Setting up a delayed/Selective Vax Schedule

[Belleweather]

After doing a lot of reading and reasearch, DH and I have decided to Vax our kids on a selective and delayed schedule, but I'm having a hard time finding information on deciding when it's best to give various vaccines. I'm pretty set on waiting on everything until we're no longer BF, and definately want to do one vax at a time, but beyond that I'd love to hear advice and suggestions about scheduling.

We're interested in vaccinating against Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, diptheria, and are undecided about Hepititis. We'd add chicken pox only if they didn't get a natural infection by adolescence.

[KellyB]

I'm also researching delayed/selective schedueling.
I'm curious as to why Polio is on your list, as from all that I've read, the only cases of Polio since 1979 came from the vaccine.

As for general advice, there's some (I can't remember the medical term...I really need to memorize it!) coating that nuerons in the brain develop around age 3 that prevents toxins from causing brain damage...
So I'm thinking maybe 4 years would perhaps be an acceptable age to start, especially since I've never heard (so far) of a child developing regressive autism that old...
Hepatitis might be a good thing to do around adolesence along with CP. The later the better, right? And I'm not thinking my son will be a sexually active drug user at 6, yk?
I'm kind of conflicted about pertussus...it's only really bad when they're very small, but I don't want to give ds any shots while he's that little.

[Gitti]

Polio - the only cases of Polio there are in the Western Hemisphere is from vaccines. We have no other source of polio. And in Africa and India they get their polio from the Oral Polio vaccine. And they more than likely have a childhood paralysis that looks like polio but is caused by pollution, pesticides, starvation...

Measles - is not a disease you have to fear. I had three kids all at once with measles. They get a little grumpy and feverish, rashy and whiny for a while but it is nothing to worry about.

Mumps - again, most kids pass it off without any problems. My kids had mumps and only one out of three had a severe case but we never needed the doctor.

Rubella - girls who don't have rubella naturally can then in the child bearing years run into problems. And if they are vaccinated it will have worn off by them. To revax at that age is dangerous since it is a childhood disease.

diphtheria - is most unlikely that your child will get it. And if he does, he can take antibiotic if it get severe.

Hepatitis B - is a disease that mainly affect prostitutes and drug abusers. I don't think you have to worry about that till the child is about 15. Teach your child to be responsible and never use drugs.

Chicken pox - is in the air. Most kids get immunity without ever showing symptoms. The vaccine in a mature person, after age 14, is not a good idea.

Here is a link to check out

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by kellyb

As for general advice, there's some coating that nuerons in the brain develop around age 3 that prevents toxins from causing brain damage...

You are talking about myelination. That starts at birth and continues for quite a few years very vigerously and then slows down. If that process is interrupted it can cause all sort of problems such as ADD, delayed speech, hyperactivity, autism...

So I'm thinking maybe 4 years would perhaps be an acceptable age to start, especially since I've never heard (so far) of a child developing regressive autism that old...

The oldest child that was perfectly normal and suddenly responded to a vaccine by becoming autistic was 12.

Hepatitis might be a good thing to do around adolescence along with CP. The later the better, right? And I'm not thinking my son will be a sexually active drug user at 6, yk?

Are you sure your child can not be convinced to use condoms or be responsible in other ways when he is a teen? It also prevents teen pregnancy which the Hep B will not.
As for CP many kids get immuinty without ever having the disease. It happened to my SIL when he was tested to get into med school.

I'm kind of conflicted about pertussis...it's only really bad when they're very small, but I don't want to give ds any shots while he's that little.

Pertussis is linked to SIDS. The pertussis vaccine has been taken totally off the schedule in a lot of European countries. It is a very reactive vaccine. Whooping cough is most dangerous up to the age of 6 months. And especially in children who are not bf.

[Rainbow Brite]

We faced this too and I spent a very stressful two months researching everything I could on vaxxes. We are not vaxxing, but I still get nervous. However, the more I read, the more confident I am in not vaxxing. The only one I worry about is pertussis- the disease and the vax. But, if we don't vax, it's unlikely we'll come into contact with it, but if we do, we've just upped our chances quite a bit by Satine getting sick or worse. I am not immune to rubella even though I was vaxxed as a child. My dr. tried to get me to get the shot at Satine's 2 month visist. I declined (just in the middle of researching) and then read in the insert about how the measles can be passed on via breastmilk. I mentioned this to my dr at a follow-up visit (info on vaxxes) and she just mumbled something about how I have to get it soon. I won't be getting it.
Gitti, do you have any sites on the European countries alternative schedule and taking off pertussis? My chiro had said that Japan and France (I think) don't start vaxxing till age 2, but I couldn't find any info online.
Coming here makes me more secure in our decision as I do tend to worry every now and then!

[KellyB]

Once again, thanks for the info, Gitti..definitely food for thought.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Hbbg

do you have any sites on the European countries alternative schedule and taking off pertussis? My chiro had said that Japan and France (I think) don't start vaxxing till age 2, but I couldn't find any info online.

