"Holiday" tree my &%#@!!!

[LunaMom]

Come on, are they really fooling anyone?

My daughter's elementary school has a big Christmas tree just inside the entrance. Of course, they called it a "holiday tree" and covered it with donated hats and mittens that will be given to charity, but it is still a tree with lights on it. Calling it a holiday tree is ridiculous because there's only one holiday that uses trees with lights as symbols. And of course it would be "bad" to complain because it's for CHARITY.

Yes, somewhere in the school lobby they pasted up a couple of dreidels made of paper. In the back. But it's hard to see them past the dazzling Christmas lights at the front.

I have no problem with Christmas. I understand that the majority of people in this country are Christians. I don't expect people to hide their holiday from me just because I'm not Christian. But I wish school would stop the b.s. and either come right out and admit that it's a CHRISTMAS tree in the lobby and not insult me and others by pretending it's not.

Public schools should either display all holiday symbols equally or not have any at all and stick to snowflakes and snowmen.

[CarrieMF]

While it is true that there is only 1 time of year(holiday season) with the tree decorated with lights it is not only about Christianity. Other spiritualities celebrate with decorated trees and the origion of the Xmas tree is Pagan not Christian. A lighted tree is not a symbol of any specific religion anymore. Calling it a Holiday Tree is the PC way of dealing with the different spiritualities. If you want the school to recognize other(your) religions than talk to them.

[Simply Nurtured]

There are also Christians who do not go along with "Christmas" trees.

We homeschool, so we do not encounter your problem, LunaMom. But I do know and have helped families who left public schools for just the reasons you are stating. They did not agree with the school centering lessons/displays, etc around holidays they did not celebrate. Some people do not go along with Halloween for instance, or Valentine's Day, or Santa Claus. I wish I could help you, I understand your frustration. The original public institutions were constructed and funded by large corporations who needed workers, so they wanted everyone to be the same.

I think if they just stuck to Reading, Writing, Spelling, Grammar and Math, it might be better and more respectful of cultural/spiritual/personal beliefs. JMHO

[lauren]

I do think it's an interesting question, because I can remember some Christians I used to know being upset about Christmas trees because they had pagan origins. As far as I know, this is true. The Christmas tree is more connected to Solstice and Solstice festivals than the Christian traditions (because of the emphasis on the evergreen, lights, etc.) Yes, Christians did sort of co-opt this tradition (along with many others that coincided with this time of year), but at this point I think (just my opinion) that culturally, the tree is not seen as Christian any more. I think if there were crosses up at Easter that would be a different story. It would be interesting to hear others opinions.

[AmyB]

The evergreen tree is a symbol that life persists throughout the darkness of wintertime, and the lights represent confidence that the sun and springtime will eventually return.

It's hard for me to believe that there is any culture, spritual practice or worldview (including atheism) that couldn't find some meaning in the symbolism of an evergreen tree decorated with lights in the dead of winter.

--AmyB

[boston]

I call them "holday trees." We are pagan, though. And we celebrate Yule. so w have at our house, a yule/solstice tree. But outside of the house when we see trees, we call them "holiday" trees. to avoid confusing dd, 3, about what we celebrate.

[LunaMom]

I understand that the origin of the tree is not of a religious nature; however, I do not think that the faculty at DD's school put the tree up as a sign of the solstice. To most people in this country, a tree with lights on it is a Christmas tree. I have nothing against trees or lights, but please don't tell me that it's wrong of me to see this as a Christmas symbol. Reindeer aren't a religious symbol, either - a deer is just an animal, right? - but reindeer decorations are symbolic of SANTA'S reindeer, who pull the SLEIGH filled with toys for CHRISTMAS. I'm not trying to be bitchy, but come on. We all know that the real world is not like MDC.

And I don't agree with PC terms meant to appease people who are not in the majority. They wouldn't put up a menorah decoration and call it a "holiday candleholder" because people are not that stupid.

[Linda KS]

Originally Posted by LunaMom

They wouldn't put up a menorah decoration and call it a "holiday candleholder" because people are not that stupid.

That is soooo funny. :

[Greaseball]

I agree with having it all-or-nothing. Why not take this time of year as an opportunity to spend an equal amount of time teaching about every winter holiday and tradition?

[moondiapers]

I have a tree with lights in my livingroom, even has presents under it, but it's a YULE tree Our local elementary school has a holiday tree up. It has mini menorahs, suns (solstice symbols), santas, and christian symbols on it. It even has kwanza images It's a beautiful holiday tree.


-Heather

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by LunaMom

I understand that the origin of the tree is not of a religious nature; however, I do not think that the faculty at DD's school put the tree up as a sign of the solstice. To most people in this country, a tree with lights on it is a Christmas tree. I have nothing against trees or lights, but please don't tell me that it's wrong of me to see this as a Christmas symbol. Reindeer aren't a religious symbol, either - a deer is just an animal, right? - but reindeer decorations are symbolic of SANTA'S reindeer, who pull the SLEIGH filled with toys for CHRISTMAS.

