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Should I just let go and let her lead the way? (All opinions welcome)  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hi Mamas

How many of you make daily/weekly plans, or even keep a mental list of daily have-to-do activities (ie: reading, writing, math)? (Whether it be a curriculum or your own eclectic combo of materials/ideas.) And how many of you do not? Either way, how is what you're doing a help (or hindrance) for you and your dc?

I am asking because, after homeschooling for only 2-3 months now, I have come to a crossroads. Up to this point I have kept a fairly detailed planbook which I have outlined (ahead of time) all "plans" for each week (no details, just the basics). In the beginning it worked great to help guide us from activity to activity. But it soon came to the point where the plans were getting in the way of doing what came naturally. For example, on Mondays I had planned to do math, language arts, social studies, art and spanish...But come Monday dd was more interested in doing weaving, science, storytime and an art project. So I would cross out all my plans and write in what we really did. We very rarely stick to what I have planned. So tonight is the first Sunday night that I am leaving the planbook empty for this week. I am going to let dd lead the way this week and see what happens. I will suggest and encourage certain ideas/subjects but for the most part I will let her divert as much as she wants as long as it's productive.

I am slowly learning, thanks to many Mamas here, that learning is far more valuable when the desire comes from within. I am changing my ideals of what education is all about. But the teacher in me has not made it easy to just let go of how I have been conditioned to teach. So I am a walking contradiction right now :LOL.

There is this worrywart on my shoulder that says dd needs to keep up with the standard 2nd grade curriculum. For one thing, she has not shown much interest in reading and math lately. I have let go of the reading but now it is math too. And I am worried that next month it will be writing, or whatever, to the point that she is no longer learning any of the "core subjects". Her strengths clearly lie in the arts. She is always interested in anything that has to do with arts (drawing, weaving, clay, cooking, crafts, etc.), and I am behind her 100%, but how to encourage her into the traditional subjects too? She may re-enter PS, maybe as soon as next year IF she wants to, and I want her to go with confidence if and when she chooses to walk that road. But at the same time I want her to have a natural love of learning and see it as positive rather than something she had to do to meet the needs of the "norm". Ugh. It's a fine line isn't it? Just want to hear your thoughts...
post #2 of 20
You already know she will learn more when what she is learning about is relevant and important to her, it's just fighting that school mindset. It is so hard to do (at least for me)! You might try to focus on how she may be picking up some more traditional core stuff from the arts she so enjoys. There is math, history, science and reading in all the things you mentioned. Also, now that I'm seeing my 2nd child learning how to read "late" (9 yo, 1st ds was 10), I am a firm believer that children do not need to be taught to read, only read to and given access to books and books on tape. Help when they want it.

Hang in there...I'm sure you'll find balance that will work for you and your dd.

btw....I think it's great your dd weaned at 7.5. We have a 5.5 yo. who is going strong and holding the record at our house.
post #3 of 20
We make zero plans. Well, about learning anyway. We make all sorts of "life" plans The plans we make are going to the park, remembering we need to go to the grocery store, planning a trip to the library or the museum. We have no schedule for learning subjects or the like because we unschool and see every bit of life as our education. I agree that alot of the process is just undoing in your head what you've been taught about learning and education. So basically, though I am almost certainly biased toward unschooling, I say that anything that is interfering with the spontaneous moment to moment learning is no good.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mother_sunshine
But the teacher in me has not made it easy to just let go of how I have been conditioned to teach.
This is me too, but I'm working on it. I keep remembering how even my best "lessons" and most creative "assignments" in school still did not inspire all my students, probably not even the majority if I look at it honestly. I also remember the students that I know would have learned more if I had been able to let them self-pace their studies (I had to give district written 6 week exams and report to the district office the results). Furthermore, those students wouldn't have been so discouraged about math and school if they hadn't been set up for failure by a system that only grossly took into account their prior knowledge/interest/skill level.

I've said more than I meant too. Just wan'ted to say, right there with ya sista!
post #5 of 20
I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but I think my niece is a little older so this may or may not apply.

I tend towards order and details, I like lists and I need to see progress in all things, so we're doing TWTM, which was the most orderly and precise curriculum I could find for homeschooling. I am a TCS parent, however (which more naturally leads to unschooling-- non-coercive parenting-->non-coercive homeschooling... makes sense, right? :LOL) so we reach common preferences in school things.

