Is It Just Me, Or Does Anyone Else ...? - Page 3

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by pajara2

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

That helps explain why you only nursed for 6 months. Maybe you have some issues surrounding breasts and have been unable to reconcile their non-sexual functions.

There actually have been threads about this very topic, and some people have reports that they or they husbands DO remember being nursed, and that it was a wonderful memory of feeling loved and safe.

Why would it be any different? Is there something dirty about nursing a toddler?

Originally Posted by pajara2

As earlier questioned, this isn't based on a report, or study, or article; just based on my opinion and what I would imagine my feelings to be. I think it's admirable that we as mothers make so many decisions based on what is best for our children, if you feel breastfeeding until self weening is best, then I admire you for the sacrifice/gift/decision you have made, whether I understand it or not.

I appreciate you clarifying that. Your feeling on this subject is not uncommon at all, so I find it admirable that you're even asking the question and trying to understand. I think what you have to keep in mind is that historically, babies have ALWAYS been nursed as toddlers - you can even find references in the bible to it. Breastfeeding fell out of favor post-WWII because we didn't understand the benefits, and we're still feeling the effects of that - people of that generation thought breastfeeding was gross and nasty, and they passed along that feeling to our generation.

The book "Our Babies, Ourselves" puts this subject in eloquent perspective by studying the evolution of our species and how other cultures operate. I highly recommend it, it may help you understand where us EN'ers are coming from.

[onlyboys]

Originally Posted by pajara2

My question, I guess, in a way, is this:

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

You were very respectful in your post. I appreciate that.

I remember nursing the same way I remember snuggling up with my parents in their soft, warm bed at night--with a little bit of an ache and a need to duplicate it for my own sweet babies.

My son still remembers nursing; I don't think he's creeped out by it, but I'll ask him if he is. I highly doubt it, though, as he is planning to ONLY marry a woman who will nurse his babies. :LOL

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by RubyV

Good point Kristi. Brests as sexual objects are a result of culture, not biology.

Does anyone remember who the anthropologists was that did the study about south american indiginous cultures and their view on the Western obsession with breasts? Those men thought it was sick and infantile that Western men viewed breasts sexually. In their culture, breasts are for babies and small children. Men are into butts.

So, no, breasts as sexual objects are based in cultural conditioning.

Fascinating! I'd love to read about it.

[mcsarahb]

Originally Posted by pajara2

So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

I have actual memories of breastfeeding. My mom nursed me and my brother until age 4. I am (well, I hope I am) well-adjusted, independent and not grossed out.

Sarah

[Evergreen]

Ok, newlife, I am going to assume you are not a troll, and are just a young confused woman aabout to become a mom who hasn't had much experience in regards to child raising. Forgive me, please, as I will probably be repeating afew things, but since it obviously didn't sink in the first time, I don't think that should be a problem.

Originally Posted by newlife

I think that when you come upon the first year, the initial mother infant bond has been well established if you were breastfeeding.

But why does this mean that breastfeeding should cease at one year? My daughter was the same child with the same nutritional needs the day before she turned one as she was the day after she turned one. What makes you think this arbitrary age is when mothers should cut their babies off. One year olds are still babies, half of them can not walk, many haven't begun to say words, and a vast majority still wear diapers. Yes, the mother-infant bond has been well-estabilished, so why break it and cause unnessesary hardship for a child who can not possibly understand why mommy won't let him nurse?

Originally Posted by newlife

But my point is that as your child grows into these different stages, the type of bonding as well as the type of bond is and should be different.

There isn't much difference between a 10 month old and a 13 month old, like I said before. Try explaining to each of them why they can't nurse anymore, and you will more than likely get the same reaction.

Originally Posted by newlife

You all believe in child-lead weaning, so let me ask you this if your child is 8 or 9 years old, and has not and/or is not ready to wean yet, what would you do? Or what if your child has weaned, but at the age of 13 or 14, they decide that they want to go back to breast milk, by being breastfeed?

At the age of eight or nine years old, I could explain that I no longer felt comfortable continuing the relationship and the child could comprehend why. That doesn't work in a two year old. Plus very few kids are still nursing at that age. I have never heard of anyone nursing at the age of 14, think about it, would you have wanted to nurse whan you were 14?

Originally Posted by newlife

I ask that because I am more that sure most, and hopefully all of you would be very disturbed if you saw a 10 year old being breastfeed.

DIsturbed isn't the right word for it. Yes, I may be slightly taken aback at first, but that would by my problem, not theirs.

Originally Posted by newlife

simply because they are something that attracts the opposite sex, making the sexy silhouette that a woman has.

