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NT Mamas January Thread! - Page 3

post #41 of 243
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by gardenmommy
very hard to do that after such a long time vegetarian.
Boy I hear ya on that one. I was vegetarian for a good part of twenty years. Started back with fish, then bone broths and now bison.

Sometimes I get a really guilty feeling and I have to remind myself that I am eating ethically farmed food/organic etc. and it helps me a little better

I think that this is the most animal I can handle right now, we do eggs, butter, fermented dairy and raw cheese too.

Has anyone tried to slow dry the buttermilk pancakes? In the book she suggests that with the smaller thinner pancakes to put them in your oven at 150 degrees and slowly dry them to be canape like.

I was wondering if a spice in the pancake would be appropriate? I doubled the recipe for tomorrow morning and the first half I will make for breakfast then I thought I would put a spice in for the second part of the batter and make them small, thin and then dry them for a dinner party tomorrow night. Also thought I would make a tzatiki for them.

So what do you think about coriander as the spice?

post #42 of 243
Intentful lady, I wouldn't call myself a grass-fed "expert" but I have had grass-fed beef. I spent a summer in Bolivia and all the beef there was grass-fed. I found it to be tough and stringy - very difficult for me to eat. Of course there may have been factors other than the cows' diet, but I was told (by another American) that the main difference was that the cows there were grass-fed. I didn't like it at all (then again, I also wasn't much of a meat-eater back then).

If it were me, I'd go with Mercola's recommendation and make sure the cow had a few weeks of grain before slaughter.

Good luck to you!
post #43 of 243
We have completely pasture finished beef and it does not seem that tough to me. But that being said, I usually do ground meats or long stews, I'm not a big fan of giant hunks of meat.

post #44 of 243
Originally Posted by intentfulady
Well, I've located a cow. Grass fed only in a field. He's mine and I can have him butchered.

The butcher is beside himself. He's sure I won't like the flavor without at least a little grain. I've looked around a little, which is how much time I have to spend on computer.

Mercola site reccommends a few weeks of grain.

I can't keep the whole cow. I need to split it, and it's unlikely I will find any NT folks as I'm new in a tiny town. Although I have some buyers if it tastes good.

I'm curious about the details. The cow is also on the lean side as its January in CAnada.

Any thoughts or advice. should I wait till fall?
The butcher may be right about the flavor, and you may have an issue with it being tough as well, but it's not as simple as grain-finished vs. fully grassfed. I buy completely grassfed beef from a ranch in my region, and the flavor is wonderful, very beefy but not gamey (not anything like the insipid feedlot beef from the grocery store, either), and the cuts that are supposed to be tender, are (the better cuts of steak like t-bone, porterhouse, filet mignon, rib steaks, and rib roasts). They've studied how to finish beef on grass, and while I don't know the specifics, whatever they do works. I think it has something to do with finishing on green, growing grass. I wouldn't expect anything like the same results from a "lean" cow (steer?) out in a field in January. If you've already paid for this animal, it might be better to wait to butcher it until whatever season is the end of your green, growing grass (late spring/early summer? don't know specifically for your region). Another thing that can make a HUGE difference is dry aging. Can your butcher hang the carcass for you for 2-3 weeks? Dry aging allows enzymes to start tenderizing, and it concentrates the flavor by allowing for evaporation of some of the moisture. (You can also dry age individual cuts of meat at home in your refrigerator, I've done this with roasts and it makes a difference, and I think in some cases it can even be more effective in improving tenderness and flavor than hanging the carcass before it's portioned. Let me know if you want specifics on how to do that.) Proper cooking makes a big difference, as well.

