How well does the "religious reasons" waiver hold with authoiti

[subeetaho]

I am wondering if anyone else has had any run-ins with docs or other health "officials" regarding refusal of vacs?
In the last few months we have had a few trips to the ER - chickenpox, hand foot & mouth and an ear infection... just my babies getting used to being in daycare and around all the stress, I guess. Anyway - everytime I have run into the question of immunizations, I say "we don't vaccinate" and they get all indignant and push it... asking why and so forth... so I just came back with "religious reasons" figuring that would be taboo and not something they could attack or question... silly me.

Then I get in the room and the nurse and the doc start giving me the "pitch"

"I see you don't vaccinate, do you know that your child is going to be in danger if you don't? blah blah blah"

Isn't there an ethical line they cross at that point? Or do I give up my rights the minute I enter a medical facility? What about separation of church & state?

Does anyone have any good comebacks, bacause I want to really stand strong when they get in my face about it...I hate feeling like they are going to "convince me of the error of my ways" are they trying to get me to vaccinate my sick child right then & there?
somehow, I don't doubt it. :

[Dmitrizmom]

I haven't had any run-ins over it but s to you for having to deal with the idiots.

[Gitti]

Perhaps whatever reason you give them should end with "and I do not want to discuss it!"

You have to be firm about it and quite decided.

[alex-lynne]

Blessedwithboys just had a heath dept run-in..and held her own well...read that thread.
You bring up a good point...I would like to think you could enter a facility, state your belief and be respected. Wasn't there news recently that docs are going to be given the latitude to not treat someone if THEY feel ethically opposed. (I live in Mississippi..was this state news, only?)
So...the trend may actually be going in the other direction.
I like the idea that with a good comeback we can help educate or put someone in their place....in this same position I think I would take Gitti's advice...FIRMLY state it is against your beliefs and that you do not want to discuss it.
al

[Unoppressed MAMA Q]

i have had a run in

with indiana's child 'protection' services department. a caseworker filed against me in court that my child 'needed to receive necessary immunizations'.
since of course no 'immunizations' are necessary, they had to drop their court case before it went to trial. well of course it's not quite that simple, but you get the idea.
for 4 months i walked a very delicate balance of 'stand your ground' and 'don't agitate the ignorant, fearful bureaucratic caseworker'.
i had to hire a lawyer, but my child never left me and has not been filled up with ANY of that crap.
it does happen, and i fear that my story is one of the happier ones.
once a pediatrician started to give me the 'well, of course we recommend the necessary immunizations....'
i cut him off by saying 'yes, of course, and i deeply appreciate that you realize that i am just as literate and intelligent a person as you are. it's good to know that you acknowledge my authority as my children's mother as well.'
followed by a big 'don't F--- with me' kinda grin...
it seemed to be effective in that particular situation.

[DesireeH]

I see it says you live in Tahoe. Is that in CA or Nevada? I am in CA and here we have 3 exemptions, philosophical, religious, and medical. I claim the philosophical so that I dont have to try to think up beliefs that I could use on the spot like that.

I have something printed out and signed by myself and my dh so that if I ever have to go to the Dr or ER and they ask or pressure me, I will just hand them the paper and say "these are my reasons and it is final and I will not discuss it with you anymore." Be firm. Dont back down, it is your right as parents to decide not to inject your children with toxins.

[Sasha_girl]

My advice is to avoid hospital emergency rooms when it's at all possible. Dr's offices seem to be much more respectful of exceptions IME. The emergency room seems to operate on a "dope 'em up, ship 'em out" system that doesn't look kindly to questioning the system.

[sharon80]

HI,
I haven't run into anything yet, but I gained great info. and many good links at thinktwice.com, as well as 909shot.com. They link to many beneficial sites. Hope it helps and good luck!!!!

Sharon

[Red Sonja]

At the first ped's office we went to he came storming in and demanded "WHAT religious objections?" I told him that I was not there to discuss my religious beliefs. He was still obnoxious, condescending and belittling and tried to use scare tactics to get me to change my mind so I changed to a different pediatrician.

