I really can't stand him not listening to me anymore

[oceanbaby]

Ds1 just totally ignores anything I say if it's not what he wants to hear. In the grocery store, if I ask him to stay in the aisle I'm in while he's playing with his train, he just ignores me and walks out of sight. I bring him back, tell him again, briefly explain why, and then he walks out of sight while looking at me, with that look, like "See, I'm doing what you told me not to do."

We make cookies (it's a rainy day and I can't think of what else to do with the two kids). He eats like 5 cookies. I tell him no more cookies. He aks for more. I say no more, but I will be happy to fix him some beans and rice or a quesadilla. He ignores me and pulls a chair up trying to get the cookies. I tell him again that he's had too many. I go to put ds2 down for a nap, and when I come out, ds1 is eating cookies. I'm actually afraid to put them where he can't get them because he'll hurt himself trying to get them.

I ask him to quit slamming the gate against the wall (it chips the plaster every time he does it). He looks at me, and then does it again.

I could go on and on with the examples. It's all day long. If he doesn't want to hear it, he just totally ignores me and does what he wants. He doesn't listen until I start yelling and issuing threats, which I hate doing.

I give positive reinforcement when he does listen. I talk about the scenario ahead of time ("We're going into the store and I need you to stay beside me"), etc. And then when I get mad at him, he starts crying, asking for a hug, which I give to him, but is hard for me because I'm still angry. And I feel like he is being manipulative - pissing me off on purpose and then wanting to hug.

How do I solve this? I can't just never bring him into a store, or let him eat all the cookies he wants.

[Ruthla]

Here's how I would handle some of these situations:

In the store, I would have taken away the toy train if he couldn't stay near my while walking with it. If that still didn't work, I would have put him in the shopping cart. (Does your store have the carts with 2 seats?) One option is baby in sling, toddler in shopping cart. Another option is baby in shopping cart seat, toddler in the big part of the basket and you don't buy as many groceries at once. You could also try putting ds on a "leash" while you shop so that he's physically unable to wander too far out of your sight.

As for the cookies, I'd suggest baking something healthier. We don't bake very often, so I'm usually more lenient about "having cookies for lunch" when we do make them. Although, I have put them out of reach on plenty of occasions (esp if we need to save the rest of the cookies for a specific occasion.) Maybe get a safe to put cookies in so he knows where they are but can't open it? lol

I've never tried it myself, but I've heard that you can make cracker dough and roll it out and have just as much fun as with cookie dough. You could also have done a crafts activity that didn't involve food (coloring, painting, paper bag or sock puppets) and leave healthy snacks for him within his reach (cheese, cut up fruits and veggies, etc.)

Slamming the gate into the wall- I would physically pick him up and move him to another spot far away from the gate.

Age 3.5 IS old enough to be manipulative. It really sounds to me like he's testing the limits. I think it's OK to say "No, I don't want to hug you right now, I'm still angry."

You mentioned yelling and issuing threats- do you follow through with your threats? What would happen if you issued threats (aka warned him of the consequences) in a calm voice before you lose control and start yelling? You may need to follow through a few times before he understands that you're serious when you use the quiet voice.

[sunnmama]

I agree with Ruth about the grocery store. If you can not/will not stay where you are safe, then you must be in the cart. That is non-negotiable here. I will try to keep her occupied enough so that this is not an issue, however. For instance, she can help me find the things we are looking for, or we might sing silly songs together....

And the cookie thing....that is one I just try to avoid. Ruth's idea of baking a healthier treat is great--something you will be happy to let him gorge on! Other than that, distraction can sometimes help. And then, out of sight, out of mind--put those cookies in an unmarked tin at the back of the cabinet

But I completely know what you mean about the little misbehaviors that seem really intentional, and accompanied by "that look". I find that dd does this when something is bothering her: she is lonely or overstimulated or hungry or tired. Are you seeing any of these commonalities? Asking for a hug might be a true need for reassurance, especially if his misbehavior was initiated by another need.

[famousmockngbrd]

You posted on my thread about DS ignoring me, about a week ago. I think our DSs would get along fabulously well, lol. My DS is only 2 so he has not yet mastered "the look", he just pretends he can't hear me. It is maddening, isn't it?

