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Friendly conversations on Ezzo... - Page 2

post #21 of 110
I used to do home-based services for children who had developmental delays. I was assigned one little guy with a speech delay and his parents were completely on board with the " Train Up a Child" philosophy. I had to look it up so I could learn what they were talking about. I had to have a sit down discussion with them and tell them I was completely against them stricking their child in my presence and if I ever saw any marks on him I would report them. It was such a slippery slope because I am supposed to be culturally sensitive and saying "I think you people are maniacs" would have surely gotten me fired. I tried to gently offer them alternatives, but they adamently refused.

There child displayed a number of heartbreaking stress-related behaviors including nail biting and pulling out his own hair-HE WAS TWO! We (me and the staff) knew these behaviors were directly linked to their choice of punishment but they refused to believe us.

Interestingly enough, this mother and I had the same doula, so I hear updaets on her occasionally. She has since had another child (yikes)
post #22 of 110
I say, "oh-- the Ezzo book? Gosh, have you heard about the controversy surrounding that book? Did you know that parents have starved their babies by following his method? It's just a scary concept to me - starving my baby, so I don't want to have anything to do with it" -- I kind of play it like I heard it on E! or something so that I don't sound like I"m preaching - but yet I keep on with a couple of more examples so that at least I get my point across. And hopefully they listen.
post #23 of 110
I love that Magnoliamama. Because, well there is controversy, and that way of sharing information makes it more approachable. I am wary of invoking the AAP, given their stance on other issues, namely co-sleeping. I would rather just say, this is what I heard. Let them hear it, and try to let it go.

Not that I could do that, mind you. I just like the idea. I have never actually spoken with someone who practices those methods, I have only read about them. My reaction would more likely be stammering nonsense, straight from my gut.
post #24 of 110
Luckily no one has ever brought up the Ezzos or Pearls around me. My mom used Dobson's methods on us though. I vividly remember being spanked with wooden spoons as a child. There's video of me on my third birthday getting my 'birthday spankings' from my grampa. I was crying because I though I was in trouble. How sad is that!? Of course, my whole family thinks it's just the funniest thing. Yuck.

My mom was also telling me about how when we were toddlers she used to sit us down at the table. She'd put a cookie (or something else she knew we'd want) on the table in front of us. Then if we tried to grab it she's swat us on the hand. This was how she taught us to sit quietly in church (and other places). She was so proud to have the only young children in the church who were well behaved enough to sit in the service. :Puke
post #25 of 110
Can someone give me a little overview of what Dobson is all about?

I once accidentally bought one of his books.... I was at the used bookstore and went a little crazy with the parenting books (his name didn't ring a bell at the time). I got home and read the back, and realized he was president of that foundation (forget the name) and immediately put it in the "trade" stack.

Well, first I looked at his chapter on homosexuality. :LOL That was good for a laugh! He has a great understanding of homosexuality.... not!!!!

Anyway, what is the basic gist of Dobson's method?
post #26 of 110
My skin crawls when I think of Ezzo. My mom had given me the Babywise book when my first son was born. I was obsessed to know when other people's babies were sleeping through the night. I never really followed his plan because I felt so bad letting my baby cry it out. I tried letting him cry it out on a few occassions and it felt so wrong. I was always embarrassed to tell people that he was still sleeping with me and nursing. Of course back then, I thought he had to quit nursing when he was 12 months and weaned him straight to a bottle at about 16 months.......LOL, oh the things I've learned. I was a young momma (19) and I spent my first year as a mom feeling inadequate because of not being able to put Ezzo's principles into practice.

Before having my 2nd child, I moved a couple of states away from my hometown and met a very crunchy momma who took me to an LLL meeting where I met all these women who mothered the same way I had been mothering (except I was hiding in the closet and they were open about it). I was so excited to know that it's ok to do those things such as cosleep, extended breastfeeding, antivax, etc. What a relief to find out that I wasn't a failure after all.

WHen I run into people who want to talk about Ezzo, I basically tell my story if I know them and if I don't know them well, I tell them about the media alert and the babies starving, etc.

post #27 of 110
The dobson method basically centers on spanking. He does have creative parenting ideas mingled in with it occaisionally, which is why he is so popular. I was raised on his books - even read them as a kid so I could figure out what my parents were doing. I read the Pearls book while pregnant. It was during my research on breastfeeding that I learned about gentle discipline and I finally figured out why I have so much anger towards my parents - I always have. They were always calm and 'loving' when they spanked us, but I still remember seething with hate and being so angry that they just didn't talk to me about what I did wrong. I was the kind of kid that would have listened without the spanking. I guess it made me a great rule follower - grew up to run off and join a cult for a while! After getting free from all that (shortly after dd was born) my husband and I have questioned everything - that's when I re-examined my thoughts on punative parenting.