My niece loves math, science, and grammar with me. With no guidance at all, I believe she would choose to do these three subjects 9 days out of ten. I found out that the reason she didn't enjoy her phonics and spelling lessons was that I seemed to be deciding arbitrarily how much she should do; we compromised and I wrote dates at the top of her pages. She rarely does the work on the date (she likes to get ahead) but knowing what I expect of her each day makes her job easier. Same goes for history, and eventually for foreign languages. She doesn't enjoy reading, either, but my sister bought Hooked on Phonics and she absolutely loves that, so she practically begs to do some every day. She also really likes teaching her cousins & sister, so I give her "assignments" from "Slow & Steady, Get Me Ready" to do with BooBah & BeanBean, as well as smaller things to teach her sister (a 4 year old with Asperger's). She also asks for these assignments every day, and I love it: I don't have to find extra time, and my babies are getting some enrichment from an enthusiastic teacher. It's adorable! :LOL

In other words, we decide in advance what we're going to (try to) do each day because she and I both need it that way. We require a schedule, and without it we both feel sort of adrift an unable to function. I recognize that this is not the case for everyone; my husband is not a schedule-in-advance sort of person, and a schedule would get in the way of him doing anything at all. (Ironically, a major aspect of his job is, literally, to make schedules for other people and see to it that they keep them; he's very good at it, too. :LOL) In that respect, her learning is child-led; she and I decide together what we're going to do each day, and write dates at the tops of the pages for at least a month (again, because she likes to "get ahead.") With this method, she has already completed most of a first grade curriculum, and will probably finish second grade just as quickly (though I'd expected her to slow down.)
post #6 of 20
Mind you this advice puts asside what may be required by your state - so check that first.

I agree with you why write it all down if you aren't following it anyway. You are wasting your own time. It may be worth while to look everything over see if there are any gaps or anything specific you feel you want to include, but trust your instincts and follow her. Then journal or scrapbook her accomplishments. You would be supprised how much she really has accomplished without planning.

You can also try to weave in (sorry for the pun) some of the core subjects that you feel she is missing with the subjects she loves. How about taking a folk art class or visitng an arts museaum? How about teaching an arts and crafts class and have her do everything from invites to writing instructions? How about when she shops for supplies give her a set spending limit that she has to stay within? It is all there if you look for it - Science can even be found in making soaps or candles.

Good luck!
post #7 of 20
I make loose plans but stay flexible. You have to figure out what works for you -- no plans doesn't work for us because my kids end up fighting with each other. Unflexible plans don't work for us because my kids end up fighting with me! I never let my plans get in the way of my kids learning!

One of the best things I have done for my kids' education is take them to the library every week. If I were you, I would help your DD find books on the things that interest her. If she can read at least a little, she can improve her reading while learning more about weaving or cooking whatever. Would she like to collect recipes or write a letter to a friend? This could be a lot more fun than "working on writing."

Chances are your DD will go far beyond the standard 2nd grade scope and sequence. My kids are interested in so many subjects that they wouldn't get to for years if they went to school.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for your advice and support.

Well, it is around 10:30am and I have already gone back on my word. I told dd that she could choose what to do today and in what order, but reminded her that when she chooses math last then she usually ends up tired and frustrated. So she chose math first. (We are doing Singapore Math 2nd grade and she is not even finished with the first half of the 1st semester books.) She is usually very good at math and has been eager to do it up until recently when a new concept (carrying over) was introduced which she has struggled with. Today we ended up frustrated with each other so I asked her if she wanted to draw for a while before continuing with the workbook. I told her to let me know when she's done with drawing and math, then she whined about me leaving to go on the computer. I told her that I can't sit and watch every single thing she does all day long, that if she needed help to let me know. I wish I was that patient but I just can't do it and remain sane. I need breaks too. She doesn't seem to understand this. I love spending time with her but not every minute of every day:. So now she is miserable and tired and I am miserable and tired, and it isn't even lunch time yet. I feel like I did when I taught a whole class full of kids. I am still torn on whether to push her like this or not because she is beginning to become very lazy, if I let her she would watch tv or play video games all day every day. I know from experience with her that once she learns something (like a concept in math) then she is more confident and willing to learn more, but if I let her completely lead the way then she will never learn it at all. She will eventually learn certain concepts in math like counting money and measuring just from daily life but some concepts seem to need to be taught first (like ones tens hundreds, what she's doing right now).