[maya44]

I agree with much of the above. Though I strongly feel that as parents there is never a need to say "I am not going to hug you because I am angry with you"

As parents we owe our kids love at all times, even when they act like or say they don't love us. My message to my kids is "I love you very much and NOTHING you do can ever change that"

In fact this is the reason I hate analogies about treating your child as you would a friend or a spouse. Those relationships may have a breaking point, if the other party acts badly ennough. Those with our children never ever should no matter how terrible they act.

[oceanbaby]

My message to my kids is "I love you very much and NOTHING you do can ever change that"

Ds2 is just starting to cry for me (dh has him right now), so I can't reply in full yet, but wanted to say that I do say this to ds each and every time.

[Alegria]

I have found that with children that small it helps to tell them what you want them to do rather than what not to do. almost try to iliminate the no's
for example, at 2:00 clock you can have another cookie, come help me put these in a very special bag we can save them in a secret hiding space. I tell dd "your kidneys have to work very hard to clean sugary things out of your body" turn your redirections into a game. my dd is not letting me finish, i'll have to go practic what i preach

[fiddledebi]

I love this thread because it's nice to know I'm not the only one who is just UNDONE by this. DD, 2.5yo, is precocious and highly verbal, so when she doesn't answer me, I know it's not because she can't -- it's because she WON'T. Example: I see DD climbing into our bed using the handles of our under-bed drawers as footholds. I say "DD, don't use the handles to climb onto the bed. Please go get your stool." Then I hear the CRACK of the handle breaking off, and DD upset because she's now fallen. DH and I are upset that she broke the handle off, we get out tools and fix it and get DD's stool so she can climb up by herself, explaining that the breaking handle is EXACTLY why we want her to use the stool. Then we say, "That was scary, wasn't it, when the handle came off and you fell? And it made Mommy and Daddy sad when their bed broke. What are you going to do next time you need to climb into the bed?" And DD, whimpering in my arms, will say, "I'm going to use my stool."

Then, the next day, or maybe a few days later, she does it again. And we have the conversation again. Ad nauseum.

She also will get intently focused on something and not answer when we ask an unrelated question, like "What do you want for breakfast?" or "DD, would you like to go for a walk with us?" In that situation, we just gently but firmly remove the object of her attention for a moment until she answers. Once she provides the answer, we put it back (crayons and paper, the tv show she's watching, etc.).

Sometimes if she is absolutely ignoring us, we will say something like, "Listen, DD, if you are not going to talk to us, we're not going to talk to you either. We're going to another room. Please come get us when you're ready to answer." This almost always results in an answer. She HAS heard the question; she just doesn't feel like answering.

I think the advice I've gotten that works the best is to make the environment as "no-free" as possible. I'd have taken the cookies, put them away where he really could not have gotten them (even if that meant in my purse, which I'd take to the bedroom to get the other child down for a nap) but immediately offer an alternative activity. "You can't have any more cookies now because they'll hurt your tummy. I'm sorry because I know you want them. I'm going to go put Shmoo down for a nap. Would you like to wash the cookie cutters in the sink while I do that? When I get downstairs, we can play XYZ together."

I'll be watching this thread, though!

[mnnice]

I don't have tons of advice, but I can sure commiserate. DS and I went out three times yesterday and his behavior was really bad during the first one. I actually abandoned my cart and left a discount store without any of the things I was going to pick up. I am really scared of what outings will be like when the new baby comes.

My other two outings went fine. I think this was for two reasons. One, I shocked him by walking out. Two, I talked about what was going to happen and in what order i.e. we are going to the library. G is finding 5 books. Mommy is finding books for her. We are checking out books. Then we may play at the computer.

[amethystrse]

Orion's been acting like this on and off for 2 years now. It's gotten a lot better though. I've found some things work and some don't.

