Daughters of Alcoholics Support - Page 9

[teastaigh]

My children are 9 and 6. They know that I don't drink a drop -- ever -- and not even the wine at church. I've told them that alcholism runs deep and strong and badly in my family and in their dad's. I've told them that I don't touch alcohol because of it.

My sisters don't think my mom is an alcoholic, but she is. She's mean and nasty. As a child, I thought she was like a switch that came on and off. Her worst times were usually right before cocktail hour and before my dad came home. The amount they drank -- in terms of ounces -- wasn't huge -- but it was "required." I remember learning the definition of an alcoholic in 8th grade in health class and being a bit relieved -- something made sense.

I keep my children away from my mom because she's mean and nasty and unloving. We see her when I feel I have too -- the day after Christmas, her birthday, some day near Mother's Day ...

She's always been able to drive, though she's aggressive and scary behind the wheel. I'd never, ever let her mind my children or drive them anywhere. I've made this clear in our will as well.

peace,
teastaigh

[Squasher]

Still Picking up Pieces

Thanks for the welcome, GypsyMary! If an adult woman knows a car is coming at her with a driver at the wheel who intends to run her over, and she throws her adolescent son in front of the speeding car and steps out of the way, you really think she isn't worse than the driver? I do not bear any hate because I understand it was a matter of fear and self-preservation. My point was that a son in that position should call the police or get some other adult to intervene in the best interests of all trapped in the horror.

[pottermama]

Hey everyone! I just found this forum today and I probably couldn't use the support from everyone more than I need it today. My father is an alcoholic. And lately he has caused more problems in my life than I can even begin to explain. I also have a 16 yo sister who still lives with him. My parents are divorced and I have had to play the mom roll with her. Any how, lately my dad has been trying to pick fights between me and my dh. And then today he started cussing me out in front of my kids. I am so overwhelmed right now that all I can do is cry. When I stand up for myself he makes me feel weak. How can I get him to back off? Has anyone dealt with this at all? I am to the point where I want to tell to go away and stay away for a while. Sorry I just needed to vent.

[mata]

I'm sorry you're dealing with that, pottermama. Is it realistic to put some distance between your father and yourself? I've found focusing on myself and calmly setting the necessary boundary, and not being so concerned with the reaction to be very helpful. i.e.-when your father is abusive to you in front of your children-saying something like "I will not tolerate being spoken to this way-particularly in front of my children. Until you speak to me respectfully, I am leaving/you need to go." That will probably rile him further at first, but don't give up. Feel good that you're speaking up for yourself-that's what's important. If he's not willing to change, then you can decide whether or not you want him in your life-you always have that choice.

[MommyofPunkiePie]

My father (with whom I have not spoken to in 12 years) has some brain damage as a result of a fall (don't really know for sure, he doesn't know too much apparently). He's lost bladder and bowel control, can only walk assisted, and has little to no memory. My brother is petitioning the court to get guardianship so he can pay his bills and whatnot. I don't have a car (since my accident), so I can't really get guardianship. Anyway, he's being put into a nursing home on Saturday, and chances are that he will never come out. My bro can't find his money and he's so damaged he can't tell him where his bank accounts are.

Anyway, I have been thinking a lot about him lately (since I found out he has no memory). I don't know if it's philosophical (or moral or even ethical) thinking, but this is how it goes: If the man who said all those horrible things to me is *gone* and a new man, albeit a babbling idiot--but still my father, has replaced him, is it time to wipe the slate clean and pretend like nothing happened? Or forgive him? He told my brother why he didn't speak to me (because I didn't attend his parents' funerals) but in his alcoholic haze seemed to forget that I hadn't spoken to him for four years previous to that. So if he has no memory of this resentment (that an apology would have cleared up), do I *lose my memory* of the past and go see him? Do I let him meet his granddaughter? He did manage to come to my Grandfather's wake and funeral.

As I am typing this, I am crying the first tears over my father since I was 15 years old. Half my lifetime ago.

I am so torn. Part of me says, "Screw him, he got what he deserved." Another part is saying, "He's a vegetable, what's it going to hurt?"

Samantha

[cking]

I just came across this thread yesterday....Glad to see it's here.

I'll give my whole story in a minute, but I want to reply to Samantha first.

My father (the alcoholic in my life) passed away eleven years ago. I was 19. I never really had a relationship with him. He had actually quit drinking a year or so earlier, but it was just in time for me to go to college and avoid seeing him. I wasn't ready to have a relationship with him then either. And I was also so jaded by that point, that I didn't trust him. I didn't really believe that he quit, or that he wouldn't start again soon, as he had done many times.

But as we look back, it seemed like maybe he knew it was near the end for him. I always wonder if I could have actually gotten to know him a little better in that last year.

I know everyone is different. But I would say yes, go see him. It can't make up for everything that happened. But it's something, and regret is very hard to live with.

eta: ok, the rest of my story will have to wait until I get home!