I haven't even brought up other subjects like reading. She did say that she wants to write to her penpal today so that's good. With reading I am learning that it is easier to let go and let her do it in her own time, but math is different. Help me mamas!

BTW, as far as writing plans, I am much like those of you who say that you need to have a plan otherwise you feel lost. But I am learning that dd is the complete opposite, so this is still a struggle for me.

Thanks for listening, and for all your help. I need your variety of perspectives. It is helping me find what is best for our partnership (and I know I am still far from there).
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quick update....

Dd just came to me and said that she didn't want to do any more math. So I said okay. She was

Then she promised that she would do more tomorrow. I told her that I didn't want her to do it for me, I want her to want to do it for herself. I know she is at this age where they naturally want to please, but I struggle with that because I want her to please herself...but at the same time I feel she thrives on direction. Ugh, here I go again.

Anyway, she said she was hungry for a snack so I put her in charge of making a "mystery snack". She is happily making something right now and I promised to eat it:LOL.


P.S.
Joan (Joan) and Joan (Mom4tot) where are you?
post #10 of 20
Quote:
How many of you make daily/weekly plans, or even keep a mental list of daily have-to-do activities (ie: reading, writing, math)? (Whether it be a curriculum or your own eclectic combo of materials/ideas.) And how many of you do not? Either way, how is what you're doing a help (or hindrance) for you and your dc?
I do. I keep a lesson plan book and each day I write in what we do. Sometimes I look ahead at the week's lessons and if I think we'll be fine to go on thru, I write out the week. The only thing I have semi-long term plans for is History and Science. It's a huge help to me b/c I can see where we are and if we did anything special (i.e. language arts lesson on letter writing..the next day I have her write a letter to someone instead of going on to the next lesson) I can keep track of it.

I stopped making detailed plans for the exact reason you mentioned:
Quote:
In the beginning it worked great to help guide us from activity to activity. But it soon came to the point where the plans were getting in the way of doing what came naturally. For example, on Mondays I had planned to do math, language arts, social studies, art and spanish...But come Monday dd was more interested in doing weaving, science, storytime and an art project. So I would cross out all my plans and write in what we really did. We very rarely stick to what I have planned.
It also made me feel like we weren't doing well b/c we weren't keeping to "the plans." lol I have my degree too and that was a HUGE hurdle for me to get over!! It took me a while to stop thinking in "public school teacher" mode..and think like a HS'ing Mom.
post #11 of 20
Singapore Math is very advanced when compared to American curriculum -- don't worry about where your DD is in it. Just work on the concepts. If something is hard, take time off from the workbook and play around with the concepts -- do some problems with dimes and pennies or something.
post #12 of 20

math

What about playing board games and card games together? There is a lot of math and problem solving happening. Plus it is so much fun to play together.
My mom did many things wrong but one thing she did right was play with us a lot. We played A LOT of board games. Today I am very good at math, problem solving, and multi tasking.
post #13 of 20
Mama sunshine: If your daughter is 7 and is working on the Singapore level 2 books (2A/2B) - she is actually ahead of her US peers. The second grade curriculum equivalent in the US would be 1A/1B, or at most 1B/2A. That may explain why she's frustrated. My daughter is very good at math. She's 8 (in August) and will finish 2A today.

As far as scheduling, etc. Ugh. We have gone back and forth, around and around, up down, and sideways about scheduling vs. not scheduling, unschooling, vs. having a plan. It always comes back to this: I think I should be unschooling, because, though it really doesn't fit my personality, it does fit my belief system (talk about a walking contradiction! :LOL ). My kids like the idea of unschooling, but in practice, it drives them crazy. So, we keep slipping into unschooling, and then everyone gets crabby, and then we start instituting some kind of minimal schedule, and everyone becomes happy, and then so many cool things come up, that we put the schedule aside, and before we know it, we're back into unschooling - and everyone's getting crabby again.

Hard to explain. I think you'd have to be us to really get it. So...we just keep rolling along. In our family, we do many things by consensus/common preferences. The kids keep insisting that they do not want to unschool. They are privy to all information available to me, and they do not want to unschool. However, they don't like having a rigid school at home schedule either.

