UC Support Thread #12 -- December 2004 - Page 9

[KateSt.]

Jennie, Thanks so much for the validation. And YES, I know what you mean about "regaining" your power over your pregnancy. I feel I have to sort of regroup after my meetings with the mw's -- no matter how positive they are. Last night during a meditation, I was able to "see" my baby's position and he was head down already. Saras confirmed that today and at first it made me feel good, but then I realized I didn't need that confirmation. Or the confirmation that I'm measuring exactly right and that I'm healthy. I already feel I know all these things....
I don't know what I'm trying to say. Just that I seem to feel most content when I DON'T go to the mw's. *sigh*

Anyway, I'm so glad you're getting the uc you want, Jennie. I do agree that being on the same page as our dh's is so important.

[cottonwood]

Kate, I know exactly what you're saying. There is such a thing as a self-fulfilled prophecy. And besides that, some things just are subjective. Two different people, given the same situation, will have different abilities to deal with it, depending on their attitudes. Something that is a "problem" for one person will not be for another. Simple as that.

I was also going to say something about the possible effects of continuing a relationship with your midwife, but I can see from your above post that you already know these things, and are totally aware of them on a felt level, even if you have a hard time articulating them. (And just to be clear, I'm not implying that it's inherently a bad thing to have a midwife do this or that, just that for some there may be trade-offs.)

[annakiss]

I think that the idea of self-fulfilling prophecy is a valid one, but it's also about perception. I am personally seeing a midwife who I plan to have available to me and though in one sense I too could do without her, in another sense, I don't see it as an issue, but just another tool in my toolbox. If while in labor I feel the need to call her, then I will. If not, then I won't. It's not a matter of what I need now, but what I will need then. Going on my past labor, I think I can do it all alone, but I also really appreciated the help that my attendants provided and was grateful for it for what it was. That was then, this birth could need different support, or none at all. But I don't see having the midwife as backup as a Plan B, I see it as an option. It's not either this or that, where one plan has me successful and another has me failing. It's just another tool I can utilize if need be. I see it the same way I see having a birthing tub or a yoga ball. I don't necessarily plan on using those things in labor, but I plan to have them available to me if that's what feels right at the time.

I suppose that goes hand in hand with my views of unassisted childbirth as well, though. I don't see UC as the right way to give birth. I don't think there is a right way. I see it as an opportunity to follow my own instincts most truly. That is not to say that I cannot truly follow my instincts under other circumstances, or that having assistance is counter-intuitive to doing so, but that it may give me the space to rely fully on myself. It's simply a personal curiosity, I suppose.

I also believe that the advice to moms-to-be to seek out resources for support for breastfeeding and parenting is very valid. It may not be what every woman needs, but many women do not have the built-in support they may need to feel successful as new mothers. I think the advice comes from women who have struggled, as most (though of course not all) women have. I don't think that it's indicative of a general fear of parenting or of childbirth or of breastfeeding, but rather an indication of compassion for the process, the journey of new motherhood. As a second-time mother-to-be, I find myself more scared now than I ever was the first time around. And yet, I am at peace with whatever will come to me. If it is a struggle, then I will deal with it and if it is bliss, then I will accept it. But I'm not going to discount it by thinking that it will be simply fulfilling and ecstatic. Whatever happens, I will be changed and my family will be changed. There is bliss in that, but there is also an inherent struggle - the back and forth of change, the joy and the sorrow. I do not have a looking glass into the future, I have only my own intuition. What I need may very much be what someone else does not, but it does not invalidate either objective.

[sprinkle pocket]

hey kate, i hear you on the bf'g books. i tried to read a couple with the idea that i'd be better prepared later and better able now to read them. blech. it was sooo not what i need. i just need to have my baby in my arms and give it a whirl. if i need help, there's my friends, books and lactation consultants galore. but the faith in my body that i can uc, feels like the same faith in my body and my baby's body that he/she can be nourished by me. until there's a problem, well, i just can't prepare for that unknown. there's too many of them. so, yeah, i'm with you. same with the mw dilemna. i talked to a friend of mine who's a new mw, and supposedly uc-supportive, but she was all about the validation/getting information thing. after we talked, i was bugged by hearing her give me her "professional" opinions unrequested. i don't need to hear her say that it sounds like i'm doing well, et al. then a couple days ago i talked to another mw friend who's been at 100's of births. it was soo rad! she's sooo uc supportive--totally gets it. she said she's been at over 400 births, but only delivered 2 babies--hers. she said she feels like uc-ers are carrying the torch for the collective unconscience, keeping the knowledge alive of how to give Birth, b/c we've strayed from it. and on and on. she said that she couldn't tell a woman how to give birth, but she can refer women to mw's that think they can if that's what they want. she said she sees her role at a birth as staying out of the way and holding the space for the woman to give birth. ahhhh, it was really nice to hear all the things she said. the only thing she said about how i was doing was what any friend would say at the beginning of the conversation--"how're you doing?" now that's my kind of mw (and friend)!

