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an Ethical question concerning diapers - Page 3

post #41 of 69
I already chimed in above about my opinion on copying the diapers. I just wanted to say that with clothing therereally is nothing you can do if someone copies your designs. If someone copies your designs & puts your logo on them and says they're yours then you can sue for trademark infringement but that is only when they use your company name. My guess with the Walmart case is that if they copied an entire line it is easier to prove, otherwise in fashion they were just "inspired" by your line.

I'm not sure how it works with diapers though, they are a bit different than fashion. Though, as someone said, if your only making it for personal use its not a problem.
post #42 of 69
post #43 of 69
Not in my opinion, as long as you're not selling them. If you sold them, that'd be another story.
post #44 of 69
I don't think it's unethical if you are doing it for your own personal use. Heck, if somebody loves my diapers and wants to make some for their own personal use, they are welcome to trace one. When they are done with it, I wish that they pass it on to another mama who might otherwise not be able to afford cloth diapers. Then, you are using my products to put a baby in cloth that might otherwise not be in cloth!

OTOH, when you take a diaper, stretch it out, and try to trace it, it won't come out exactly the same. Your best bet is to buy a pattern. It's just easier.

I've been wanting to buy the Fern & Faerie pattern just to have it! I mean... it's an awsome diaper, and well known... who wouldn't want a pattern?

Also, if you are going to make... say... 6 diapers. You will want to purchase either hemp or organic cotton - or another nice absorbant material. Unless you purchase large quantities, these materials are expensive. You will most likely want to do aplix, since snaps are expensive to get... snap press, dies, etc. I spent about $200 on a press, dies and snaps. By that time, you could buy more diapers.

I've heard some people say that they just used old recycled towels, etc. I tried that when pregnant with Emily, and they take forever to dry, etc. Recycled t-shirts, on the other hand, were soft and worked great.

Teri
post #45 of 69
Quote:
I am a WAHM. I make diapers. If someone wanted to copy my diaper (just for their baby) I would not be at all offened.
Ditto.
post #46 of 69
Quote:
I am a WAHM. I make diapers. If someone wanted to copy my diaper (just for their baby) I would not be at all offened.
Ditto for me. I learned to sew by copying well fitting clothes and making my own.
post #47 of 69
I also agree with those that say it is not a big deal as long as it is for personal use and that unless a person totally dismantles a diaper it is very unlikely that they will have a close end product to the original. There is no way I would be taking apart a well loved and hard to attained diaper!
post #48 of 69
I agree that it's fine for personal use. If someone copied my dipes for personal use, and I was assured it wasn't for reselling, I'd be flattered! I wouldn't consider it a loss at all.

My mother's first husband was a singer, very underground in the 60's. He died a long time ago. Just the last five years, his music has become so popular in Japan it hit #1 on the charts. The rest of his band has been performing at concerts, signing autographs, posters, new albums with unreleased music, other Japanese bands are covering their songs - it's crazy. One day one of the band members called my mother to give her updates, and said, "There's even a bootleg ring going around!" "WOW!" said my mother, "If it's getting bootlegged you KNOW it's loved!" And they had a laugh. Because it's true. Albeit not a great way to show it, it is a backwards form of flattery.
At least you're not selling the dipes. Just my two cents.

Also, FWIW... many big name diaper hyenas have strikingly similar patterns to some older patterns. :
Everyone had to start with an idea somewhere. Not that I condone copying and reselling AT ALL, I'm just bringing up a point. BTW, tracing for your own use isn't exactly copying a pattern as much as it's just a basic visual guess - there's no way you're going to get it right. Also, like others brought up, it's not illegal, even diapersewing.com shows someone tracing a dipe.
post #49 of 69
I don't think it's too bad - though I wouldn't want to be passing them off to others.

I think there's a saying that goes like this "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomniamama
Are you kidding? You can cover your child's bum in anything you want!

Now, if you plan on selling them (or selling these that you have made for your child) later on, you're asking a different question. And we're talking selling them as used diapers on eBay.You would have to mention that you copied the design of such-and-such diaper and disclaim any affiliation with that product line. And it would be diplomatic to mention that the reason you did so was because you couldn't afford the real thing. There are some things money can buy, for everything else--there's a sewing machine. In my opinion. And the creator of that product can only be charmed and understanding that a.) you enjoy his or her product and b.)would do anything you could to use it, even if that meant making it yourself!
I would just like to point out that the current copyright laws state that any original pattern that is created is covered by copyright protection whether or not the pattern writer uses the copyright symbol.

Therefore, if this is an ethical question, rather than one of opinion, the ethical thing to do is to write to the pattern maker and ask permission, no matter what you plan to do with their pattern.

Now, I know that many WAHMs aren't opposed to this sort of copying, and that many people do it. However, that doesn't change the fact that the copyright laws still exist.

That's my 2 cents.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaB
My take, FWIW, copying ANYTHING is unethical. The WAHM spent lots of time, money and effort working on that "special" pattern and that pattern has made her the saught after diaper artist that she has become. Do what you wish I guess, no one will find out as long as you don't take pictures or sell them (and I'm pretty positive you are not the first to think or do this) but karma is all I keep thinking. As a WAHM, I would be pretty peev'd if I found out someone copied my ORIGINAL and wonderful (if I do say so myself) designs. There are ALWAYS ways to obtain hard to find diapers. Friends passing them along, Ebay, WAHMChicks, TP, or just stockings. It's just a diaper and I think people get a little too carried away sometimes. By carried away I mean *I* feel copying is not right.