What are you saying? THat 15 month old babies have sexual fantasies about their mothers' breasts???? :

Originally Posted by newlife

but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.

Oh, so that is why the USA (with abyssmally low rates of breastfeeding toddlers) has such a high rate of mental illness! Seriously, where do you get your facts, Dr. Freud? The world wide average age for weaning is 4.2years I am having trouble seeing why a biological component of our early lives would provide "issues" when it really provides nutrition, antibodies, and bonding.

Didi you know that Michael Jordan was breastfed for three years, Michael jackson wasn't breastfed at all. Which one do you think had problems that manifested later in life?

[raleigh_mom]

I've tried to read all the replies - I may have missed some. It may be a troll or not, but I've certainly enjoyed reading from so many other EBF'ers. I've seen some people list the health benefits to the children - stronger immune systems, etc. and I certainly enjoy knowing that I have a way to help my kids be healthy. One thing I haven't seen yet is the benefits for mom to EBFing. The decrease in risk for breast cancer and osteoperosis(sp?). Maybe not what people want to consider when they think we are abusing our kids, but it's still important to me. Keeping myself healthy is an important part of taking care of my kids.

[Mama K]

That's a pretty silly question to ask on this forum. If everyone here thought nursing past a year was weird, there wouldn't be an EXTENDED nursing forum... :LOL

You will probably change your mind after your baby comes. Before Katie was born, I thought I would wean after a year. Now I want to go at least two years, and CLW is preferred...

[darlindeliasmom]

you know, I have no response other than to feel sorry for women who arbitrarily make this choice--they will never know the wonderful peace that a nursing mom knows when her tantruming 3-yr-old is soothed back to happiness with a nursing session...or the owies soothed away (owies that get scarier as children climb higher!).
Just yesterday, my nearly 8-yr-old banged her chin on a restaurant table. She is weaned, but our first reponse was to "assume the position", long legs and all, crawling into my lap. She knows that kids with hurts, whether emotional or physical, belong in the loving arms of their dear ones...wait, don't we all?!?

So, if this is a troll, bye bye. But to the other readers and posters, hugs and support. may you enjoy this short time with your little ones as much as I and my only dd did...it will fly by, believe me.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by raleigh_mom

I've tried to read all the replies - I may have missed some. It may be a troll or not, but I've certainly enjoyed reading from so many other EBF'ers. I've seen some people list the health benefits to the children - stronger immune systems, etc. and I certainly enjoy knowing that I have a way to help my kids be healthy. One thing I haven't seen yet is the benefits for mom to EBFing. The decrease in risk for breast cancer and osteoperosis(sp?). Maybe not what people want to consider when they think we are abusing our kids, but it's still important to me. Keeping myself healthy is an important part of taking care of my kids.

Good point! And, the benefit is greater the longer a mom nurses. A mom's risk for getting breast cancer goes down for each year that she spends nursing. For a woman who's nursed at least 2 years of her life, her chances of getting rheumatoid arthritis go down about 50%!

[MamaAllNatural]

Oh how I wish I was Cynthia and had a magic wand right now. :

Originally Posted by boston

Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of skeeved out by people still nursing at age 3, or older. I just don't think it's necessary.

Boston I hope you realize how hurtful this comment was to thousands of the mothers (and their nurslings) here. I also hope you read all of the thoughtful responses to the troll(s) because you sound uneducated on the subject as well.

[pajara2]

Thanks to all the mom's that answered respectfully and didn't blast me. I also appreciate everyone relating their memories about nursing. I will look up the book 'Our Babies, Ourselves'. There are other 'social norms' that evolved in American culture that I don't accept...so I will further research this one too.

In answer to the mom who asked why I quit nursing at 6mos...with my son it's because what little I had read said that most of the benefit was achieved by then (i.e. immune stuff) and I was younger and lazier...once he got old enough to hold a bottle, it was more time efficient to give him the bottle and keep working around the house, etc. I know not an acceptable reason, but that was the truth of it then.

The reason I probably won't extended nurse now, and y'all might help me with this, is that I will have to return to work probably at 3 mos, definitely by 6 mos. I'm still looking into expressing, etc. But with my son (mind you using some dinkey Wal-Mart brand pump) I wasn't able to express enough to make it worth putting in the bottle, I tried for a while. But this time I'm going to use the hospital pump. And if it works then I don't mind expressing and sending him/her to childcare with bottles of breastmilk and nurse when I'm with him/her. But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Thanks for all the discussion on this...although I wish the OP had stated it more delicately... I'm glad for this thread 'cause it was something I was too scared to bring up myself.