[sparklemom]

Samantha,

If you have it within you to forgive, go with it. Forgiving someone else is giving yourself a gift.

[Sea Queen]

I feel that as an adult child of two alocholic parents I have survived.
Survived by separating myself from the hopeless situation at their home.
The weird thoughts that go through my mind when someone offers praise or constructive criticism to me haunts me always. I beat myself up emotionally far worse than the lightest beating my parents dished out.

My father wanted to be part of my life when I was 36. Yeah for him.
My mother never let him be part of my life when I was at home.
He drank, partly to get away from her. She drank because he drank?
Ahhh, but what about me. I matter. I am neat. I am lovable. I think.

I have concluded that alocholism must be a disease because no parent could knowlingly treat their children as brutually and uncaringly and degradingly as mine did.
I have four siblings with whom I have on and off again relationships.
One sibling is diagnosed bi-polar. We think that my mom is bi-polar but she never has had treatment. Secrets, lies, weird stuff about flushing toilets when she is sleeping. Oh my the stuff. When do u stop letting it get u??

Soon I hope.

SQ:

[MommyofPunkiePie]

Originally Posted by Sea Queen

I have concluded that alocholism must be a disease because no parent could knowlingly treat their children as brutually and uncaringly and degradingly as mine did.

See, I can't grasp the whole disease part yet. I *know* it's a disease, but in my mind's eye, I just can't help but wonder HOW a person could choose to use over family.

Samantha

[bu's mama]

Originally Posted by MommyofPunkiePie

...I *know* it's a disease, but in my mind's eye, I just can't help but wonder HOW a person could choose to use over family...

Samantha - I totally hear you on this. My mother was involved in alanon off & on so it was something I always heard & 30+ years later I still can't think of it as a disease. I do understand many aspects about addiction, but this is not one of them because I do think it is a choice to get sober. It's said that the alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before seeking help & I don't know how abusing, alienating and belittling your family and eventually losing their love and respect is not rock bottom.

I do see it as a choice and my father choose alcohol over me and the rest of his family.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by MommyofPunkiePie

See, I can't grasp the whole disease part yet. I *know* it's a disease, but in my mind's eye, I just can't help but wonder HOW a person could choose to use over family.

Samantha

Ok, I understand it's difficult to fathom and accept the disease as it is. What helps me to get it is that no one WOULD WIILINGLY CHOOSE to ruin their life as well as their childrens, AND likewise, NO one CHOOSES the disease of addiction. It's quite simple to me but i was also insightful enough to realize this even when i was a child and my poor father made our lives miserable due to his drinking.

The concept sunk deeper still as i discovered and owned my own addiction.

[Amila]

Hey everyone. I come from a long history of alcoholics on both sides of my family My dad's father was a very angry drunk, and my dad always told himself he would never become an alcoholic. Growing up my dad always had a rum and coke in his hand, although his personality was never different. One day he just stopped. His wife of ten years is an alcoholic, and got progressively worse with the death of her son three years ago. Since then my dad realized that both of them drinking was not helping the problem so he quit, started going to alanon and seeing a counselor. He has recently started drinking again- I smelled it on him at 3 in the afternoon at a wedding ceremony I think he figures "if you can't beat em join em" He was always so judgemental and quick to judge his wife, and also quick to lecture us about "alcoholism" I swear he would just go on and on...makes me so sad.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by bu's mama

Samantha - I totally hear you on this. My mother was involved in alanon off & on so it was something I always heard & 30+ years later I still can't think of it as a disease. I do understand many aspects about addiction, but this is not one of them because I do think it is a choice to get sober. It's said that the alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before seeking help & I don't know how abusing, alienating and belittling your family and eventually losing their love and respect is not rock bottom.

I do see it as a choice and my father choose alcohol over me and the rest of his family.

Hitting rock bottom is a strange yet personal thing. I've experience it first hand and seen it work or not work for many others. What i'm talking about is speaking to a room full of addicts who have been in and out of rehabs, many or them thinking that 'this time' may "It" -They're going to finally get it together. It didnt take long before i also learned the facts that despite them learning all about their addiction and often losing children to children and youth and despite hearing my story of hope as well as others' and having counseling day after day, That the odds were AGAINST them. Most of them will either die of addiction somehow, end up in some type of institution, or What??? Live a life of hell all the time being a prisoner of their disease and hating themselves? It was sad and it was Real. When you go to places like that and meet real people and hear them speak you know that they dont want to be coming back there again-- yet at the same time most of them are lucky if they ever get a second chance at that hope before their lives are ruined beyond repair.

Everyone's bottom is different and some Never have a bottom.