What an interesting discussion. I haven't read past this post, but I wanted to comment on it. First of all, if you're going to call diaper making "art," then you have to be prepared for those impressed with your art to mimic it. All great artists started off in apprenticeships copying the original. It is one of the first steps in creating great art. That said, I believe my initial reaction would be to consider courtesy. Although I think it is perfectly legal to copy it for your own use, it may behoove you to ask the WAHM for her permission, being quite explicit in how you intend to use it. Then, you may have peace of mind. If she says she'd rather you not do it, then you'll have to rethink your decision. I agree with Dreamingmama that you are in essence taking away business from a WAHM by copying the diaper and not buying the original. However, the diaper may not be available for the next umpteen years. And here, I'm talking of El Bee diapers. If I decided to copy the diaper, it really doesn't affect the WAHM at all bc it's not possible for me to get one from her anyway! If I could, I would!! These are not complete, but rather initial thoughts on this matter. I reserve the right to change my mind! :LOL.
post #52 of 69
Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. If I go out to eat at a restaraunt and I like the pasta, is it copying if I try to make a similar dish at home? Do I need to ask the restaraunt owner for permission? This is just for personal use, I think it's silly to ask permission to try to duplicate for one's own use. JMO
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleteapot
Also, FWIW... many big name diaper hyenas have strikingly similar patterns to some older patterns. :
Everyone had to start with an idea somewhere. Not that I condone copying and reselling AT ALL, I'm just bringing up a point. BTW, tracing for your own use isn't exactly copying a pattern as much as it's just a basic visual guess - there's no way you're going to get it right. Also, like others brought up, it's not illegal, even diapersewing.com shows someone tracing a dipe.
ITA!
post #54 of 69
Nothing wrong with that at all. They are just for you so I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. If I ever get pregnant again I'll probably do the same with my old cloth diapers.
post #55 of 69
FYI, copyright laws only cover literary works; musical works, including any accompanying words dramatic works, including any accompanying music pantomimes and choreographic works pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
motion pictures and other audiovisual works sound recordings architectural works. They would not cover a cloth diaper or pattern. This would fall under Trademark Laws; Trademarks are generally distinctive symbols, pictures, or words that sellers affix to distinguish and identify the origin of their products. Trademark status may also be granted to distinctive and unique packaging, color combinations, building designs, product styles, and overall presentations. Under state common law, trademarks are protected as part of the law of unfair competition. Registration is not required. This is where a cloth diaper pattern would be protected.
post #56 of 69

I do know people who copy for thier own purposes

and I do not think ill of them in any way. But the reason I feel threatened by this is I am not like other women. I cannot get a job outside my home due to an illness I have. All I have is my online business. I cannot just say to hell with it and go work for someone outside my home. Employers do not put up with the upteen doctor visits I have to do yearly. I guess I put myself in the shoes of that wahm that might be being copied and thought oh good grief what if everyone starts copying and I have nothing at all to depend on anymore. I hope everyone can see where I am coming from.
post #57 of 69
I think most sewing WHAM's sew dipes becuase they want or need to save $. SO wether they sew a diper for a traced pattern, their own pattern etc, I think they will still sew a diper either way. One thing I thought was a great idea is WHAMS selling diaper patterns. Maybe you could offer one of these to help out sewing WHAMS and get compensated for your efforts?
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeasetree
I agree with Dreamingmama that you are in essence taking away business from a WAHM by copying the diaper and not buying the original. However, the diaper may not be available for the next umpteen years. And here, I'm talking of El Bee diapers. If I decided to copy the diaper, it really doesn't affect the WAHM at all bc it's not possible for me to get one from her anyway! If I could, I would!! These are not complete, but rather initial thoughts on this matter. I reserve the right to change my mind! :LOL.
ITA. If you are copying something like an Elbee or FCB than I don't really see how you are taking business from the WAHM(S), as they can't even keep up with the demand for their dipes, kwim? OTOH, if you are copying a lesser known dipe that just sits around instock then you are definitley taking away business.
post #59 of 69
I think it's ethically fine as long as the diaper is used only for personal use. Any personal diaper sewing is going to take me off the market regardless of what pattern or example I use....

What to do with the diaper after first hand use is a bit more dicey and is a judgement call of the sewer....

I could see that arguement going either way....A) Giving that diaper away might take a potential customer off the market or B) giving that diaper away might increase customer demand for those particular diapers by awaking the inner hyenna of someone who might have otherwise opted for some other type of diaper or C) make no difference at all because they would have used sposies or gerber diapers otherwise.

I think that ethically the home seamstress should make an effort to see that the person she passes them on to falls in the last category....
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingMama
and I do not think ill of them in any way. But the reason I feel threatened by this is I am not like other women. I cannot get a job outside my home due to an illness I have. All I have is my online business. I cannot just say to hell with it and go work for someone outside my home. Employers do not put up with the upteen doctor visits I have to do yearly. I guess I put myself in the shoes of that wahm that might be being copied and thought oh good grief what if everyone starts copying and I have nothing at all to depend on anymore. I hope everyone can see where I am coming from.
I see where you're coming from. Luckily, most of us mamas don't sew or can't sew nearly as well as you and the other coveted diaper artists, and there will always be demand for beautiful diapers.
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