[charmarty]

: For once I am going to keep my mouth shut

Respectfully,
Charmarty who is on Double Booby Duty for two 4 year olds.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by pajara2

But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Well, my workplace is pretty supportive, although I didn't ask if I could pump, I just do it. I still pump twice a day and my DS just turned one.

I have a Medela Pump In Style, and it has worked great. Some moms notice a bit of a supply decrease after they've been pumping for a while, and there are some herbs which help to restore supply (I take domperidone).

If your workplace will allow you to pump, I would recommend getting a good pump (some women get better results from a hospital-grade pump than a Pump In Style, and some don't - I think it will depend on whether you can just set it up and leave it there, or whether you have to take the pump home at night - for the latter, I recommend the Pump In Style). Just go from there, and don't put too much pressure on yourself.

My biggest advice regarding pumping is to make it YOU-time. Get a hands-free bra (or make one - I just cut two little slits in a sports bra and it works great!), some good books you will enjoy (or parenting magazines), and use the time to relax, unwind, and enjoy. I guarantee you will pump MUCH longer at work if you can do that.

I know it's a big investment to get a Medela Pump In Style, but believe me, they're worth it! And, you can sell it on ebay or to a friend when you're done (tell that to your SO if you are having trouble justifying the expense).

Hope this helps! I never dreamed I would be an extended nurser, but I'm SO glad I'm sticking with this. It is such a wonderful bonding time (especially now that he's older and doesn't sit still unless we're nursing), and it gets SO much easier when they're older - there's a huge difference between nursing a 6 month old and a 1 year old!

Hope this helps.

[BlueStateMama]

Um, Newlife? Toddlers and teenagers = apples and oranges...no basis for comparison. I'll go so far as to say I don't think MDC has ever had a member nursing a 10 year old....so what's your point?

Also, I think it bears repeating that the AAP recommended MINUMUM for nursing is ONE YEAR (note: not "maximum" not "limit", but MINIMUM for optimal health) Further, as a child needs to be on breastmilk or formula at least until one year, I don't understand why anyone would *choose* to stop nursing their child and give them an inferior substitute and intentional short-change them.

[chickabiddy]

But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

I only work part-time, but I'd like to share that after about eight months, my milk supply was pretty well established. My daughter (who's 2 years 9 months and considers nursing to be *very* necessary indeed) sometimes nurses every hour and sometimes goes 8 hours without nursing -- and I'm never "empty" and rarely engorged. Breasts are wonderful!

[sohj]

Originally Posted by newlife

Okay is it just me or does anyone else find something wrong with breastfeeding after one year? ...

Well, since you asked it that way....

Here, it is probably just you. On Babycenter, the majority, by faaaaar, would agree with you.

I don't go to Babycenter. I find them repulsive on this subject and perverse in their determination to continue the arbitrary sexualization of breasts.


Yours,

a nursing mother with a 2.66 year old and working a demanding full-time engineering job. No problems. And, yes, I nurse in public.

{EDITED TO ADD: And we are going to let my little one lead the way in weaning. And, something I don't get, I've had people express amazement at me and wonder if I was going to stop when "he can ask for it"...to which I repied: "So, let me get this straight, you think that once someone gets up the communication skills to actually ask for what they want or need, I'm supposed to deny them? How does that foster a good communication relationship?"}

[Dmitrizmom]

But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

I'm a full time student (I'm in class from 7:30am-4pm 5 days a week, I went back to school when dd was 7 mo). I've managed to ensure that she got bm at daycare by pumping at least 3 times a day and building a freezer stash. I haven't pumped for a while - dd is now 16.5 months. This week she is finishing up the last of my freezer stash. She still nurses alot when we are at home - especially at night (reverse cycling).

I second (third?) the recommendation of getting a good electric pump. I have both a lactina and PIS. Since you have 3 months maternity leave, you will have some time to build a stash (if you have success with pumping) for when you return to work. If you do have some trouble with pumping, come and ask questions - I'm sure that you'll get plenty of suggestions that might help.

I'm a strong believer in that I will regret not nursing my child, but I really don't care if my house isn't completely clean.

FWIW, before I had ds, I planned on only nursing to a year. He self-weaned at a year and I was devastated. with dd, I'm definitely doing CLW, and hoping that she'll want to go past her 2nd birthday.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by pajara2

The reason I probably won't extended nurse now, and y'all might help me with this, is that I will have to return to work probably at 3 mos, definitely by 6 mos. I'm still looking into expressing, etc. But with my son (mind you using some dinkey Wal-Mart brand pump) I wasn't able to express enough to make it worth putting in the bottle, I tried for a while. But this time I'm going to use the hospital pump. And if it works then I don't mind expressing and sending him/her to childcare with bottles of breastmilk and nurse when I'm with him/her. But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Also, keep in mind that breastfeeding does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition. Although the AAP recommends *exclusive* breastfeeding (i.e. no formula, no water, no food) for the first six months, it is far, far better for baby's health (and yours) to continue the nursing relationship and nurse at home mornings, evenings, and on weekends and send formula to daycare if the pumping just doesn't work out. Once baby starts solids, too, the need for pumped breastmilk (or formula) may go down.