Usually he has to stay in the cart though sometimes I let him walk with me. It used to result in my running after him all over the store before. What I started doing, though, was include him in the shopping. Usually when I didn't put him in a cart it was because we were only getting a handful of items and I hate using a cart when I don't need it. So, I would ask him to carry something for me, like the bread. Then, while we went looking for the other items I wanted to buy I would comment about how much he was helping me and what a big boy he was. He loved it! Though, as soon as we got to the checkout line I had to hold him. Once he wasn't helping me anymore he would run off again. lol

When we're getting a lot of stuff he likes to take things off the shelves. So, I found a way for him to help me with that too. I tell him what I need and ask him to grab one for me. Then he can hold it or put it in the cart. Though I have exceptions such as anything in a glass jar, eggs, etc. Those only Mommy or Daddy can get. Again I tell him he's being a really big help and how much I love his helping me. Sometimes, I'll even ask him to help me choose between two items to buy, so he feels even more like he's helping and like he's a part of shopping...not just along for the ride.

When he ignores me I usually have to do what fiddledebi mentioned. Taking away for a moment what he's playing with or turning off the TV (he doesn't watch much but when he does nothing else exists). He hasn't given me "That look" in a long while. But, when he did oh boy did it piss me off. lol I would have to take a few deep breaths to keep from yelling. Then, I would physically remove him from what he was doing. He doesn't do that anymore. His new thing is doing something he shouldn't and then trying to hide it. Like once he got into some ding dongs and tried to hide the wrappers under his shirt. We don't buy snacks like that often (maybe once every 3 months or less). So perhaps that's why he felt the need to hog them. I had them in the highest cabinet on the very top in the back too. I still have no idea how he got them. What I did though was the next few days, dh and I would have one after dinner and ds wasn't allowed. I told him that when he ate the whole bunch he did the other day he ate his share for these few days. Since he ate them all at once he couldn't get any more until next time. Now, whenever we buy a snack like that I gently remind him of that time. He hasn't tried to hog the snacks since.


There's something else I found recently that works really well for ds. We paint or do some sort of craft almost every day. I found that letting him sit for an hour playing with dough or painting or something simple like that makes him calmer and more apt to listen to me the rest of the day. I don't know what it is or why. I just know it works. Also, I try to spend a lot of one on one time with him. When the baby comes I'm going to try and make sure to continue this one on one time (probably when the baby naps). We both love it and it's actually turned into our preschool time (I homeschool). It's become a real bonding experience for us.

Also, taking him to the park a lot allows him to get out the need to play with other kids, yell like nuts, and be a total monkey which he can't get at home. I've noticed that on weeks when we go to the park more he's better "behaved" than on weeks we're mostly home.

I consider the park, crafts/art, and our homeschooling to be a sort of "preventive" measure. Mostly because that's the outcome. lol The more we do it the less he "acts out".

[stirringleaf]

oy i could have written your thread. and undone is a perfect word for it, i am so frazzled! mind if i hijack with my own little issues in response to some of the suggestions??? my ds is going to be 3 in feb. he does "the look" ...everything you described and more.

about putting them in the cart if they dont listen:
my ds is so strong, and knows how to writhe and thrash and throw a huge fit if i try to get him in the cart. one time i had to just leave the store. he didnt care, and PLUS he does the same thing getting into the carseat. i end up sweating, exhausted. 2 days ago i started crying in the middle of target after a long drawn out ordeal involving me "making a quick stop" to get him some pull-ups cuz he pooped his diaper and we were out at Barnes and Noble so he could play and read while i studied and i had no diapers w/me...total target trip 1/2 hour including 20 minute power struggle in the nasty bathroom, changing the diaper. PLUS sat in the car for another 20 minutes w/me crying cuz i couldt physically get him in his seat nor coerce him verbally.on the way to the car he wanted to walk "by myself" so badly that he would try to lay in the parkinglot if i held his hand and he thrashed around making it impossible to carry him. study time: zilch.

about suggesting what you want them to do instead of saying "dont"
i think this is a great habit i need to get more into. although i get the same response from him either way. and it looks like the OP does it too, with little reaction from her kid either.

i DO resort to taking things away, like tonight he started pretending he was a scary monster and got too rough with me and after asking him to be gentle 3 times i took away his boots ( he was stepping on me) and the cookie i had given him for a special treat. ( he is really attached to his boots, wears them in the house all day) but is this mean? i feel like a bully but its the ONLY thing that gets his attention. i find myself yanking stuff out of his hands alot , and i dont like that but i feel literally TAPPED for things to do instead. i try everything GD i can think of.

