need help w/ an arguing 4yo

[mommaluv321]

what do I do???I come from a spanking family and my first reaction is to spank, which honestly I have done 6 or 7 times in her life. I'm trying to find other methods of ?disipline? I dont know what to do...every time I tell her that she can't do some thing, it's a meltdown...and I'm finding myself giving her empty threats like " if you do x I will take away the tv privilages for a day" and then dh comes home and she asks him and he'll put a toon on for her(not knowing that I had banned it) which leads to a discussion of why we have no tv on, and another meltdown...I realize that some of this is because of a 6mo sibling, but what am I to do about that? hte worst is when I tell her that she needs to do something ands her only response is "NO!!!" or "I DONT WANT TO". It's like she totally blocks me out and will have nothing to do w/ anything I'm saying. I thought that the older they got, the MORE reasonable they get....I DONT want to spank...I'm trying to be strong, please help!

[Parthenia]

Hey Crystal
Totally OT, but I just realized that Asha and Bea have the same birthday (5 years apart).

Anyway, I had a very rough morning with Bea, and am dealing with the same exact issues. I'll call you tonight.

Hang in there!

Anyone have advice?

[mamaduck]

What if you used more logically connected consequences? My children get very angry if I arbitarily throw my weight around. But they are more responsive to hearing a logical explanation of *why* they can't do something, and what will happen if they do..... For instance, if you don't brush your teeth, then we can't have sweets anymore.... (Just a silly example.)

Also, try not to view the arguements as all bad. Sharpening respectful debate tatics is not an all bad skill to work on.

And for what its worth -- age 4 is a really emotional and volatile age -- and much of the drama you are experiencing will natuarlly dissapate eventually. I hope!

[annab]

First of all, good for you for trying to break your family's cycle of violent discipline. Have you read the previous thread on Keeping Your Own Anger in Check?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=143142

It is worth every word that the other mamas have submitted. I cannot tell you how much I learned from it. Sure, it took me three days to get through all of it, but it was so enlightening.

As for no TV, unless the infraction is TV-related, it is not a consequence with which she can really connect. As mamaduck said, it needs to be a natural/logical consequence. You did not give any examples of what she is doing. That might help us give you clearer suggestions. I can give you an example of what happens at our house. DS is jumping on the furniture. He gets a reminder: "Furniture is for bottoms, the floor is for feet. You may jump on the floor." If he continues, he gets a direct command in the positive: "Bum on the couch" instead of "no jumping" with a consequence "or you will have to get down". Sometimes I throw in a distraction or a suggestion of a non-jumping activity. He is only two, so I don't want to get too wordy. If the jumping continues, then I pick him up and put him on the floor. And then we deal with ensuing fit that is sure to follow. Most of the time though, we just get to the command stage, and he finds something else to do.

Remember to take a deep breath before you address her, and you will find it much easier not to spank. That few seconds can help keep you out of intense reaction mode.

[maya44]

I think the problem here is that you feel that you "must" do something about her saying "no". You really don't.

For example:

You: Get in the car

DD: NO, I don't want to

You: You need to get in the car now. If you can't get in in the next minute I will put you in

DD: NO, No, NO

You: Here we go (gently picking her up and putting her in the car)

You may get tantrums etc, you can respond by being sympathetic and understanding, but once she understands that her "no's" are not going to change much, she prob will tanturm less.

This is just one example. Sometimes you don't even have to get her to do what you ask, you only need to allow your request to remain

You: DD pick up your toys

Dd: NO!!!!!

You: yes you need to. I will be back here in a few minutes and I expect you to pick them up

DD: NO I am not going to

You: Exit

When you return, if she has put them away: "thank you dd (NOT: "Why do you have to make such a fuss)

If not: I asked you to put away your toys and you did not. I am not happy. Next time I expect you to do it when I ask ( and exit)

[mommaluv321]

I think that the biggest problem I am having is finding natural consequences for everything. It just seems like I give her timeouts and they don't work anymore. I try sitting w/ her while she takes a timeout, telling her to take a big breath or 2 or 3 to try to help calm her down cause she gets extremely emotional. I've been re-examining things though and I think she may not be getting enough 1-1 time as I always have her sister.hhhmmmmm.....so what do I do now? It's not like we can "take her back to da hopsickle" (a friend's child coined that phrase for us )

[Mothernature]

Originally Posted by mommaluv321

so what do I do now? It's not like we can "take her back to da hopsickle" (a friend's child coined that phrase for us )

OT My dd (just turned 4) recently told me that we needed to give her db (9.5 mos) to Dh's brother and wife so we could try for a sister.

There is an adjustment period and it gets harder as the baby gets more mobile, but nap times are good for mono a mono and you can always get her started on a project and check back periodically. I put dd up to the table with playdough and let her have at it. Then when ds is playing nicely with something I come back and make something with the playdough and we compare projects. Something else that is helping I think is that we have dd enrolled in a gymnastics class 1 hr/week. She gets to play with kids her own age and the teacher gives them good attention. I know it's hard to give up your precious nap time, but chances are with two you already have. Use some of that for your big girl.

[punkymonkeymom]

I have a 4 yr old and a 3 mo old. I completely know what you mean about the 4 yr old needing more time with you. I try to make it a point to take time when the baby is asleep to spend with older dd. Even if that means I dont get the house clean right then. DH has been trying to make an effort to do special things with dd#1, just the 2 of them. this has really helped her be closer to her father also. I am lucky my dd is very vocal and lets us know when she needs more time. For example she will say you are looking at baby sister and not me. or mommy hold your big baby too. As far as the talking back and arguing thing, I think a lot of it is just the age. My dd does it quite a bit too. We try to make the punishment fit the crime here also. like if she says no I am not putting away my toys. I tell her either you pick them up or I will put them in the garage if I have to pick them up. She knows if her toys go in the garage it will be a while before she gets them back. I then leave the room and most of the time they are picked up when I get back. If they arent I follow through. I pick the toys up and they are put away. If she argues with me over petty things, I try not to argue back. Most of the time I will tell her once that we will do what I said and if she argues again I will simply go on like I didnt even hear her. Dont know if any of this helps. I think whatever you do consistency is the key thing.