I know many of the grassfed advocates, like Mercola, say a short finishing period on grain is fine, and in many respects it probably is (yes, wild ruminants would eat small amounts of grain when the grass goes to seed), but there have been studies done that show even a short grain finishing (as in, intensive feeding of grain for a period of time) has a dramatic impact on certain nutrients in the meat, most especially CLA (which almost completely disappears) but also things like vit. E and omega-3s. In addition to the different nutrient profile of the feed itself (more omega-6s in grain than in grass, for instance), grain alters the environment in the rumen to the extent that the nutrient conversion done by the bacteria in the animal's digestive system is different. Certainly a grain-finished animal that has spent most of its life in a natural setting eating grass would be far, far healthier than feedlot beef, but IMO it's not on a par with grassfed, grass-finished beef. But, we do what we can with what's available to us, and if it's a good price for this animal, well then...
post #45 of 243

Happy Happy

Hello all, I am so happy there are some traditional food mamas on here , I didn't think any existed here and didn't even try searching...I'm glad you found me.
I'll tell you all a little about myself...My name is Stephanie, I'm 21 and married to my dh Nathan for almost 3 years. We have a 21 month old son and I'm about 6 mo. pregnant with our second child (don't know the sex, didn't have an ultrasound). I'm due May 1st. This baby is my experimento baby since I concieved him/her exactly one month after going the TF way. If any of you are familiar with The Weston A Price foundation (Sally Fallon is one of the founders), you may know that he recommended cod liver oil, lots of eggs, and raw milk products for pregnancy and nursing...well that's what I am doing with this pregnancy and I feel great (although I have gained about 5 ponds more than with my first, but it's okay since I am the type who loses weight very quickly while breastfeeding.)
I own Nourishing Traditions and use it for almost every meal, it's like my how-to manual. One big piece of advice I can give NT/TF mamas just starting out is to visit the WAPF website and look up your local chapter and contact them, I am a WAPF member and they were a big help to me. Most chapters already have a source of raw milk found, along with eggs, chicken and beef or lamb. A lot of the members produce their own food and are usually willing to sell it at a fair price or barter for it...for instance, my chapter leader raises her own pastured organic lamb but she hates baking, I bake 2 loaves of sprouted whole grain bread for her each week and she gives me lots of lamb...especially a lot of the bones and organs, since almost no one will buy them, not even any of the other chapter members. The fantastic thing about joining WAPF though is you are supporting local farmers and businesses and increasing local commerce which is exactly what we need to do to kick down the mega-food corporations and keep food production where it belongs...in the local community. If anyone is interested, here's the link...List Of WAPF Local Chapters.
I bake a lot and can give advice about baking the TF way if anyone needs help. For me personally, I have found I like hard white winter wheat the best and use it for both yeast breads and quick breads. My son loves the NT pancakes and I make them all ways...with spices, with berries, with carob chips, and dry them crispy (I use my excalibur food dehydrator, I bought it 5 years ago while going through one of those raw foody vegan fads:. I highly reccomend it, I have used it for everything from fruits and veggies to grains and nuts, and it works really well for making deer jerky) and make mini pizzas out of them, it's a very versatile recipe.
The following quote is from an article from the WAPF magazine called Wise Traditions, it's one of my favorite articles and easily relates my view on the way life should be and could be:

You have two cows, non-genetically manipulated and produced through natural breeding, who feed on fertile green pastures and produce delicious high-fat milk. They are cheerfully milked by your round-faced children having naturally straight teeth and wearing pure cotton clothes, colored with natural dyes and produced in the nearby town. The cows give birth to calves every year and soon you have a herd of 30 cows, all producing delicious healthy milk. Sam and Dave have retired and bring their grandchildren around to help with the milking.
Out-of-work orthodontists gather up the manure in the milking shed and distribute it on your pasture in which happy chickens run around, turning over cow paddies and eating bugs to produce nutrient-rich eggs. You make naturally yellow butter from the cream, and a delicious cheese. You feed the whey and skim milk to your small herd of hogs, which they thoughtfully turn into bacon and lard for cooking.
Reformed FDA officials help you make lacto-fermented juice from the fruit grown in your orchards and pickles and chutneys from your garden produce. All these products you provide in your on-farm store to your farm shareholders, many of whom are grateful survivors from the lowfat era. You make more money than you can possibly spend on yourselves and so donate to your town's schools, theatres, symphony orchestra and opera company. You also build a nice house on another part of your farm where another family lives, and you pay this family handsomely to help you on the farm. That allows you to take a big vacation twice a year and learn how people live in other parts of the world. Missionary groups teach raw milk economics to people living in other countries and every year two foreign exchange students come to help out on the farm.
You have two. . . hundred thousand farms, all producing raw milk products and providing them in on-farm stores or by home delivery. These farms create an explosion of prosperity on the local level. Small towns revive and along with them, small businesses. Every town produces a distinctive lacto-fermented soft drink and every town supports several great restaurants. Fast food places transfer into local hands; new owners cook the french fries in tallow or lard. Unemployment disappears and everybody makes a decent wage. No one uses pesticides on their farms so the chemical companies close down that part of their operation. Many corporate employees are freed up from the system and find better pay and more fulfilling work with local businesses or on farms. It will become more profitable to put land just outside cities and towns into dairy farms than houses. Towns and cities will grow while urban sprawl will give way to green spaces. Wealthy farmers and wealthy small businessmen put their money in local credit unions; the power of international banks wanes, and so does their influence in Washington. This new wealth is real, so there is no need to wage war any longer to keep the economy afloat. The health crisis resolves; inner city hospitals are torn down and replaced with inner city dairy farms, supplying fresh milk to inner city families. School lunch programs feature raw milk and products of local farms. Because the children are eating real food, their brains get wired properly; they are filled with curiosity and learn easily; teaching becomes a joyous profession once again. Happy, well nourished children contribute to an artistic flowering—music, painting, literature, dance and the dramatic arts flourish.
You have two. . . hundred million people who drink raw milk. And all of them live happily ever after.