Don't forget the same forces are in place in Europe and the rest of the world as here in the US.

As for Japan, the government used to discourage parents from vaccinating their children until age two.
But that was reversed when the DPT was changed to the DTaP.


All European countries and Japan have a much more lenient vaccine schedule. They each have recommendations but most do not start till somewhat later and avoid the need for boosters.

Also, vaccines are not as forcefully promoted as here in the US. Schools and jobs don't mandate it. So when a child enters Kindergarten, and he is not vaccinated, the parents simply state it. There is nothing they have to sign, they face no threats, at least that is the way it is in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

The odd thing is that most European countries have no mandatory vaccines and those that do only have one or two or three and they are each a different vaccine. That shows how political it really is, since each vaccine is the one that is that countries nationality or has the biggest business in that country.
That was proven in Italy, where the politician who mandated a new vaccine was charged with corruption and ties to the pharma. He was jailed but the vaccine was still mandated.

Anyway, a group of Swiss doctors finally came out with an alternate schedule. I think it is more to appease the parents because so many refused to vaccinate at all.

I will look for it and post it. But I must say, I think the most effective vaccine is the one not given.

[Hut's Mom]

I just finished reading "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Vaccines" (I may have a word or two off in the title...it may be "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Vaccinations") by Stephanie Cave, M.D. She is a pediatrician who became very alarmed by the # of children she saw with autism, autoimmune disorders, illness, etc., linked to vaccines. Her book is extremely helpful, & she offers some guidance on a modified schedules. It's a very inexpensive book in paperback.

Hope this helps!

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Hut's Mom

I just finished reading "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Vaccines"

Hello, and welcome to the board. That is a good book to start out with. It was my very first book on the subject.

May I recommend another? It's by Z. Miller Vaccines - Are they really Safe and Effective?

How old is your child/ren?

[Belleweather]

My reasons for wanting to vax future DC are thus: We travel. A lot. To extremely underdeveloped parts of the globe. In the future, we will be travelling more and likely living in underdeveloped areas because of our work; DH is studying medicine focusing on epidemiology and public health in the third world and I'm a law student emphasising legal development in central asia. So while certian diseases might be eradicated in the US, they are still very much present where we're going -- and good medical care often isn't. So as much as I appreciate the information that certian diseases are eradicated in the US or 'aren't a big deal', I feel like I need to make my judgements based on a different 'worst case scenario' involving a bad case of a disease in a mud hut somewhere in Tuva or Mongolia.

Hut's Mom: Thanks, I'll check that book out.

Hbbg: Pertussis worries me too. I live in South Western Wisconsin, and we were dead in the middle of a pertussis outbreak earlier this year. No deaths, thank god, but quite a few hospitalizations, some of which were vaxed kids and some who weren't. I work in a legal clinic that is a part of the UW hospitals, so I actually saw some of those kids and they were in bad shape!

Gitti: As far as Hepetits B goes, there's a much higher risk in Eastern Europe and Africa that there is here. And while I'm pretty sure that any children that I have (we're TTC, so this is all 'planning ahead' for me) won't be having sex with drug-addicts while they're still young, given the prevalence of risk, I'm still pro-vax on this one. I know that the spectre of AIDS and threats from my parents weren't enough to scare me away from risky sexual and pharmeceutical behavior and I wouldn't be okay with assuming they'd be enough for my kids. But hey, everyone has to make their own decisions -- you read everything you can, and make what you think is the best choice.

KellyB: What you said about Meylination is really interesting, I'll have to look that up... Four sounds a bit late for me, since I'm kind of worried about lacking the antibodies from BF and being without vaccinations, but at this point, who knows... maybe I'll EBF that long!

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

So while certian diseases might be eradicated in the US, they are still very much present where we're going

But does that put your child in any greater danger?

You are assuming that vaccines work, but what if they don't?

What if they never did and only caused the disease? But the disease does not prevail because of better living standards.

Instead we see vaccine damage all around us, we just don't acknowledge it.

What if the natural child can easily defend himself against childhood diseases because it is a part of our genetic make up to attack those viruses and germs that have been with us for thousands of years?
And what if the child can not defend himself against things we inject?

Formaldehyde - an embalming fluid and known carcinogen, antifreeze, antibiotics (which should NEVER be injected), mercury which interrupts myelination, or foreign proteins which cause allergies - proven by science?

So as much as I appreciate the information that certian diseases are eradicated in the US or 'aren't a big deal',

Your child is in the same body no matter where you travel. It depends on his health, not on the children around him.

You are intelligent. You must know that germs don't cause diseases?
There are germs everywhere; we have a symbiotic relationship with germs. We leave them alone and they leave us alone. They are a part of us.
Only a weakened body can get ill. Concentrate on health. Don't compromise his strong immune system.

STudy each and every vaccine and the disease it is supposed to prevent before injecting anything. Feel free to ask for help. We will show you evidence that vaccines do not work. As a matter of fact, they serve a much different purpose.

