i think that dan savage makes some good points here, and thier not from the ultra anti-circ perspective either, so maybe easier to relate to?

http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2004-10-28/savage.php

[A&A]

Check out this article:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

[amyandelle]

Thanks everyone!!
I will show him all of the links when he gets home. I like the idea of letting the Dr.'s know that we ARE NOT going to circumcise before the birth!! Knowing how forgetful my dh can be maybe he would totally forget that way there will not be an argument in the hospital!! :LOL :LOL
Thanks,
Amy

[crayon]

I am so proud of you for wanting to protect your childs sexual organs First off, I didnt have to talk my DH into it, he is pretty much a spokesman for anti circing- but in your case, I would stress some of the basic facts to your DH. Fist 43% of american boys and 80% of world wide boys are intact. You should contact www.nocirc.org and get them to mail you info, they will do it at no charge! I would think with your DH having been circed at age 5 may play a huge mental roll in this. You have to address this with care. The problem is even if he doesnt remember the pain, or will not admit there was pain, we all know there was, and perhaps he has a fear "what if I have to do this to my son at 5? I dont want him to remember what I remember!" It maybe a fear more than him not wanting to. I would also talk to your PED, or find an anti-circ ped and have them talk to your DH. Also, you must point out that the chance of him getting teased in school is so small- the truth is the kid that would point out his intact penis would be the one getting teased for looking at another guys penis! And nearly half the boys your son would come in contact with will be intact. It is a very large myth that "all boys are circed" and that for some reason your son will stick out like like a sore thumb.

Hugs, the people on this board are here to back you- and I look at circing like everything in parenting, if one parent says no- then the answer is no- period! If one of us didnt want to vax then we would do it- if one of us said no to a overnight party then the answer is now- circing is something that your son should choose in his adulthood if he feels the need, it is not something a parent should take from him. It is after all HIS sexual organ and it is his birth right to be intact.

Also you can find a lot of info on problems with circing, and also dont forget the problems adults have after infant or adult circing- as in E.D. and painful erections. These things are very serious and can cause pain and emotional pain to a man. It is not the right of a parent to take a perfect baby and cut up his working organs! That work perfect!

Hugs to you mama- keep fighting!

[Quirky]

The one thing I would suggest is not barraging him with all the links, videos, data, stories, etc. all at once. I think it will be overwhelming for someone who has a lot of defensiveness around the circ issue like your dh (and my dh) and he will probably shut down and feel "argued at" and not want to listen.

You have a while before this is an issue.....you have time. You don't have to convince him tonight! Take it slow, and before you do anything read the article A&A linked about the vulnerability of men so you can get an idea of where he is coming from.

My dh was fine with leaving our ds intact (not that he had a choice) but I think the biggest reason I've never been able to convert him to feeling as passionately as I do about it is that a) he has a penis that he now knows is not all it could have been and b) he has parents whom he loves who didn't protect him from circ when he was born. So he has two big things to protect - first, his male ego/sexuality/confidence, and second, his image of his parents as loving and concerned for his welfare. Admitting that circ is wrong, harmful, bad attacks both of those principles that are part of his identity.

I'm not saying you have to allow your son to be circed to protect your dh's ego - that's the last thing I would say. But I know from hard experience how easy it is to go charging in armed with all the statistics and facts in the world and run into what is basically a non-factual, non-rational core of beliefs that may be irrational but are also fundamentally important to him. You have to tread carefully when their defenses are so high.

[Galatea]

I just put my foot down and said I would divorce him before my son would be circ'ed. Tough, but I was serious.

You might try having another man talk to him, if you know any IRL who are anti-circ?

[shishkeberry]

I only showed my dp one video. Only one and he was a changed man. He really had no idea what actually happens during a circ.

[Rach]

My boyfriend isn't circ'ed. He went through Jr. High, High School, and the Army, having to shower in front of other guys.
I asked him how many of them were circ'ed and he said he didn't know because he never looked down. He said it was an unspoken rule in the gym and in the ?barracks. lol
I'd have to tend to agree. Do you honestly think men are going to sit and compare? All your son has to say is "Don't make fun of me because my parents didn't cut my foreskin off."
Fine. Let him say you have no say because you have no penis. But tell him to keep in mind that he has no say either becasue it's not HIS penis you're talking about, it's your son's!!
My sister's boyfriend wanted to circ my nephew and she told him that if he wanted it done, she'd let him...but only if HE got circ'ed first!! Needless to say, my nephew is not circ'ed.
Good luck with TTC.
I can't believe they circ'ed your husband so late! But I don't believe him when he says it wasn't so painful. I remember my labor and emergency C-Section very well, and I can't remember the pain at all, but I *know* it was so excruciating!!

[aNewMamma]

Amy,
I was in your shoes not long ago. My husband was also circ'd at 5 years of age and has no unpleasant memory of it. He was very insistent even before my pregnancy and after we knew we were having a boy the arguments got fierce and heated. All I can say is - keep at it. Do all the research you can, and give him all the information that would justify not going through the procedure. That said, this is only the scientific/rational side of the issue. If this is an emotional need as it is for many, he may never accept the rational arguments. Don't lose your head and simply ignore statements that suggest that some decisions are for one parent and not the other - while you should be sympathetic and understanding of your husband's needs, you have as much right in deciding this, as every other issue about your son. In my case, I just kept insisting & in the end, even though he didn't agree with me completely, he respected my views and today we have a beautiful two month old who is intact. It is well worth fighting for that - good luck & don't lose heart. Many of us have endured this fight and won...
R.

[ma_Donna]

I'm sorry that you're both so far apart on this issue at this point, but so proud of you for bringing it up so early!!

Fortunately my DH felt the same as me. He has one argument against it, which I think is the best - it's your son's penis, so it's your son's decision

It may also help for your DH to know that circumcision rates are going down drastically and your son will be far from the only one that isn't circ'd.

Also, there is no medical reason to circ. If he's afraid of your son getting an STD he should teach him about always using a condom :LOL

Good luck!

[Sustainer]

You've gotten some great advice. Most of the things I was going to say have already been said by others. Just a few more things:

My dp is intact. He says no one has ever made fun of him.

I have talked to men who were circ'd as adults and who have had sex both with and without a foreskin. Every single one of them said that sex was much more pleasurable with a foreskin.

I have talked to MANY women who have had sex with both intact and circ'd men, and every single one of them said that sex is more pleasurable when the man has a foreskin.

Did anyone mention the Fleiss articles?
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

Definitely read the Vulnerability of Men article. And definitely make him watch a video of a circ.

I agree that you should ask him if he shouldn't have a say about mutilating the genitals of a daughter, since he doesn't have female genitals?

I also agree with pointing out that the circ rate is 50% and falling, and by the time your son is in school, the circ'd boys will be the odd ones out.

I think these 5 yr olds getting circ'd are blocking out the pain memories.

I personally would never consider ttc with a man who did not agree with me about circ.

Whatever happens, stand your ground! Protect your son. If his mother doesn't protect him, who will? He won't be able to protect himself.

[Divina]

None of my sons is circ'd. I asked my teenager (16) if he has ever been teased or had any problems as a result and he said no. Well, first he looked at me like I was nuts, then said "no", and said it's never, ever come up. He doesn't know how many of his friends are intact or not, either.

Didn't have any problem convincing either of my partners about this. My ex is European and intact. My DP is cut, but had no strong attachment to having it done and was very open to the information I had.

Personal experience, I noticed no difference in sex w/ intact and cut men. (At least not due to the foreskin or lack thereof).