For the rest of the article, click here...The Politics and Economics of Food
post #46 of 243
Welcome civmom511. You'll find a lot of die-hard WAPF groupies around here. I found the traditional foods movement in the process of trying to fix the underlying cause of my PPD. There's lots of baking talk in this whole forum -- it sounds like you'll have lots to contribute. We don't eat grains here. I am discovering, finally, that I need to cut them out. It's hard to imagine a life without bread, but I would rather function well.

On gun control, this really isn't an appropriate place for it so it may get moved elsewhere. But for my part, it sounds like both docs and guns kill people. It's a fallacy to claim that because there are more physician-related deaths that gun deaths don't matter. Around here we are planning on pulling out a pellet gun of my grandpa's to scare off a passle of racoons. A pellet gun will do just fine. I don't think we are going to need a semi-automatic for the job.
post #47 of 243
Its great to see so many new people on the boards. We're back on the NT track here and I'm proud to announce that I am CAFFEINE FREE!!!! Finaly, I stopped over 2 weeks ago and haven't looked back. I've been taking a few superfood supplements to help me during the transition, some liver tablets, bee pollen, chlorella & black currant oil in addition to my cod liver oil.

I'm been making lots of lacto fermented goodies and our digestion is going much more smoothly in the house. I've been especially pleased with the fermented bean dip, so yummy.

As far as the off topic discussion on gun control this really isn't the place, I think there a politics forum for things like that. Living in NYC I certainly am not worried about the accidental gun deaths rather the intentional ones. I come here for support of my diet beliefs and to feel welcome by other moms with similiar interests, not to discuss divisive issues such as gun control.
post #48 of 243
Thread Starter 
Definately not interested in a gun discussion of any kind. Sorry.

So my crispy pancakes when really well. I seasoned them with coriander and cumin and then made a tzatiki using cilantro, lemon and garlic and gold cayenne. !!!!

Have a great day all!
post #49 of 243
hrheka! caffeine-free, woo hoo! That is great news!

Welcome to all the new mamas!
post #50 of 243
Most of you ladies probably already know about this, but for those new to NT, I wanted to post this link to www.localharvest.org . There you can find local sources of grass fed meat, free range eggs, and organic produce. Just type your zip and you're in business. Another good resource is www.eatwild.com . Also, www.fourfoldhealing.com has a data base for finding locally produced grass fed meat, poultry, and eggs.

I also wanted to comment on the difficulty of changing from a largely lower fat veggie based diet to NT. When I first started eating more optimal ammounts of fat, it literally scared me even though I knew in my mind that it was good for me. There's a really good section of the weston price websight that deals with making the transition. I really found it very helpful. www.westonaprice.org/transition/transition.html
post #51 of 243
Hi there everyone, just wondering what to do if there are no resources for raw milk near you? I have been making my own yogurt, and using a local dairy, but it is pasturized & homogenized. There is a source for raw goat milk not too far from us, and I made yogurt once from it, but our family was not very fond of the taste. What kind of milk should you make your cultured products out of? Kind of new to all of this, my husband & I were vegan for 6 years, started consuming organic dairy products & eggs when I was pregnant.

post #52 of 243
Welcome Civmom511,

Lots of bakers around these boards! NT, Veg*n, and Omni's. Glad you found us!