however, i totally forgot about the involvingthem in th shopping thing. so i am going to try that again, that is fun for him. but if anyone could respond with these probs in mind, that would be awesome as the "ideal" solutions we all read about are not really working and i dont want to be a punitive mom all the time. thanks much, sorry for robbing your thread!

ps sorry to be so windy of a poster but i wanted to add that i do positivly reinforce "good" behavior, like i tell him "thank you for saying that so politly" or "thats right, real gentle" or "ohhh i love kisses they are so nice"

[amethystrse]

I so sympathise. Orion does some of those same things too. Plus, I'm pregnant and he's 50 lbs (tall, thin, and muscular). So, picking him up isn't an option anymore.

When Orion "acts out" I try to do several things at once. Most of them are reminders. I have to remind myself that he's only been in this life for 3 years. So, he's going to react to things in a way I have trouble understanding. What could make him react this way? How can I show him that what he is doing isn't what he should do without being judgemental? How can I explain to him what' wrong?

Usually it's not that they're trying to be "bad" or "misbehaving" but rather that they're trying to convey some sort of message that we're not getting. And sometimes the message is loud and clear. A desire to walk in the parkinglot by themselves, for instance, could be simply that they want to be a little independent or maybe just want to walk like adults do...without having to hold someone's hand. When this happens I usually say something like, "Orion, I know you want to walk by yourself. But, it's safer if you hold Mommy's hand. Yes, you're a really big boy, but you're still small enough that cars can't see you as easily as they can see Mommy." I usually don't like pointing out that something we do every day can be dangerous. But, I always try to give him a reason for why we do things. If that reason is because to do it another way is dangerous than that's the reason I'll give. Sometimes I have to add that if a car hits him it'll be a bad owwie and he'll have to go to the hospital. But, usually I don't have to go that far. Just knowing that I want him to be safe and THATS why I ask him to hold my hand is usually (but not always) enough.

I try to refrain from asking him things I know will upset him. Such as, "Why are you doing this?" or something that sounds harsh and judgemental. It not only hurts his feelings but can also confuse him, as he may not fully yet realize why we're so upset. The end result is a very upset child who won't listen to anything and a mother who is frustrated and about to cry herself. I've done it. I've felt it. I try to avoid it.

The biggest thing I've found that works is validating his feelings. Letting him know that 'Yes, Mommy understands why you want it and Mommy really is listening to you' really seems to help keep a situation from getting to the point where I want to scream. After he knows that I'm listening to him and that I'm not going to judge him or yell at him or something then he's more willing to talk and to listen. Then, when I show him that there are reasons for things and that I want to do what's best for him because I love him, then he's more willing to do what I ask. It's no longer just "Mommy wants to stop me from doing X and having fun" Instead it's, "Mommy says that doing X isn't safe and Mommy doesn't want me to get hurt" or whatever the reason is.

Does it work all the time? Well, no. Sometimes I just don't know how to handle a situation and can't seem to find a positive and gentle way to deal with it. But, I'm getting better at it and my son and I communicate a lot more than we used to.

I wish I could tell you how to handle specific situations. But, to be honest I can't. Partially because I'm still learning and partially because you know your son better than I do. Just try to remember to validate his feelings and give him reasons for why you say things. That seems to work best with us. Hopefully it'll work best with you too. And hopefully someone more experienced here can tell you more. lol

[heartmama]

maya wrote:

Though I strongly feel that as parents there is never a need to say "I am not going to hug you because I am angry with you"

I am going to somewhat disagree with that.

A child feeling safe, loved, and nurtured by a parent is so vital. Having that security does not happen because the parent always appears kind, loving and happy. **It happens because the parent is never cruel, vengeful, or hateful**

It is not cruel or hateful to show a child old enough to understand, that they have crossed a line with their behavior, that they have hurt you, and that *they* are expected to set things right.

If you kicked your child would you expect them to hug you? Of course not. And once a child is old enough, they SHOULD be allowed to see that hitting a person (or calling them a name, or even ignoring them) really hurts them, and that people have a right to feel upset and a right to an apology. And that mom is a person too! You cannot very well kick her and then turn around and expect a hug. You can't ignore her, treat her like she is stupid, and then expect her to pretend it is okay.