As far as how I answer others on all these topics, I give copies of an Ezzo warning brochure out to any friend I even hear of to be pregnant - try to get to them before the Ezzo-ites!

post #28 of 110
I encourage an actual conversation why they are chosing those authors. They might have already read or been trying some AP parenting and didn't feel it was working for them so are looking for other ideas...and perhaps you can find something that is more for them.
I was one of these parents and found it and still get upset when I am made to feel like a bad mother because I decided to try some ideas that worked for me but came from someone who doesn't support AP parenting.
We sometimes forget that there are extreames on both ends of the spectrum and sometimes people are just looking for new ideas and something that will work for their family, which don't have to include starving your baby or CIO or spanking just because you read a certain author.
post #29 of 110
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
Can someone give me a little overview of what Dobson is all about?
The thing that always comes to mind with Dobson....He says that pain is a purifier

He also compares parenting to training a dog, and describes how he beat his dachsund into submission (no, he didn't use the word "beat"....)
Have I got the correct here, or was that one of the other ones?

As for my acquaintance, after posting and talking to a few friends, I've decided to find a Christian article that is anti-ezzo, and also one that describes the feeding controversy, and offer these to the mama. I think I will just say "When you mentioned the book, I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was, but I knew that I heard heard the name and some sort of controversy. Ijust had a bad feeling. So I looked it up, and found some articles you might want to look at."

Sound good?
post #30 of 110
I dunno about Dobson - my parents listened to him RELIGIOUSLY and they never spanked.

Quote from my dad, though: "about 10 years ago he started getting weirder and weirder and then he went off the deep end, I wouldn't listen to a word he says now."

If CIO or Ezzo come up (rare, because almost everyone in my family and DH's family co-sleep, bf, etc), I just say that it seems so cruel and I could never do that. Since I have very well-behaved almost-5yo and 3yo kids, I have never been told that I am going to spoil them. When they were younger I would just say something like "we don't do that" and leave it at that. I feel more confident now that they're a little older and obviously are neither stuck on me all day nor spoiled rotten.
post #31 of 110
Thread Starter 
Please read the sticky at the top of the forum. This is a gentle discipline forum, and posts that advocate corporal punishment are not allowed here (or on MDC at all, for that matter).

Ok, so thanks to the links posted here, I've got a tri-fold pamphlet, a statement from an MD explaining the dangers of the parent-directed-feeding (and its opposition to the aap recommendation), and an article from Christianity Today that lists many concerns about Ezzo's books and recommendations. Thanks!
post #32 of 110
Just as a note, Ezzo was only excommunicated once. He left 3 churches under a cloud, two of the times related to his books.

His publisher also dropped him. He now self publishes his books. That's a pretty strong move for a publisher to take when the book was raking in plenty of profits.

post #33 of 110
I've never read Ezzo personally or Dobson, but I was given Shepherding a Child's Heart by Tripp. It said we should spank our children and tell them G-d told us too!!!! I never read any further, what crap! That is one way to turn a child off of our faith faster than a cat runs from being sprayed with water!

A woman at our church gave me this book for a shower gift with number 2. This from the same group of ladies who were discussing their spoons one evening. I had no idea what they were talking about, then I realized they carry a wooden spoon for spanking everywhere they go!!! "Hands are for lovin', spoons are for spankin'" -- crap ohla again. I couldn't believe I missed this lesson in child rearing and survived with a gentle gracious well behaved 3 yr old boy! I guess she thought since I was in the dark about spooning children as punishment, then I needed to read this book.
post #34 of 110
Originally Posted by nikirj
I dunno about Dobson - my parents listened to him RELIGIOUSLY and they never spanked.
I can see how that *could* happen--he actually is fairly moderate when it comes to the spanking advocates. He says you really shouldn't be spanking a child before the child is 18 months old, and that spankings should be reserved for serious infractions. Still not *my* cup of tea, and I really pray that someday the world will come to have more respect for children...but not as bad as Pearl who thinks you should use "the rod" for training--i.e. set the child up to misbehave, then strike the child; or Tripp, who defines an 8 month old struggling during a diaper change as willfully defiant and in need of corporal punishment.