i've been out of town for a while and will be for another while, but i wanted to check in and try to catch up on the posts. i'm pedaling as fast as i can... i'm coming up on the 3rd anniversary of losing my dad (who was literally my best friend), so i'm enjoying time alone to reflect on all that's happened since then and where i'm at with it.

welcome naomi!! beautiful birth story!

welcome new mamas!

[majazama]

Hi everyone... I haven't been online in awhile cause our computer wasn't working, but I'm back

I skimmed through the posts and just want to say..... YAY NIKI!!! And I'm so happy for you, Brandi!

also, I noticed that "rainbowmoon" was going to go see a doc because of a bump on her cervix... I've had those for both of my pregnancies, and they're called "nabothian cysts". They are benign, and pop out when you have all those growth hormones going through your body. Hope that is all it is for you. I wouldn't worry.

[KateSt.]

Thanks so much for all the feedback, Mamas.

Annakiss, I've tried telling myself exactly what you've said in your post -- that my mw is just another tool for me to use in case I need it. I know that my dh feels exactly that way. I do wish I had more flexibility in my views about my mw, but I think I'm too much of a black-or-white thinker. Dh even said yesterday that one of the things he loves about me most, but what also frightens him, is that I focus on the positive so much to the exclusion of the negative. In my mind, me and dh alone = good; me, dh, and mw = bad.
Instead of thinking of my mw as a tool, I'm focused on the "trade-offs" Linda mentioned in continuing our relationship. I really don't think I'd be able to focus fully on myself and my baby with my mw in the same house or even on the phone. This is something I'm struggling with. I'm torn between having my expectations too high or letting my expectations create my reality.
And all I know is I'm still trying to regroup after my visit...
I appreciate your words very much and will continue to ponder them.

SprinklePocket -- what your mw friend said about uc'ers carrying the torch for the collective unconscious gave me wonderful chills! That's beautiful!
I'm so glad you can relate to what I'm saying, too -- from one first-time mama to another. I also feel that the faith I have in my body to uc will carry into other areas of parenting.

Linda -- yes, those trade-offs...I'm already not looking forward to my next appt in 2 weeks! I'm telling myself this is a reasonable compromise because I still get the birth experience I want. But I can't help but feel with each visit to the mw, I'm giving away some of my power. I intend to talk to dh about this tonight and I don't think he'll like it -- he does wish I could be more flexible. Flexibility...where does that fit in with creating our reality through expectations? Something I've been trying to figure out my whole life!

[mwherbs]

I think you should just cut your midwife loose. Mainly because you think that you are compromising and not in a good way. With every relationship I compromise, my DH, my kids, my parents , my friends, clients and people who provide services for me like my car repair guy. With the people I want in my life I don't focus on the compromise most of the time,I may think about it and consider what someone is capable of , mostly it is just who we are in relation to each other. You get together with a MW and then you don't want her do what she does, you don't even want her to talk about it. Now if you weren't pregnant and just wanted to know her as a person then this would probably work out. But you want something from her and you don't want her to use the ways she knows how to do things to figure out if she can do this- You may not need the information gathering but she does for her own decision making process in this relationship. If the situation was reversed you were the care provider and she the client- what would you do?
Why would she want to be on call for someone she doesn't know and this person doesn't really want to know her either except for emergency?

[KateSt.]

mwherbs -- yes, I've thought of that. My dh (and my mw) and I have talked about what we would feel in the reverse situation. Dh and I have care-provider role in our jobs and we agree that if someone only wanted us there for part of our services, we would turn them away because we don't feel we'd be doing our job to the fullest, and they'd be missing out. I offered to my mw yesterday to cut all ties and she said she doesn't want to do that. We do have a history together -- we've known each other for a year and a half and she's been wonderful support through my 2 mc's. She even said if I was just a new patient she wouldn't be pursuing this, but she likes and respects dh and I so much that she does want to be there in some way. I guess we're just having trouble seeing eye-to-eye on the way she wants to be there...
I'm still thinking it would be easier for everyone to cut all ties, but I just don't know...