Being hit, kicked, or verbally abused crosses a line between another person's right to self expression, and their responsibility to keeping up their end of a relationship with me. That goes for my parents, friends, dh, and my child.

I see mothers who confuse love with always acting nurturing and adoring. Sometimes it is the child's turn to act forgiving and nurturing. Sometimes you have to feel secure enough to say "I know I am a gentle parent, I know my child feels loved, and it is okay to sit back and see what they have learned from that example".

At 2 I always explained, always vocalized and identified emotions when ds was deliberately hurtful. As he got older, and we had those moments of him choosing to be hurtful to get what he wanted, I found the best thing I could do was embrace my own sense of hurt, and turn my nurturing and concern on *me* when he acted cruel. Naturally the first thing he wanted me to do was stop that, and reassure him, focus on him, focus on his feelings! In fact I clearly remember a few instances around the age of 3 or 4, even 5, where he might scream right in my face and then in the next breath try to crawl in my lap exclaiming "I love you mom!! I LOVE YOU!".

He was learning what it meant to be really hurtful, and he could not possibly know how it made me feel if I did not set boundaries for myself, so that he could identify them.

The best thing I could do was say "I know you love me, and the way you just acted really hurt me. I am upset and am going to the kitchen. If you want to get along with me, you need to apologize. It is NEVER okay to kick me".

And I did not say it with a smile. I said it with a quiet firmness and conviction, of total seriousness.

He usually ran right after me apologizing. But in the beginning he sometimes threw a tantrum, or cried, or tried to distract me so he wouldn't have to apologize. Eventually he saw that when he finally did apologize, I met him where he was at. I would give him a hug and thank him for coming to me and apologizing. I would tell him that really made me feel better, that he cared enough to do that (and yes, his concern was partly for himself, but it always is for everyone, isn't it? We can't stand the thought of losing the trust of someone we love, and it compells us to apologize).

I'd say by the time he was 6 he had truly learned what the real consequence was to being deliberately hurtful. It hurts people! It makes them sad! They don't want to be around you! You wind up having to apologize, because if you don't, they don't think you are a mean little stinker who doesn't care about them. And of course, if they kicked you, you would think they were mean Big stinkers who didn't care about you. Oh I get it, I see, it is really up to *me* to keep things going along well, everyone else won't just sit by and let me scream and kick and then pretend it was fine when it wasn't. They aren't going to hit or kick me back, but they sure aren't going to be happy with me, and I DO want them to be happy with me, so I'd better remember to treat them the way I want to be treated!

Now THAT is a complicated lesson! It took us years for ds to learn, but the most vital part of it, the part that really got his attention and elicited his concern and cooperation, was my ability focus concern on MY feelings when he deliberately hurt them. It set an example, and he learned to follow it.

I honestly can't imagine how you would raise a child without punishment if you never expected them to develop a degree of emotional equality early on, and to be responsible for their own hurtful actions.

And of course, if I was hurtful, I apologized to him.

More than anything else, I credit his ability to be responsible for making ammends and sincerely apologizing with our ability to live without punishments or spanking or yelling. There is no need for it if you can really talk to your child, and can count on them to care how their actions are affecting everyone around them.

[maya44]

Sorry Heartsmama, we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I believe that children have an absolute right to unconditional love from us their parents.

I have no problem telling my kids that I am not happy with their behavior, or that they can't hit me, but I have a problem with telling them that as a result I don't still have loving feelings for them.

My kids behavior reallly never does change my absolute love and adoration for them. They really don't hurt my feelings because I recognize that so much of what they do and say comes from acting out their strong feelings of attachment.

My girls are lovely empathetic people. But they have the absoulte knowledge that my love for them is always there and that I truly always want to hug them. (Even my very pre-teen 11 y.o.)