While your gun 'joke' post did NOT offend me in the slightest (I'm pretty hard to offend), they will probably move that to the politics or talk amongst ourselves forum, since they like to keep all the pegs in the right holes around here. hehe

However I'm one of those that agree, that people kill people, not guns. And there are just too many guns out there already in the wrong hands, for me not to have one JIC I need to defend myself. So I can appreciate the humor in your story.

I also think the peoples of a nation give up more than they realize once they turn all the power over to a government for 'protecting us' for our own good or not. I think if NO civilians had guns, then we'd not have some of the freedoms we have now.

Besides I used to work at a gun shop and pistol range and OMG it's scary when an 18 year old girl (at the time) can 'out shoot' (target practice) the middle aged men carrying them for security jobs and most of the men on the police force... I used to think, D***, these are the 'men' supposed to protect me in a time of need??

So I learned how to properly care for one and practice hard core 'gun safety' for storage/use at a relatively early age.

MMmm, I don't think I could shoot at a racoon or squirrel (no matter what pests they can be, though I can understand if you are protecting crops of food your family needs...still hard to think about that, since they are just foraging for food for survival with no malicious intent) and yet I would have no second thought/issue with guns (when used and kept for personal defense) or if you need to use one for personal safety. I definitely would have no problem using one to protect my family if some wacko was trying to break in my house and harm me or the kids...

But that's so off topic. Welcome again, and a question for you. Have you ever made yogurt with rice milk, not soy or dairy milks?
post #53 of 243
attatchedmama, I know it is hard to get used to the taste of goat's milk, but you do eventually! Actually though, I did make kefir from it by fermenting with the grains in it for 24 hours, then leaving it out one more day without the grains and I did not taste the goaty taste at all. The freshness makes a difference too.

civmom, welcome! I'd love to hear how you do your sprouted grain bread. I've been experimenting lately with sprouted wheat so more knowledge would be great.

And yay for hrheka!! That is so awesome that you are off the caffeine! It sounds like you are adding great stuff to your diet.

I'm still trying to get the sourdough thing down. But it is fun experimenting trying to get it right.

How is the fish and veggies going, Amanda? Do you take a B-vitamin or have a food source that you rely on? I've been thinking I need more B-vitamins in my diet lately. Sally mentions a certain brand of brewers yeast in her book, I'm not sure though. I was reading a book and all of the bad problems and symptoms it listed for a lack of b-vitamins I have had throughout my life, it seems.
post #54 of 243

So happy to have found this board!

OMGoodness! I started out researching the dental archives, found my way into the food allergies thread, then into the probiotics thread, and now here! Such a wealth of great information!

I obtained my copy of NT about 3 weeks ago, and LOVE it! I mean, it's fascinating!!!

I do have a question for those of you who are so experienced with this. My DD has severe milk allergies, but I'd like to soak my grains. I have no problem using vinegar in most things. However, we like oatmeal for breakfast around here. I tried using the vinegar for soaking, and the oatmeal tasted really AWFUL!!

I'm supposing that the "fermentation" part of the soaking is the important part, right? I mean, would it do any good to soak it overnight in salted water?

Also, I heard mention of fruit juice kefir? Would this be an appropriate substitute for vinegar or lemon juice for the oatmeal soaking?

Also, I bought some oat groats. If I sprout those, would that be as good?

Oh, and I also wanted to reply about the grass fed beef question. I have been eating grass fed beef for about 4 months now. It's 100% grass finished - no grains at all. I must say - I don't like the flavor very much - very gamey. For my first "freezerful," I ordered a variety of meats and steaks. This time around, I ordered ONLY ground beef and roasts that I can do in the crock pot - easily flavored stuff.