Thanks so much for your perspective.

[Mama2Lennon]

on reading about breastfeeding

When I was pg for ds I read everything I could, being a first time mother and all. I just couldn't get the how-to books on bf, I don't understand any written directions, I need someone to show me. Basically I found them useless and mostly filled with everything that could go wrong. The only useful thing about them was that I discovered that my funny "kid" nipples were really inverted nipples but I have still to this day to see any useful info on inverted nipples. What I did find useful to bf was reading things like the Compleat Mother, real stories from real womyn about how wonderful bf is. It was the political aspects of extended bf in our culture and why it is so important for children and how large companies and "scientists" took it away from wimmin and children that had me convinced that bf was the only way to go. That is what sustained me through painful bf in the first months, nothing else, there was no other choice in my mind. I learned myself what I had to do with my nipples to make it easier on them, but not until ds literally sucked pieces of them off! This is not meant to scare anyone but to show that if one is committed to bf, it will work out. The belief and commitment is more important than the "knowledge" or facts. It probably helped that I grew up hearing my mother talk about how bf was orgasmic and better than sex! :LOL

[cottonwood]

I am so extremely sensitive to others' energy. I begin to lose my sense of self because my sense of *their* self overwhelms me. I get the feeling from reading other birth stories that this is not the case for a lot of people. Or it is, but not to enough of a degree to be a deciding factor in the birth choices they make. But it certainly was for me!

Re: breastfeeding, I myself had trouble starting out, but I've also seen so many people have their instincts completely undermined by approaching it as something that needs to be learned, and I've seen situations in which lactation consultants gave bad advice, so it makes me wary of bringing in "experts" before a problem has even presented itself.

[Pam_and_Abigail]

I keep coming back to these threads because I want an UC so bad. I'm just thinking about asking our mw how late she's willing to show up.

What about checking your own cervix? How do you do this? Is it even necessary, or do you go more by instinct? Can I teach dh to do it?

[amyjeans]

We never checked dialation during labor. For a few reasons:
1-the last dialation check done by my x-ob(just before she was fired), was about 2 cm and the process was very painful. 2-with our concept of UC, we chose not to go the "medical route" like timing, and dialation because we felt these things were more of a hinderance than benefit to our birth. 3- We felt that having a number was like a countdown, and knowing the stages of labor based on the numbers, made us feel like there was a time limit, and that would provide nothing but anxiety for us during birth.
The toughest thing we had to overcome was trusting my body to do the right thing. Once we let go, our UC was wonderful.
we're trying for #3 already!

Warm Regards

[KateSt.]

Amyjeans -- your reasons in number 3 are the same reasons we're choosing not to check dilation or time contractions, either. I keep hearing in my head "just let it happen." Pam and Abigail, I hope you get the birth you desire.

Linda -- YES, that is me you describe in your last post. I've tried conveying this to my mw that I would be too sensitive to sublties in my environment and would pick up other people's energy, but if you're not a highly sensitive person (there's a whole book about this, have you read it?) I don't think it's easy for others to understand.

I've come to my decision and am cutting all ties. I'll invite her over after the birth to see our baby but at this point I just want to go inside myself and be comfortable and content with my decision and the whole process. Thankfully dh was in full agreement and once I made this decision, I felt as though a weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I've written her a letter that she should get early next week. I feel really good about this.

Happy New Year, Mamas!

[annakiss]

Linda, Kate - You're right that that's not everyone. Which I think is sort of the beautiful thing about people, now isn't it? That we're all so different! I had eight people at my first birth and there was only one instance in the 6 hours they were there that I became even aware of them. That one brief moment has helped lead me to consider UC, but I do not color my birth with that second at all. It was just a second. I was so deeply in labor that what other people were doing or not doing was irrelevant. I drew deeply into myself. I did not think, all I did was birth. Because I was so in my body and because there was absolutely no thought in my head (I describe myself as having been bowled over by my labor, there wasn't time to think) the presence of others did not affect me except for in my brief moment of clarity. I'm also a ham in general, so that might have helped. I'm still interested to see, however, what I'd do with nobody there at all.