[sparklemom]

My father sobered up twice...as in, went to rehab and made a good go of it. The first time he went he stayed sober for nearly two years or so. It literally felt like he had come back from being gone for so long. He went to AA religiously, and had a sponsor. But he eventually went back to alcohol....then sobered up again after going to the Caron Foundation in PA for a month and a half, then came home and quickly went back to alcohol. He no longer believes there is help for him. He feels hopeless and worthless.
He wishes I would read the book "Under the Influence"...apparently that book captures alcoholism in a way he would like me to understand. I haven't read it.
Is it a disease or a choice?...addiction is in a league of it's own.

[Nitenites]

It's a choice. Every day is a choice. It's a choice to pick up the drink. If it wasn't a choice, then how do (some) alcoholics recover.

Diabetics don't have any control over the insulin their body doesn't make. Celiacs don't have any control over their reaction to gluten. Alcoholics CHOOSE to drink. Okay, I get that staying sober is a very, very hard choice. But it IS A CHOICE.

[MommyofPunkiePie]

That's why I have such a hard time accepting it, because I feel it's a choice, too. Every time I look at my daughter, I know which choice to make, and it's the one for the good rather than the evil.

Where did the origin of calling alcoholism a disease start? Was it an alcoholic who termed it as such, or is it some inherent trait that some people have and others don't?

Samantha

[sparklemom]

i also don't like how calling it a 'disease' seems to render the alcoholic powerless...as tho it's bigger than them, so hopeless in the long run.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by Nitenites

It's a choice. Every day is a choice. It's a choice to pick up the drink. If it wasn't a choice, then how do (some) alcoholics recover.

Diabetics don't have any control over the insulin their body doesn't make. Celiacs don't have any control over their reaction to gluten. Alcoholics CHOOSE to drink. Okay, I get that staying sober is a very, very hard choice. But it IS A CHOICE.

The choice to BECOME an alcoholic is never there. If you have the gene to become addicted and you use then your nabbed. of course, you dont ever realize theres a problem and if you do you're usually in too deep and begin going through daily denial or your situation. What happens to the mind of an addict is'nt pretty or gentle. It's ugly and rough.

The choice only comes when somehow an addict hurts just enough in just the right way for them to put down the drink/drug long enough to get some sense going on in their head along with the pain of it all. That choice to get better - to Begin recovery- can start there but definately must continue to be made minute by minute, day by day.

Addicts dont normally recover. They are always recover-ING.

Yes, they are powerless. It's one of the main- the first step of realizing ones situation and in order to move beyond that they must ACCEPT it. Let me tell you, for an addict to stop fighting after so many years of feeling trapped its' quite a relief.

DIS-EASE= Never, rarely at ease, or comfortable with much of anything, struggling, fighting, hurting, Ill.

All that being said, I dont think anyone can explain easily the complexities and reasons there might be for one alcoholic/addict to stay recovering and another to go back. The human mind and the pshyche is all tied in here and each one of us is so different yet what remains the same is that we have human failings. Some of those 'self-defects' as they call them in the rooms at twelve step meetings for Addicts are deeply entrenched and hurtful to the addict that recovery is a fleeting turn of the dime.

[MommyofPunkiePie]

I just read the most intersting article arguing moral versus immoral with regard to alcoholism. It is geared towards those who work with alcoholics, but I got a lot out of it. It's two pages long, with references, but there is no successive link for the second page (hence the two links here--it took me quite awhile to find Page 2!).

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_d...ype=doc&id=381
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_d...oc&id=382&cn=0

Samantha

[Galatea]

My qualifiers are my mother (sober 5 years now!) and my father (controlled drinking) and my husband (90 days clean).

At first, drinking/using drugs is a choice. But b/c of the way their brains are wired or souls are damaged, it stops being a choice. Even though to us it may look like a choice to not be a loving person, it really isn't. Somewhere (no matter how deep it is buried) they do want to be a good person and parent, but the disease prevents this. Everyone's bottom is different, and they don't have to be arrested or overdose to hit bottom.

Originally Posted by sparklemom

i also don't like how calling it a 'disease' seems to render the alcoholic powerless...as tho it's bigger than them, so hopeless in the long run.

Yes, they are powerless over it. That is the AA first step: We admitted that we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives have become unmanageable. That doesn't mean it is hopeless, though. The person can't beat it himself, but he can with the help of his higher power. Step two: Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. This doesn't mean you have to be christian or even religious. Trust me on this (as I am an atheist).

There is some interesting research out there that there is a certain brain chemical that some people have and some don't. Rats without it will not drink alcohol placed in their cages. When they inject them with this chemical, the rats quickly drink themselves to death. It probably does have a biological basis, but even if this is known, there is a large component of the disease that comes from spiritual and personality defects. Even if you could make people not physically addicted, they would still behave like an addict. Read this article, it's excellent: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06298/732559-114.stm

P.S. I go to Al-Anon and Nar-Anon and they have brought me so much peace.