Well, thanks for any advice about the oatmeal!
post #55 of 243

Good Morning

Xenabyte-I've never made yogurt from rice milk, but I have made it a lot with raw cow's milk, I think it could work but you would probably have to start completely from scratch. Is it commercial rice milk that you are wanting to use? I don't think it would work with commercial milk, it's probably way to watered down and hasn't been prepared properly. If I was going to attempt this, and I am no expert now, I would follow the NT recipe for rice milk and maybe use half the water...4c. instead of the 8 that it calls for. I would use less water so maybe you would end up with a thicker drink and then let it ferment like the recipe says, it could thicken enough to be like yogurt, but that would be the difficult part because rice doesn't have much fat and it's the fat in dairy and soy (plus some added thickners in the soy yogurts and low fat, fat free dairy ones) that make it thick and creamy. You could use arrowroot powder, but then you would have to heat up the rice milk to thicken it using the arrowroot and then culture it because you wouldn't want to add the arrowroot after culturing because that would negate the benifits of making the rice milk yogurt in the first place. But then again, you could forget about the ricemilk yogurt all together, the rice milk in NT is fermented...so, it's practically like rice milk yogurt, just not thick. The recipe for almond milk is on the same page, it could work with almond milk, almonds definitely have more fat than rice. This is just what I would try, but I can't gurantee any of it will work. I'm glad to hear you liked my little pro-gun piece, I don't mind that it was moved...I just put it up there for the people that might appreciate it, it's just become so non-PC to own a gun that it makes me sick. I know how to shoot and I am glad, if crazy whacko criminal can own one and shoot me then I need to own one to protect me and my own. My husband and I bought each other his and hers derringers for Christmas and as soon as we have some extra money were going to apply for a our concealed weapons license (which is soooo unconstitutional by the way, but I live in stupid commie maryland for right now...we're 3/4 the way saved up for a down payment on a house not in maryland and hopefully moving soon...If anyone is thinking of moving here, don't do it, you will hate it and regret it) For the past two years my husband and I have been deer-hunting together and I bagged my first buck just this past fall (and I was even 4 months pregnant, I was so proud). We have a freezer full of deer, and it really is cool to have access to a whole animal for your cooking needs, I can use things like heart meat mixed with ground muscle and make delicious burgers or actually use things like antlers and hoofs to make really good venison stock. I can't wait till spring so we can start fishing again and crabbing, the good fishing and crabs is the only good thing about living in maryland.

Tweetybirds2-The way I make sprouted whole grain bread is pretty easy. I have a toddler running around, and a semi-homestead farm and a husband to take care of so I don't normally go for the complicated stuff. I buy my grain in 50 lb. bags from a co-op in delaware, I buy only the hard white winter wheat since it looks and bakes up almost like white flour but it tastes better and is better for you than white flour. I sprout the wheat using the methods outlined in NT pg 112, I will ususally sprout a whole lot at once and then dry them all out in the dehydrator (when completely dry, they store for a few months I think, although I have only stored them as long as one month in a cool dry place or you could use the fridge if you have enough room) and grind the flour as I need it. I don't use any special kind of recipe, just your normal bread recipe, using honey as the sweetner and butter as the fat and I will sometimes add a 1/2 to 1 tsp. baking soda along with the yeast just to give it a little extra oomph! so it rises better. If you follow a regular bread recipe with sprouted whole grain flour, you may need extra water as it seems to soak up more, just play with it until you get the dough feeling like it should...I also recommend kneading it for at least 10 minutes as it's harder to get the gluten going in whole wheat flours. You could just use a bread machine too, I do that sometimes, I follow the recipe for whole wheat bread that comes with the machine, making my own substitutions. That's pretty much it, if you want to know anything else just ask me. I'm thinking about making some sourdough starter and trying that out...do you use any of the NT recipes? Is it pretty easy and do they work?