[Divina]

nak i'd have to say that yes, unconditional love is tremendously important--and not just for our kids, but also for our partners and ourselves. no matter how much i love a person, including my kids, there are times when i don't want to be with them, or hug them, or put their needs ahead of mine. when my kids do something that makes me angry or hurts me i will break off contact momentarily, with an explanation "that hurts, and i am not willing to let you hurt me" "i'm angry right now and i don't want to talk to you until i'm calmer" i also make it clear that they are allowed to express anger, hurt, etc, but not by hitting or otherwise hurting someone else. if i pretend i feel affectionate when i am angry, i believe that models destructive behavior for them. it's not an easy area.
as far as op and dealing with defiance, tantrums etc, it's a very frustrating problem. as much as possible, i shop in a smallish store where my 3yo ds can help push a cart (they have kid-size carts) and have him help choose some things, put things in, take them out at checkout, put the cart away, etc. he usually gets a small treat--he likes these little cheese thingys they have. he gets a lot of positive attention from me and the store personnel and other shoppers--very nice now that the baby gets so much attention! i find big box places are more difficult, and the more harried i am the more he reacts to that. so, as much as i can manage, i keep trips short, don't go to more than 2 big boxes in a row (and only one if at all possible) and do something fun for him at regular intervals, like stopping at the video store, which has a fun play area, and letting him have a really long time there. in the big stores, he is always in the cart. if he behaves well, he gets to ride the pony ride at the end. if we spend too long, we both get tired and grumpy.
a typical pattern will be big grocery store, cafe for snack, smaller store, home. if weather permits, we'll walk to the park or the library after a rest. i keep snacks and dipes in the car and try to make sure there's time for little breaks. i let him ride in the 'car' style carts at the big store. we'll stop and look at somthing he finds interesting--like the aquarium fish at walmart or the lobster tank at the grocery. and i have learned the hard way not to try to do too much in one trip or even one day. and to make sure he doesn't get bored or tired or hungry. (me too--it definitely adds to the grouchy factor)

[famousmockngbrd]

It's perfectly legitimate to not want to hug someone who has just hurt you. It has nothing to do with not loving them. I hope my DS knows I love him no matter what. But just because I love him, it doesn't mean I am always going to be smiling and huggy and rainbows and sunshine. No honest relationship is like that.

[wildmonkeys]

My older son is very strong-willed and has spent the past couple of years seeing whether or not he can push some of my limits.

It does help to remeber that it is an appropriate part of development rather than defiant. I don't want my child to "obey" me - I want him to learn to make good choices.

As for the situations the op raised - I would absolutely tell him - if you continue to do XXX you can not come to the store with me next time. I would then go in the evening when my spouse is home with my younger child - my experience was that it only took one time of being left out of an outing to leave an impression.

Likewise, I may have "thrown out" the cookies (sent them to work with dh) or walked them over to a neighbors.

These responses may seem harsh but I would much rather impose a strict consequence that be mad....

BJ
dss 1 & 5

[heartmama]

Well put fmb.

Sorry Heartsmama, we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I believe that children have an absolute right to unconditional love from us their parents.

I have no problem telling my kids that I am not happy with their behavior, or that they can't hit me, but I have a problem with telling them that as a result I don't still have loving feelings for them

If we disagree thats fine, but you have misquoted me and I am going to clarify what I actually said.

Nothing was said in my post about not having unconditional love. Nothing was said in my posts about "as a result I don't still have loving feelings for them".

Please quote where you thought I said anything of the sort?

I said that parenting with equality and without punishment requires openness and honesty about feelings. Knowing how loved and gently parented my child is, I have no fear of showing him I am capable of being hurt, of showing concern for my feelings when they are hurt, and this has helped enormously in teaching responsibility and compassion.

They really don't hurt my feelings because I recognize that so much of what they do and say comes from acting out their strong feelings of attachment.

I felt this way when he was a baby and toddler, and to an extent there is always an awareness on my part that his understanding as a child is not fully formed, and there will be times that he is hurtful without knowing it, or that he acts out for reasons still beyond his own conscious awareness. That is part of being a child, and truthfully, it is the very reason that striking a balance of living without punishment or demands for obedience can be challenging.

However at some point between 3 and adulthood, I think it's important to really grasp the understanding that regardless of WHY you felt like hurting someone, no matter how justfied your frustration, how you feel isn't an excuse for choosing to hurt someone.