Originally Posted by nikirj
Quote from my dad, though: "about 10 years ago he started getting weirder and weirder and then he went off the deep end, I wouldn't listen to a word he says now."
Ummmm, yeah! What's with EVERYTHING being about homosexuality? 5 year old boys should shower with their father because seeing Daddy's penis will have prevent the little boy from becoming homosexual (we're pretty loose about nudity in our house, but this one had us in hysterics). Dobson has become a running joke in our house. We have two daughters then two sons. Recently we ran out of "Toy Story" pull ups for our son, and we had some Disney Princess pull ups left over from back when our second DD was wearing them, so we used them for our son for a day. Every time we would have to get a new one out we'd say "oh no, don't tell Dobson, Jason is headed straight to a life of confusion over gender issues and homosexuality!"

post #35 of 110
Hate Dobson, Loathe Ezzo and can't even fathom the Pearl's.

That said (and I am not advocating anything here) I want to make it clear the for most people CIO and Ezzo feeding have NOTHING to do with each other.

I am not saying CIO is right just that most CIO advocates (AAP etc) fully and totally advocate feeding on demand.
post #36 of 110
Electra375, get this, my sister broke a wooden spoon on her 6 year old son tonight and she "only smacked him once" with it.
post #37 of 110
Originally Posted by Electra375
I guess she thought since I was in the dark about spooning children as punishment
When I hear the word "spooning" I think of snuggling. Sad to think that some children will think of being beaten when they hear this term, that for me is so full of warmth and love.
post #38 of 110
Quote from my dad, though: "about 10 years ago he started getting weirder and weirder and then he went off the deep end, I wouldn't listen to a word he says now."
That's really interesting. My parents were Dobson readers -- they spanked rarely and not abusively. (I know some consider any spanking abusive, but I certainly didn't feel abused and have no resentment toward my parents about the spanking.) Or home was loving and nurturing. So my impression of Dobson has always been only mildly negative. I've chosen not to spank, but my biggest beef with him (even as a young teen) has always been his stereotyping of gender roles. : I haven't payed a bit of attention to him since I was a teenager, so I wasn't aware he'd gotten more "out there".

For anyone who has Christian friends who respect Dobson (perhaps his older, "less weird" titles?), it may be helpful to make them aware that Dobson's organization "Focus on the Family" has put out a statement in which they discourage people from following Ezzo's methods because of the physical danger they expose babies to, and because of Ezzo's questionable credentials as an upstanding Christian. They throw "happy" Ezzo followers a bone at the beginning but it gets pretty negative after that. Here's a link. http://www.ezzo.info/Focus/FOTF_9-04.htm
post #39 of 110

opposite views

I am familiar with all of the people being discussed and have read all of their books and seen the accompanying videos. Regardless of all we've read, whether we agree with the methods or not, we've done what works with our two children.

With Ezzo I would like to thank the couple for keeping me sane in those first few months with DS. I put him on a schedule right away but also co-slept, wore him in a sling and attended LLL meetings. I wanted him to fit into my life and for me, cannot imagine being at his beck and call 24 hours a day. DD did not conform to a rigid schedule as well as DS but we eventually figured each other out. One of the Ezzos videos is about breastfeeding and goes into more detail than I heard at most LLL meetings.

We (DH and I) have read enough of James Dobsons, the Pearls and To Train Up a Child to know we could never carry them out to the enth degree. That's what I would say to anyone asking about them. If the person was level headed I'd say go for it. If they are fickle, unsure of themselves or given to extremes, I'd discourage it. Case in point...an acquaintance I know took the Ezzos video course and went clear off the far end with it. She did not successfully breastfeed which may or may not be attributed to the video. She told me that if she had a boy she wouldn't even try nursing him because she didn't want him to be too attached to her! So, her thinking was scewed to begin with.

My opinion about all child rearing methods is use you head...use your best judgement...use what works for that individual child. No one method knows your child and will work for all of your children.

post #40 of 110
The Pearl philosophy is that children shouls be trained in the same way that animals are trained. Pain.
They fail to mention that animals that are trained like that often turn...
The Ezzo method had ended up in more than a few cases of "failure to thrive" and several deaths...
When people mention "Train up a Child" to me, I usually tell them my parenting methods are almost exactly opposity of that.
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