Here's what we are doing now: We have materials around for "basics": The reading/writing/math basics, I mean. (Well, actually, we have materials around for many things - I'm a bibliophile ). The kids do something in one to three of these areas four or five days a week. I don't care if they finish this or that at their "grade level." They, however, are very curious and interested in their "grade level" so they seem to want to keep up to a certain extent - at least in math. Writing, not so much. My son (10) is much more interested in academics right now than my daughter (8) is. That's O.K. When my son was 8, he wasn't interested in academics either. We did, at that time, a minimium of the "basics" which took about an hour a day 4 days a week. That's about what my dd is doing right now. Ds is doing about 2 to 3 hours a day - his choice. It doesn't look exactly like unschooling, because he has requested that I "make" him do math, and remind him to read everyday. That's cool. He's such a free spirit, that he doesn't really have a good grasp on that whole pesky time concept, and so he wants me to organize that for him. (It's taken me a long time to figure out that this is what was happening).

At this point, we seem to have the right amount of structure, and the right amount of freedom for everyone. I'm sure next week/month/year, it will all look different than what it looks like today. I'm learning that that is just fine.

As far as writing things down: I do keep a log book, but I log what they/we have actually done, rather than logging what I think we should be doing.

Laura
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Openskyheart
My kids like the idea of unschooling, but in practice, it drives them crazy. So, we keep slipping into unschooling, and then everyone gets crabby, and then we start instituting some kind of minimal schedule, and everyone becomes happy, and then so many cool things come up, that we put the schedule aside, and before we know it, we're back into unschooling - and everyone's getting crabby again.
We have the same kids!

What seems to work for now is for me to have and plan and just follow it without asking the kids what they want, what order they want to do it in, blah blah blah. They don't want to be asked about everything. They think they want to be asked, but it just makes them cranky.

So I have a plan and we start on my plan and then.....something comes up. So we do what comes up. For example, one day I had a nice little plan including the 3Rs and some history, but before we started the plan I wanted my kids to help me hang up the solar system, which had been sitting on my desk for weeks. I had supplies ready and a reference book out so they could help figure out in what order the planets should be hung. I thought it would take about 15 minute. The way I was going to hang them didn't work so we all worked together to come up with another plan, and then my 8 year was reading what order the planets are in and wanted to just keep reading outloud about the planets, and then my 6 year wanted to draw and rocket and hand it from the ceiling and then my 8 year old wanted to make a chart showing how many moons each planet has and the temp on each planet (she got bored before she finished it). And then it was time for lunch. And then they had an acitivity that afternoon, so that was it for homeschooling that day. My plan got us started in a direction, it just went way different than I expected it to, and that's OK.

If I had asked my kids if they wanted to hang the solar system or if they wanted to do math or read a book, they just would have started fighting with each other. If I let them do different things that both need my help, I would go nuts. (I've tried it and it didn't work for us).

Asking my kids what they want doesn't work, paying attention to what they want as we are working does.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Asking my kids what they want doesn't work, paying attention to what they want as we are working does.
So true!

My ds10 read my post after I posted it, and he said he agreed with all of it! :LOL . He said: You're finally really getting it, Mom. I don't want to unschool! :LOL .

Paying attention, paying attention, paying attention.

You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled thread

Laura
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachinmaof3
It also made me feel like we weren't doing well b/c we weren't keeping to "the plans." lol
That's exactly how I have been feeling. This week I have been writing down what we did afterwards instead of pre-planning, but I am still frustrated because it is so much less than we were (both) comfortably doing before. I feel like I am failing to a certain extent. It is almost like our day was more fulfilling when we "traded" activities for what was planned, rather than just going with the flow. Ugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda KS
Singapore Math is very advanced when compared to American curriculum -- don't worry about where your DD is in it. Just work on the concepts. If something is hard, take time off from the workbook and play around with the concepts -- do some problems with dimes and pennies or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Openskyheart
Mama sunshine: If your daughter is 7 and is working on the Singapore level 2 books (2A/2B) - she is actually ahead of her US peers. The second grade curriculum equivalent in the US would be 1A/1B, or at most 1B/2A. That may explain why she's frustrated. My daughter is very good at math. She's 8 (in August) and will finish 2A today.
Thanks . That makes me feel better, and less pressured to put pressure on dd. Together we agreed today that we would go at a slower pace. Though today she didn't feel like doing math, again. So maybe we will take a break and count coins or play games instead for a while (dd and I LOVE games, thanks mama_kass for reminding me ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Openskyheart
I think I should be unschooling, because, though it really doesn't fit my personality, it does fit my belief system (talk about a walking contradiction! ).
:LOL This is me too. It looks like I am in for a roller coaster ride myself as we find our path. Today when we sat down for breakfast dd asked what we're doing today. I said "What do you want to do?" and she got a little frustrated with me. I think she wants freedom but structure at the same time. We ended up doing hardly anything. Argh.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mother_sunshine
I am still frustrated because it is so much less than we were (both) comfortably doing before. I feel like I am failing to a certain extent. It is almost like our day was more fulfilling when we "traded" activities for what was planned, rather than just going with the flow. Ugh
You are not failing! Homeschool is a process.