A lot of extended nursers who work outside the home may stop pumping at 12 months or so, but their nurslings are happy to keep nursing when they're with mommy but eat solids, drink cow's milk (or another milk alternative), or whatever when they're at daycare.

Whatever you decide with respect to pumping, please don't think that you have to stop breastfeeding because you are going back to work at 3 months. You and your child can be flexible and keep up the nursing relationship, with all its many, many physical and emotional benefits to both of you, no matter what happens to be in her bottle at daycare.

[newlife]

Originally Posted by RubyV

Excuse my bluntness, but why are you here on the extended nursing board? If you find the idea of bf a toddler to be a sexual and gross act, why post here? What sexual damage will nursing past 365 days create, out of curiosity? On what are you basing this assesment? What research?

As for a nursing 13 yo, It might be easier to take you seriously if you kept your posts in the realm of reality.

Wonder if my local bridge has lost their troll?

This is directed to newlife, just to be clear

Excuse my bluntness, but why are you here on the extended nursing board? If you find the idea of bf a toddler to be a sexual and gross act, why post here? What sexual damage will nursing past 365 days create, out of curiosity? On what are you basing this assesment? What research?

Actually, I can looking for more info on breastfeeeding in general, and then started reading through the threads, which lead me to my initial question. Why post here? I had a question, simple. You say 365 days so definately, I say a year; meaning a years and some days or months. I don't know for sure that nursing after 365 days can cause any damage, but I do think that when you get to the point that a child may be able to recall this when they get older it COULD be a problem. And with all of the emtional problems that children today are growing up with, I don't see why something else should be added on. I am basing my assesment on my own personal opinion, which I, as everyone else here, have the right to have and express.


As for a nursing 13 yo, It might be easier to take you seriously if you kept your posts in the realm of reality.

That is just my point, what is the realm of reality here. By your comment I assume that you would find something wrong with seeing a mother breastfeed a 13 year old. And although I doubt that the body would let you continue to nurse a child for 13 years, it is always possible. And even if it were'nt whose is to say that a mother who has a 13 year old also has an infant that is beaing breastfeed. And who is to say that the same mother doesn't see a problem with breastfeeding her 13 year old either? I mean I would think from what I have read that there will still be a nutritional benefit. So just what would be the problem? And if you are saying that something like that is not or can not happen in the world that we live in today, well I would suggest that you get in the realm of reality.

And as a last note, from what I have read I am guessing a troll is a person posing to be someone else on a forum. Sorry, but that is not me. I am eiht months pregnant with my first child who happens to be a boy, and just because my posts or questions do not conform to the norm on this board does not mean, that I am her posing as someone that I am not.

[newlife]

Originally Posted by onlyboys

So, the mom should pump her breasts? What if she can't? Poor baby, I guess; he or she just misses out on breastmilk into her 2nd year...

And, when does a baby become a toddler become a child? Who makes these arbitrary guidelines?

I really have no problem with you asking questions (even ones that could potentially hurt other mamas) but at least LISTEN to what people are telling you. Read back through the links. Understand that you don't have enough life wisdom yet to make blanket statements like you are.

Also, I was breastfed into my 3rd year. So was my brother. I feel pretty good about myself, and we're both healthy and happy.

I doubt after, nursing for a year that a mother won't be able to pump her breasts. And in my opinion a baby becomes a toddler at 2 years old, a toddler becomes a child at 4 years old, a child becomes a teenager at 13 years old, and a teenager beomes an adult at about 20 or 21 years old. These are my guidelines. I base them mostly on age, but if you are talking about maturity well that of course depends on the child.

None of my posts are meant to hurt anyone at all, so I hope no one takes them that way. I am just stating my opinion, and I was trying to get the views of others; which I did at first. But now it seems that many are taking my opinions personally, which I have no control over. I am trying to listen to what others have to say, but unfortunately many others are now simply being catty. What brings on wisdom. Not age, not motherhood, but knowledge. Now where this knowledge comes from is a whole different story. So not all wisdom is true wisdom, so I never take anything that anyone ahs to say at face value, whether they be mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers, or even scientists.

I am glad you and your brother are healthy and happy. But the problem is number one you and your brother were living in a different world when you were 3 years old, not today. And that is where I believe this whole issue lies.