I with ya, LunaMom. While Christianity may have co-opted the tree symbol from other faiths, it did so very effectively.

There's also been a fair amount of outcry from Christians about how the term "holiday tree" dilutes the meaning of what they consider to be their religious symbol.

[Overproducktion]

The evergreen tree is a symbol that life persists throughout the darkness of wintertime, and the lights represent confidence that the sun and springtime will eventually return.

I learn something new every day. That is beautiful imo.

[Kirsten]

Are you bothered because they aren't calling it what it is (a Christmas tree) or because all different holidays aren't represented equally?

I am an atheist. We always have a Christmas tree - I am ALL about the biggest tree we can get. We have presents. Relatives come. Stockings are hung on the fireplace. To me, Christmas is the Santa gig; Easter is the bunny. I don't associate the tree or bunny/egg decorations with religion. If they were hanging crosses in my kid's public school, I would have an issue.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

OK, off topic...

Originally Posted by LunaMom

Reindeer aren't a religious symbol, either - a deer is just an animal, right? - but reindeer decorations are symbolic of SANTA'S reindeer, who pull the SLEIGH filled with toys for CHRISTMAS.

Just to be clear, Santa is all about what I would term "secular Christmas". It has nothing to do with Christian Christmas, which I tend to think of as a separate holiday. Yes, it is probably a bastardization of Saint Nicholas, but really has no connect with the birth of Christ. So, while I'm a Christian who celebrates Christmas (the birth of Christ, not the worship of commercializem), I'm not hot on Santa and reindeer either.

[Arduinna]

yes, pleaseeeeee tell me if anyone really believes that the tree was put up as a multicultural symbol. Give me a break, I'm not fooling myself on that one. They are not intending to include pagans that celebrate Yule or Solstice (not all do BTW). In fact I bet if that concept got out that tree would be gone in a heartbeat (depending on where you live).

[Deborah]

Well, things have improved in the last 70 years.

My mother, a member of a family of Jewish atheists, living in Northern Indiana, not only had Christmas openly celebrated at her public school, she was expected to play the piano for the Christmas carol singing. This was in the 20's and 30's. Her older brother, a really good pianist and later a composer of weird 12 tone music, got stuck with this chore first. Since he has always hated any form of popular music, he got a double whammy!

Absolutely no one, including my mother and uncle, thought there was anything unfair about this at the time. Minorities had no expectations of being considered at that point in U.S. history. Much later, my mother told the story as an amusing anecdote of her childhood and youth. Since Indiana was a hot bed of Klu Klux Klan activity during the 20's, they were probably lucky that the community tolerated them, that the children of the family had friends who were allowed to play with them, etc.

Just a little longer term perspective. I must say I'm a bit worried about the long-term hopes of religious tolerance in the U.S. Things are not looking good at the moment.

Nana

[LunaMom]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

yes, pleaseeeeee tell me if anyone really believes that the tree was put up as a multicultural symbol. Give me a break, I'm not fooling myself on that one. They are not intending to include pagans that celebrate Yule or Solstice (not all do BTW). In fact I bet if that concept got out that tree would be gone in a heartbeat (depending on where you live).

Thank you, Arduinna, that's exactly what I mean. And yes, I'm POSITIVE that if anyone said it was a pagan symbol they'd take it down so fast there wouldn't be a single plastic pine needle remaining.

Kirsten, I think that the labeling of it as a "holiday tree" bothers me more than its actual presence. As far as its presence goes, I would prefer it if it weren't the first thing you see when you enter the school, though. If they are going to have "holiday" symbols up, perhaps a small table in the lobby with a little tree, a menorah, a kinara (the Kwanzaa candleholder), and any other symbols of winter holidays, all represented equally.

[Tiacsophno]

Our public school doesn't have an evergreen tree in the lobby, but my kindergartner had a "Holiday" Party yesterday in class, but the parents, kids and teachers all referred to it as a Christmas Party. The kids decorated cupcakes as Rudolph. She brought home a Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer craft, and coloring pages of toy-filled stockings and candy canes. The kids have been singing Christmas songs in class (ex. Rock Around the Christmas Tree). The principal dressed up as Santa a couple of times this month, wandering the halls and handing out candy canes.

According to dd, they did one morning talk about Hannukah and menorahs. One kid in her class celebrates both Hannukah and Christmas at home. And the "Holiday" Concert included the dreidel song. A nod to Judiasm seems to be as inclusive as the school can get.

We are agnostic, but celebrate solstice/Yule and secular Christmas at home. Most of the people in our area are Irish Catholic.