Pilgrim- Oat groats would work, you can sprout them and then let them soak in plain water to soften them up and then cook them but they might be a bit chewy. If you have a grain grinder, you could sprout a bunch of groats and dry them and then crack into smaller bits, or roll them if you have a roller, using the grinder. You could also just try to puree the sprouted softened groats in a food processor before cooking...it might work, I don't know. Sprouting the groats does get rid of the phytates but you still might not be able to get an end product that is like regular oatmeal. We eat fermented oatmeal around here and the taste did take a little getting used to at first, but now I really like it. It helps to add plenty of butter or cream, and some raw honey or banana if you like it sweet...but the butter or cream, I think, helps to mask the somewhat sour taste, but now that I am used to sour tastes (sour tastes are not very prevelant in our western culture, so most people do find it somewhat unappealing)...from using other fermented foods and cultured dairy, I think it tastes good, so it may be a matter of allowing your tastebuds to adjust. Fruit juice kefir might work as long as the cultures are alive, any of the fermented beverages from NT could in theory be used as a starter culture. I hope this helps.
post #56 of 243

non-dairy oatmeal soaking

did you try lemon juice?

Barring that, just soak it overnight in a warm place to start natural fermentation, like someplace you would incubate yogurt (in the oven with a pilot light, on a warming tray, etc). We have a fermenting box that DH rigged up and just use that without any acid.
post #57 of 243
Originally Posted by toraji
did you try lemon juice?

Barring that, just soak it overnight in a warm place to start natural fermentation, like someplace you would incubate yogurt (in the oven with a pilot light, on a warming tray, etc). We have a fermenting box that DH rigged up and just use that without any acid.


I've been meaning to ask you...so, erm...would you describe your ferment box or a rough idea how it's done/made. Is it just a wood box with a light bulb in it, or do you have temp regulation and a fan or...? It sounds so cool!

Also regarding the ferments...I hope when folks say they used vinegar and it tasted aweful, they used just a tiny amount, a tsp, of the vinegar, lemon, etc, to a few cups of water.....(just in case, hey, you never know)...

And I LOVE the idea of using my ginger water kefir to soak...mmm...I'd not thought of that! But it's got citric acid and lacto fermented stuff already in it...oh yea...
post #58 of 243
oops, duplicate post
post #59 of 243

Most oat groats will not sprout

Most oats on the market for human consumption have been steamed and roasted or toasted, even whole oat groats. Oats go rancid (oxidized fat) very quickly after the hulls are removed, and taste bitter if they aren't cooked just enough to neutralize enzymes in the bran. After this heat treatment (and sources vary, some say toasted, some say steamed and roasted), they're either sold whole or further processed into other forms. I think there are sources for truly raw oat groats (Google it), but you'll probably have to mail order, and it's likely that the brands in most stores have been heat treated. I put a link below that explains oat processing a little bit. Raw oats would have to be stored properly, sealed to reduce exposure to oxygen and kept cool (I certainly wouldn't buy them from a bulk bin), and kept in the freezer after the package is opened.

That's not to say you can't soak heat-treated whole oat groats in an acidic medium, then dry and use - they won't have the sprouting benefits (increased vitamins, for instance), but it will accomplish phytate reduction. I've done this for oatmeal cookies. I soak the whole groats in water with whey or kefir added, enough to cover all the grains, for about 12-24 hours. Then I drain, dry and flake them in the attachment for my grain mill, and use them like rolled oats. Makes great cookies! Combined with sprouted wheat flour, butter and Rapadura in a cookie recipe, you have yummy and healthy snacks.

oat processing: http://www.namamillers.org/prd_o_mill.html
post #60 of 243
AJP, thank you for the awesome oat soak info! I'd called 'Quaker oat' company and the guy on the phone told me that too..said that the shelf life was greatly extended, but if they didn't do that to it, it would go rancid pretty quickly. Too bad companies like that don't do a 'phytate reduction soak' then dry and roast/toast, flake for us!

I soaked some whole oat groats in pinapple juice'd water once (hoping to get the enzyme benefits of the pineapple too) then low heat dried, then flaked. I made 'granola' with it over very low heat and it was YUMMY!

I used to keep soaked to 'just sprouting' wheat berries, then dried and ground in the fridge..I've been out for a few...but I need to do another big batch, you are right, it makes for AWESOME cookies

I'm brewing some 'rice milk' vanilla yogurt atm, so in 3 hours I hope to have a confirmation if it's edible haha. If so, I"ll post the recipe for anyone wanting another dairy free way for getting their probiotics...
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