[TigerTail]

when our family doc said, "can i ask what religious objections?" (very politely, unlike ladybug's, which is why he still has our business), my response was, "no. and the supreme court backs that up." (also very politely, of course.) he waqnted my notarized paperwork to cover his own ass, & that was that. (when the kids caught pertussis, he couldn't say much, as he was treating a mini-epidemic of vaxxed kids with it at the time. i believe that's where we caught it- well baby visit, natch.)

suse

[BusyMommy]

Our ped is great, fortunately, but I did have a nurse in the practice ask me to sign a waiver for their clinic's liability. I simply said no and that I'd be happy to switch to a new practice if she was unable to accept my answer. I think they simply expect us to be stupid and ignorant. I have found that the less discussion the better. You do NOT have to justify yourself so don't get sucked into a "discussion."

[Red Sonja]

Originally Posted by suseyblue

when our family doc said, "can i ask what religious objections?" (very politely, unlike ladybug's, which is why he still has our business), my response was, "no. and the supreme court backs that up." (also very politely, of course.)

What backs up our right not to discuss our religious objections? I'd like to know so I can use that as a reference if I need to in the future. I haven't been able to find anything so far, so any help would be great!

[subeetaho]

All of these are great! I try to avoid the dr as much as I can, but I am a medi-CAL pt. and end up dealing with the county health dept as well as the community clinc... no, they don't expect me to be educated, for sure!

So I avoid "well-baby" checks, and all the rest to avoid confrontations...(are they supposed to be medically beneficial?) I don't even know how big my kids are, the last time we did a well baby check, I was told that breastfeeding wasn't going to keep my son from dying from measles - and that the little chunkalicious was underweight (ya, and that's why he LOOKS so healthy! : ) and my "petite" daughter, who is a pixie, but still has some beef on her...was too small... I guess I am too at 5'0"!!!

Still bf and non vax, thank you very much!

I really appreciate MDC mamas for being my place to feel good for being a loving and natural momma, instead of feeling like a freak of nature... how pitiful the world is when we are supposed to poison our babies and give them artificial everything (milk, food, etc..) My mom did all that for me, how come I was still in the dr office every week for vitamin shots because I couldn't regulate and hold on to what my body needed....?

Thanks for letting me rant, I think I will for sure make a print out for future reference...on breastfeeding too! so when my mom gives me a hard time, I can whip out my pamphlet!
hugs, mommas - keep up the ideas!

[TigerTail]

sorry, ladybug, just a vague memory from some dear soul's link here- wish i could be more specific (& not really certain i was 100% correct, lol, but i sounded sure & that was good enough for him.)

i'm guessing someone here knows more about the instance & state where it was decided they couldn't press you about being a specific denomination... (we home church anyway, & i will be happy to get into detail about why our 'brand' is different :P if they want to get into it.)

suse

[hunnybumm]

Here are the state laws for each state:
http://909shot.com/state-site/state-exemptions.htm

This page has all the laws pertaining to vaccinations, ie exemptions. We live in NC where only medical or religious exemtions work. On my excemption form it states the law with the numbers etc. The reason I picked the form that I did was because it had the law... how can they argue with the law when it is printed out infront of them and signed by the childs parents? Not much they can do.

As far as what to tell the docs. I tried explaining to them why we chose not to vax but that just got into a debate that neither side could win. We go to a practice with a lot of docs and RAs so we usually see someone new everytime. We haven't found someone we click with yet. So the last time I went in I just told the doc we weren't vaxing. She said "So your planning to home school?" I said I wasn't and she said "Well, you know you have to get him his shots before he starts school right?" I said "No, I don't." She said "Umm, yes you do." I very mater of factly and firmly said "No I don't, I just have to give them an exemption form." She said "What exemption form? Did a doctor give you one?" I told her we were using the religious exemption. She said "Uhhh what religion are you?" In a very polite voice I said "I don't have to tell you that." She just said ok and went on with the usually speel of how they reccomend getting the vaxes yadda yadda yadda. I also told her "I didn't go into this lightly. I did a lot of research untill I came to this decision. I didn't wake up one day and say 'I'm not going to vax just because I don't feel like.' I spent a lot of time and work getting the facts and I made a very enlightened decision." She said she was sure I did, and she sounded like she really ment it which was almost like a pat on the back for me.