I'm not new to this. I started reading about homeschooling 7 years ago and my kids have never been to school, yet a month after we started a history curriculum I dumped it and we stopped studying history altogether while I researched what I wanted to do instead. History was going to be our big thing this year and I thought I had it all figured out and what I had figured out was not the right plan for us! I don't think that I will ever feel like I have it all figured out.

A math idea -- use an old egg carton and mark all the spots with a number from 1-12. Have your DD put in the correct number of beans in each spot, and then figure out how many there are all together (78). The easiest way to do this is by grouping them into 10s. Ask her to figure how many beans it would take if the carton held a bakers dozen instead of a regular dozen. Show her this math on paper and explain how putting together 10s is related to adding and regrouping. (This is from Family Math).

Taking a break from your math curriculum is not the same as taking a break from math.

Are you reading aloud to your DD during the day? This is our favorite part of the day. We are really enjoying the American Girls books.
post #18 of 20
I second Linda's suggestion to get Family Math. I also second the idea that you are not behind! My son has been homeschooling since he was 8 (He left 2nd grade after 2 months), and at that time, we totally deschooled for 3 months. Last spring, when he was 9 1/2 - we let go of all curriculum and thought we would be unschooling for good. It didn't work out for us, but my point is - we didn't do any curriculum for 6 months, and he's still not behind.

I believe if homeschooling is going to be successful, it's great to have goals, but it's best to remove those goals from school standards. My son is 10, and just learned his times tables. My daughter is 8, and is easily learning her times tables. Still, my son is far ahead of my dd in math in all other areas. His learning style, and his learning pace, and his order of learning are just fine. Just because a topic comes up next in a book, doesn't mean that your particular child is ready for that topic, or even should be! You can just skip that part, put it away, do fun things from Family Math, or Math For Smarty Pants, or I Hate Mathematics (two great Marilyn Burns books), and then come back to Singapore later. Or, like we did, you can just skip that topic in Singapore, and move on to a different one, and keep coming back to the tough part. Or, you can do one page a day of the tough topic, while you work ahead in other topics. This is what I do with that 30 pages of mental math at the beginning of 2B! Just one page, or a half page a day while we work on multiplication, or fractions, or geometry. You'll be amazed at how easy it will be for her if you wait until she's really ready.

I am a (former) Speech Pathologist. In speech and language therapy, we have a general guideline which is to introduce topics to children at a point when they can be about 70% successful with that topic, and only move on to the next level of difficulty when they are at about 90% or above proficiency at the current level. I keep this in mind when I'm working with my kids. When one of them hits a wall in an area, I back up - make it easy and enjoyable again. Soon, they're sailing along.

You're doing well, mother sunshine.

Laura
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks Linda and Laura

I was so gung-ho with Singapore because it gets straight to the basics and doesn't fool around with a bunch of unnecessary and confusing ("busy work") activities like her other school text (SRA). Dd and I talked about it more today and decided to put it aside for a while until she's ready. She was doing the problems correctly, I just don't think she was ready for it. I will definitely look into Family Math and the others mentioned.

I've been reading A Little Princess to dd. The language is kind-of too "proper" for my taste but she seems to like it because she keeps asking for it. She is a good reader but unfortunately isn't ready to read on her own much, her 2nd grade teacher turned her off to many things that she was enthusiastic about in 1st grade. (Laura, I pulled her out of 2nd grade after 2 months too.)

Thanks for the great egg carton idea Linda, looking forward to trying it. Right now dd is setting up Monopoly Jr. (and she is the banker for the first time), she's so excited.
post #20 of 20
Being the banker is such a wonderful way to work on math!!!!!

I love reading outloud to my kids, and they love it too. I don't plan to stop just because they can read. A Little Princess is a super book. It is British so the language is a bit funky -- you might try and an American book after you finish it.

If you keep enjoying books WITH your DD then eventually she will enjoy them on her own.
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