It is true that children hurt us because they love us and feel so safe with us. And I think a child who feels that safe can also handle some honest expression from us of how they made us feel. It is a balance, it takes a great deal of sensitivity to know whether this is a moment where your child is just feeling lost and needs MORE attention and help. Discerning that from moments where a child needs honest expressions of how WE feel isn't always easy. And not just descriptive "Mommy feels sad inside" with a smile. For most people that won't feel genuine and the child knows it. I think it is alright to say "Hey! That was not okay, it really crossed a line, you really hurt me and I'm upset" sometimes, and to let your child do a little introspective thinking, and come up with the compassion and concern to set things right again.

That has NOTHING to do with not loving your child unconditionally.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by heartmama

Having that security does not happen because the parent always appears ..., loving **It happens because the parent is never cruel, vengeful, or hateful**

I see mothers who confuse love with always acting nurturing and adoring.

According to www.hyperdictionary.com, to adore means to "love intensly"


Sorry I misconstrued but there was defintiely some ambiguity in what you wrote.


That being said, I don't have an "equal" realtionship with my kids. I guess this is where we differ. I definitely view myself as being on a different level then them. Our family definitely operates on a "parents in charge" mode.

I don't consider myself completely AP obviously. I do use GD and don't punish.

[stirringleaf]

ok, running this by everyone in consideration of what has been said since my last post , as i am still struggling with this

again, alot of the suggestions that were made were good, but i do try those things. so i am going to be a stinker and keep asking about it....about parkinglots, the issue of my world right now...

ok, so i *do* tell him the reason i have to hold his hand in almost identical terms as others have suggested. this has worked, but in the last month or so, it has NOT worked more often than it HAS. suddenly he just treats that statement like a boring broken record he has heard already ( and any way i try to twist it into a fun game like "lets go fast together and hold hands!" or "lets hop together!") and he just wants to do what he wants.

also , in most instances where we have power struggles it is usually a saftey issue as i dont have alot of rules except no hurting people , and stuff like that. ok and no shoes on the bed. but i really do try to keep the "no" situations to a minimum via prevention.

however. were still having probs in parking lots, and with other things too. i am trying to say that there are these times where NOTHING works, and they seem to be incresing. in some of those situations i have to act fast to protect him or others...no time for talking. this drives him nuts understandably but he simply doenst understand the dangers i am protecting him from ( namely streets and parkinglots, lol)

what i am hearing is i just keep telling him the reasons, and keep loving him and this will pass? my son just does not reapond the way some of you describe yours .....but i hope thats true that i just keep repeating this approach and it will sink in?.

about thinking they are "trying to be bad" i never think my son is trying to be bad and i know he is trying to send me a message. the trouble is when the message is " i need to be independant" in the middle of a parking lot, to the point where i am afraid for his life, i need to act. my only choice is to pick him up and unfortunalty make him feel even LESS independant, in order to protect him.

today it was sand throwing. i feel like i have to be swift with him. like give one warning and then remove him from the situation. but i feel like friends with more passive kids think i am mean when i do this. i am really self concious. but i told him, "please keep the sand down low, and just drop it like this," and gave other suggestions . i told him, "remember when you got sand in your eye and it hurt so much? " he nodded yes. "please keep the sand down so you dont get it in your eye" ( starts throwing it higher) "ok. if you do it one more time i have to bring you over by the stroller, becaseu you arent listening. ( does it one more time) in the meantime my freind looks like she is going into protect mode of her sensitive, quiet, son who never acts like this. my voice is calm, but firm. this scares her son, and i am very concious of that and dont want to upset him but at the same time i need to talk to my DS....my head feels like its going to explode in these situations, from thinking so hard about the "best" way to handle things

then i take ds by the stroller and try to talk to him. then he runs over to try throwing sand but the rest of us stay by the stroller and ignore it. eventually he gets tired of it, but not cuz i asked him to stop, it has to be his own terms. sometimes his own terms are fine but not if its hurting someone...

this is hard becasue its very common, like every other outing we go on. i am limited becasue i cant physically pick him up and remove him the same way i could when he was tiny. when i try to talk it out he just avoids me and gets frantic about X behavior, does it more. he is a very sweet, playful, intelligent, sharing, well "listening" kind of kid alot , and i know he is capable. he just gets an idea in his head and is really stubborn. does most things out of stubbornness than meanness. i think he will be a strong person, especailly if i handle these situations well. but its scary to feel i am doing it all wrong sometimes.