[majazama]

Originally Posted by blueviolet

I am so extremely sensitive to others' energy. I begin to lose my sense of self because my sense of *their* self overwhelms me. I get the feeling from reading other birth stories that this is not the case for a lot of people. Or it is, but not to enough of a degree to be a deciding factor in the birth choices they make. But it certainly was for me!

I'm very much like that as well.

When I first started BFing, it was not a picture of happy momma sitting in a rocking chair with a big smile on her face.....no...... My DD had what the MW called a "baraccuda" latch, and my nipples were bleeding and had scabs and nursing was so painful before I knew it. I NEVER considered giving my newborn baby anything other than breastmilk, even though every time she latched on, for about 3 weeks, I was almost in tears. And that was with the MW giving me "directions". I think it would have been like that no matter what, cause I'm very fair-skinned, and with a latch like she had, I didn't have a chance (:LOL). And she's still nursing to this day. I think I have nipples of steel now.

Advice on bfing, try to get as much of the areola into the baby's mouth as you can. And try to get the baby's mouth as wide as it can go by "teasing" (stroking the nipple around the baby's lips so they open up *real wide*) That's about all that you need to know, I think. I guess that might not help, but I thought I'd throw that in there.

[rainbowmoon]

KateSt.- I'm so happy to hear you have the issue with the mw resolved! yay! now you can sit back and enjoy the rest of your pg!

mamajaza-yep I have read about those cysts. I am pretty sure that's what it is because it comes and goes it seems but still would like to get it checked out for peace of mind, yk?

[Ame]

Congrats Niki

Brandi....I look forward to your hjouney to baby ! I'm thrilled to peices for you

I wrote Damien's birht story ....you can read it here

[Aurora]

Originally Posted by blueviolet

I am so extremely sensitive to others' energy. I begin to lose my sense of self because my sense of *their* self overwhelms me. I get the feeling from reading other birth stories that this is not the case for a lot of people. Or it is, but not to enough of a degree to be a deciding factor in the birth choices they make. But it certainly was for me!

Same here.

Originally Posted by blueviolet

Re: breastfeeding, I myself had trouble starting out, but I've also seen so many people have their instincts completely undermined by approaching it as something that needs to be learned, and I've seen situations in which lactation consultants gave bad advice, so it makes me wary of bringing in "experts" before a problem has even presented itself.

Ds#1 was born at 32 weeks by emergency c-section. Not only were his lungs not developed fully, he had contracted GBS in utero and his lungs were very infected. He spent 3 weeks in the NICU and was taught to suck with a binky and they were not very supportive about bf. I pumped and ds was fed that exclusively. Right before we brought him home we were able to try bf and he screamed when I tried to put my nipple in his mouth. The hospital LC gave me a nipple shield and he would tolerate that a bit better. He liked the plastic. We were sent home when he could suck from the bottle well and I tried my best but he wouldn't nurse much. I was soooooooo scared of him not eating enough because he was so small and the nipple shield made me just raw and bloody. I finally just stopped trying and pumped and bottle fed him.

When dd was born I was determined to nurse her, but as it turned out I wasn't determoned enough. She was another c-section and I almost died. I had a LC come look at us and dd's latch. She popped her head in and from across the room pronounced the latch "perfect". It wasn't. I let it continue that way because I had been told it was fine. If I had listened to myself I would have fixed it, I knew something wasn't right. I got severe mastitis, dd was losing weight and I had PPD. My ob talked me into ff her so I could get better.

When I was pregnant with ds#2(my UC baby)I learned a lot about myself and I learned to trust my body and my baby. I read The Motherly Art of Breastfeeding and lurked on the bf boards here. I talked to a friend of mine who had bf 2 children and was a doula and asked her if she would be willing to come after the birth if we needed her. She was happy to do it. I didn't need her though. I chose to believe and trust that baby and I could do it, and we did. Ds is 14 months old and nurses like crazy.

After all of that I guess I am trying to say that I think being prepared is a good idea but I have seen where outside "help" can be the worst thing to bring in.

[ChildoftheMoon]

Thank you everyone for the congrats and well wishes.
Just feeling quiet and content. I am just 6 weeks, so not much to report.
Back to lurking and reading...........
Brandi

[majazama]

rainbowmoon~LMK what the doc says about em', as I've never had mine checked out. I just did a search on the net about it when I was concerned, and was glad to read that they are benign and not contagious or anything.