Friendly conversations on Ezzo...

[sunnmama]

...or Dobson, or whatever....
What do you say when these things come up with acquaintances? You know....you are just chatting with another mama at work, or at church, or wherever, and they ask you if you have read/used Babywise? Or some other such book?

So, what do you say? Do you open up a conversation? Do you simply say "No." and change the subject quickly? Or do you grimace uncontrollably and make no coherent points (as I did yesterday : :LOL )

[Elphaba]

I say something along the lines of "Yes, I thought it sounded promising until I read that the AAP condemned it and warns parents not to use those methods because of the risk of FTT and failure of breastfeeding."

That's for Ezzo. For Dobson, I would just say that I disagree with the methods in those books and I found some other books that I was more comfortable referring to.

[Kathryn]

I know who Ezzo is, but who is Dobson? Just as bad I'm assuming?

[phathui5]

Dobson isn't as bad when it comes to babies. He doesn't pretend to know about breastfeeding or their feeding schedules. He is, in his books though, pretty anti-gentle discipline.

With Ezzo, if I'm talking to another Christian, I always drop the fact that he was excommunicated- twice. Especially nowadays, it takes a lot to get a church to kick you out. And at least one of the times (probably both) the trouble was directly related to his books.

[townmouse]

You all are better women than I!

I learned about Ezzo last year when we accidentally joined an Ezzo church/cult. I studied it for a year, did some activism, helped with the Detroit news story, etc. I didn't save one baby in that church, and got myself thrown out of it (Thank God).

But it was the worst year of my life, trying to open people's eyes to the evils of Ezzoism!

Now when I hear the words "Ezzo" or "Babywise", I slowly turn redder and redder until I am purple and then the profanity begins : . Usually takes me a day or two to quit shaking.

[LianneM]

WOW, it's REALLY hard for me to not come across totally biased about Ezzo. Which is fine, I guess. It's come up once - my friend who'd recently had a baby grabbed it while we were at Barnes and Noble and laid it on the table, saying, "Have you read this one? My friend so-and-so swears by it." I looked at it and tried to keep from throwing up... and then I said, "I haven't read the whole thing but I know what it teaches, and it's definitely not for me. I really disagree with his philosophies on babies." Turns out she didn't even know what it was about, so I was able to nicely explain, and she agreed that CIO wasn't for them either. WHEW!

Dobson hasn't come up yet, except with my husband when I let him know one day that, as much as we do like a lot of what Dobson says, he will not be our source of info for discipline. DH was really surprised so I explained why and he agreed. I'm quite certain Dobson will come up with my friend mentioned above, b/c just last night we started a discipline discussion. (They are planning to spank - know how I feel about it and respect my feelings, and are usually willing to listen to WHY. Thank goodness. The baby is 8mo and she mentioned last night that they're going to start reading books on discipline. Both come from families that spanked - no GD at all - very authoritarian.

[maya44]

WITh Ezzo I do what the PP said, say "wow, the AAP says his methods are harmful, I would never do that"

With Dobson, I say, "it's a shame people think that you have to punish kids, I never do that." People are usually shocked when I say that (especially because my kids are unusually polite and well behaved (around other people, they are not perfect at home, but that's ok.) They usually bring up how good my kids are and I say, well see you don't need to punish to get that.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by maya43

With Dobson, I say, "it's a shame people think that you have to punish kids, I never do that." People are usually shocked when I say that (especially because my kids are unusually polite and well behaved (around other people, they are not perfect at home, but that's ok.) They usually bring up how good my kids are and I say, well see you don't need to punish to get that.

I say similar things sometimes (but not as well...), and have a similar situation (dd is *golden* around people she does not know well. She has clear understanding about considering other people and such, and acts like the "model child"). But I have difficulty expressing what I do other than punishment. And people tend to see me as very extreme in this area. I *am* pretty extreme in my opinions about hitting children, of course. I have a very hard time being diplomatic about that.

I may just steal your quote, Maya. I like your wording. That pretty much sums it up without too much grimace and disgust

The AAP recommendation is a really good response. I think I might actually bring that up with this mama next time I see her...or maybe I should just let it drop

[UnschoolnMa]

I am unfamiliar with Ezzo firsthand, but from what I have heard it's not a good thing. Dobson on the other hand is all ick to me. I have a friend that thinks he is the greatest thing ever (her church has hosted him speaking I think) and we just disagree totally there. I just express that I think he is very wrong, and it's sad that people feel they need to treat children that way.

[calpurnia]

Who is Ezzo? :

I had to ask who the Pearls were as well - that was an eyeopener :

[sunnmama]

Ezzo wrote On becoming Babywise, and Childwise (for older kids), and maybe some other crap

He is big on schedules, and teaches that babies who don't eat enough at one feeding should be denied more food until the next scheduled feeding. That'll learn um!

[Kathryn]

: ok, who are the Pearls?

[mommaluv321]

: ok, so I havent gotten much reading done either....who? what do they talk about? if someone could sum-up all these ppl I'd dearly appreciate it!

[phathui5]

The Pearls are into stuff like hitting your baby with a switch.

[Terpatude]

I have never heard of the Pearls, thank goodness. I was given a copy of Baby Wise when DS came home at the age of three and half weeks..I had never heard of Ezzo at that time..it took all of three paragraphs or so to realize that now way -no how was I going to treat my baby that way...The Pearls sound positively hideous...My children are now 11 and 12 years old and I have used GD and both are well behaved well adjusted children who have never been hit by a switch..That makes me sick to even think about .......

[Jordansmommy]

Originally Posted by phathui5

The Pearls are into stuff like hitting your baby with a switch.

[Kathryn]

:
Why do people do stuff like this!!!???

[Linda KS]

I say that yes I am familier with them but that they just weren't right for our family and then I change the subject.

I admit it, I'm a wimp.

I don't like to talk about these things with people who feel differently than I do.

My whole family just loves Dobson. I took such much crap from them during the toddler years because I didn't smack my kids around. My mom is still in shock that my kids are lovely and well behaved. She can't quite figure out how it is that my kids are so much easier to be around than my sister's kids, who have been spanked, yelled at, punished, bribed, etc.

[Viola]

Hey, I wonder if there is an anti-EzzoDobsonPearl bumper sticker out there. Ezzo and the Pearls are a little more out there and I don't think are necessarily as well known, but even I had heard of Dobson. I think he is enough in the mainstream that people don't realize how bad he can be in terms of punishment.

[famousmockngbrd]

Do a Google search for Ezzo or Babywise, then do one for the Pearls or To Train up a Child. Then be prepared to feel ill. I think Ezzo is pretty bad but IMO the Pearls are the worst of them all. Those people seem to truly hate children. The most sickening thing to me is that ALL these people - Ezzo, the Pearls, Dobson - use Christianity and the bible to defend and support their violent, disrespectful childrearing methods! What is with these people?

I have a hard time explaining what exactly I do besides punish, too. I think it's because it's such a situational thing, I can speak about it in really vague, broad terms but how I put it into practice varies so much depending on what's actually happening at the time. For me it's much easier to do it than to describe it.