"Read Pasteur Exposed: The false Foundation of Modern Medicine"

"The Curse of Louise Pasteur - Why medicine is Not Healing a Diseased World"

'worst case scenario' involving a bad case of a disease in a mud hut somewhere in Tuva or Mongolia.

I disagree. Worst case scenario would be to first compromise the immune system and then living in around disease. Because then the child is not healthy nor up to par. It is unfair to expect him to stay healthy once his immune system is compromised.

The mud hut will not be a worry if the child is well fed, has clean water, love, plenty of fresh air, sleep, warmth, and again unconditional love.
But, if he doesn't have a strong immune system, one that has to concentrate on getting rid of whatever was injected and therefore is not strong enough to ward off what's around him, then living in a primitive situation might prove troublesome.

As far as Hepetits B goes, there's a much higher risk in Eastern Europe and Africa that there is here.

I agree that there is more Hep B but how exactly does that affect your child in his formative years?

I'm still pro-vax on this one.

Then at least wait till he is 14 or so since according to the insert papers, the vaccine wears off in 5 years.

[Gitti]

Who is looking after our Kids?

[Belleweather]

Gitti, while I very much appreciate your efforts to educate me, I have done my reading and shared the information with DH and I feel like we've made the best decision for our family given the situations that we're likely to be in. I'm sorry that you don't agree and I very much respect your right to your opinion and to do what is right for your family.

But what I'm looking for here is not a tretise on why not to vaccinate, but information on making an informed decision on delayed and selective vaccination. None of the information that you're providing me addresses this issue, so I'm kind of confused as to why you're providing it.

[KellyB]

Hey...here's some good info on mylin sheaths, what they do, and what interferes with their development.

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~jm...tml#background

I'm pretty convinced this is a big part of vax damage.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

Gitti, ...None of the information that you're providing me addresses this issue, so I'm kind of confused as to why you're providing it.

Perhaps I thought there was still room to learn?


Science is a wonderful thing. One gets such wholesale return of conjecture for such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain

Illness or disease is only Natures warning that filth has accumulated in some portion or other of the body and it would be surely part of wisdom to allow Nature to remove the filth instead of covering it up with the help of medicine. Therefore, those who take medicine, only render the
task of Nature more difficult.
Mohandas Gandhi

I am, and have been for years, a firm confirmed anti-vaccinationist.....I have not the least doubt in my mind that vaccination is a filthy process that is harmful in the end.
also Gandhi

[alex-lynne]

Wanted to check in here..
Hi Belle,
I agree that to wait as long as possible for your list of vax you are considering is best..I say that because of this..
Chicken pox (certainly for me) and measles and mumps (in my mom's generation) we considered a nuisance..and I know complications resulted for some..but the risks of those vax may outweigh the risks for you until they have reached an older age and have not contracted them naturally and the risks of the disease may be higher.
I would think that too of hep b and rubella which is considered most dangerous to women of childbearing age. And if vax'd early..immunity may be worn off.
Diptheria..I do not know enough about other areas and travel to say..but isn't it always with at least tetanus..not available separately?
Polio..same as above..I do not know enough about travel.
a-l

[Electra375]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html

talks about delayed vaxing

[musicmaj]

Originally Posted by Hut's Mom

I just finished reading "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Vaccines" (I may have a word or two off in the title...it may be "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Vaccinations") by Stephanie Cave, M.D. She is a pediatrician who became very alarmed by the # of children she saw with autism, autoimmune disorders, illness, etc., linked to vaccines. Her book is extremely helpful, & she offers some guidance on a modified schedules. It's a very inexpensive book in paperback.

Hope this helps!

I just bought this book in Walmart for $3.50. I was very surprised to see it there. I just started all the vaccine research, but have already decided to not vax my two kids anymore, and not vax any future kids.

[greencurry]

This is the CDC's basic "schedule" for delayed vaccinations:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/recs/child-schedule.htm#catchup
I haven't seen any info about the optimal times for the child's health, but that site show that many vaccines need fewer doses when started later.
DTaP: one less if fourth is given after fourth birthday
IPV/OPV: one less if third is given after fourth birthday (must be all the same - I or O)

[Electra375]

Think about why that is, why there are less required doses if given later. My one known example off the top of my head is HIB. It's schedule is 2, 4, 6, and the 4th between 12 - 15 months (as of 2002). But if you skip ages 2, 4, 6 only the one dose between 12 - 15 mo is needed for the same immunity.

Why is this I ask myself and I answer b/c the immature immune system can't acquire immunity from 1 dose of vaccine they way a more mature immune system can.

My ds1 has the 1 dose of HIB for preschool that was given when he was 21mo old. We now don't vax at all, but for what it is worth the HIB vax is not intended to be used in children over 5 -- therefore any school that says it's required for entry to kindergarten can be challenged. I acquired that information in or around 1999 or 2000 from the CDC or WHO, those were the only two vax sites I knew of at the time. I have since seen HIB removed from the required list for our state.