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resale on ebay - Page 8

post #141 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetapestry
Maybe you don't mean to sound so completely melodramatic and over the top, but I'm quite sure from my memory of the thread several months ago that the "diapering world" has NEVER been of one singular mind about this. I think that reasonable people can disagree about this subject and nobody needs to insinuate that the ethics of the community have gone to h#ll in a handbasket. Respectful disagreement is what makes this place great, and I tend to think that "pointing fingers" at people who disagree with you is in very bad form.

Perhaps someone can now invoke a customer related service issue so this thread can get pulled.

Karla
Karla, I love you. I mean really. I do. You are only the second person to ever make me laugh so hard I spit coke on my keyboard.
post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennisee
Wow, I could really go for a big Libertarian group hug right now.
consider yourself hugged
post #143 of 163
Hey there! I'd like a Libertarian hug from Terri, too.
post #144 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherTremblay
This thread has been an interesting read for me, although I must confess the information is not something that hasn't already passed through my mind - all the various viewpoints, and been discussed by wahms amongst themselves ad infinitum, as well as from the consumer point of view. Thanks, Julia, for opening up a thoughtful discussion, wherever it may have lead us all!

Here's my 2c, or 2.00, depending upon how lengthy my post gets, here.

From the wahm standpoint (or, should I say, from a wahm's standpoint, since I neither speak for other wahms, nor would I ever presume to do so).
You can speak for me anyday..........you are complete, concise, and to the point in your thoughts. I appreciate that I also happen to agree with your points.
post #145 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflymom
Hey there! I'd like a Libertarian hug from Terri, too.
teehee
we're coming out of the woodwork eh ladies
post #146 of 163
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with buying hyena diapers and then turning around and selling them for a profit, even though I personally have never done this. The wahm's who make them sure do need to raise their prices though! They could be making all that money. It isn't like anyone *needs* hyena diapers. There are plenty of great quality diapers out there for very reasonable prices, both wahm and mass produced if what you are really looking for is a diaper to put on your baby to hold poop and pee and not a fashion statement. I don't have any hyena diapers and we're doing just fine I think that the whole reason a particular diaper gets to "hyena" status is just because they are hard to get. Someone raves about it and then another person does and before you know it the wahm is swamped with orders. People like to have things that are hard to get and that everyone else wants. Hyena diapers change a lot over the years. Back when sugarpeas were super hard to get they were all anyone could talk about. Now it's other dipes like El Bees. In the 4 years I have been cding there have been a lot of different "hot" diapers. I mean, it's not as if people are starving or anything. I just can't see getting all worked up and calling someone a bad person with no morals over expensive diapers:LOL
post #147 of 163
Wow, I leave you guys alone for a few days and look what happens! :LOL

Here's my $.02:
Seeing as how we like to think of this as a community, it's nice when people offer they're used items on the TP for a reasonable price, and a little rude when they try to scalp on the TP. But, there is no obligation to be nice and offer things on the TP or to buy an item being scalped. Everyone can make there own decisions.

eBay is an entirely different creature, however. A seller cannot determine what any particular item will go for. (I for instance sold a Luxe diaper that just wasn't working for us (used about 3x, no stains, excellent condition) for half what I paid new.) If someone can get $70 or $700 for an Elbee, then go for it. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

Do I think it's yucky when people purchase hard to get items just to turn around and list them on eBay? Yes. Do I think they're evil or unethical? No. That's just the way the world works.

I don't think people deserve to get more based on why they're selling. It's all about the market for the diapers. Supply and demand! The Fluffymail mommas and Laura of Elbee could probably charge lots more for their dipes. Sure, they'd probably sell fewer, but they'd still make money. Perhaps, they'd make even more money. The purpose of selling is to find the price point at which you can make the most money (price goes up, numbers go down/price goes down, numbers go up). So, who knows?

Now would it be nice, if these hyena diaper producers took notice of who frequently scalped diapers (not people who are selling them, because they didn't work or they need money or whatever reason... just scalpers) and created a no sell list? Sure, but that's not really their responsibility and just creates more work for the hard-working WAHMs. Especially, since they'd have to decide if each person's reason for selling the diaper was "valid." It's just not practical. Great idea though in theory.

So, we are left with the world as it is. We can choose to buy hyena diapers or not. There will always be other quality diapers available to purchase elsewhere. Just because I want a Volvo (which I can't afford) doesn't mean I get to have one. I have to be happy with my Honda. Same thing applies to diapers. Just because I want an ElBee (which I can't get my hands on) doesn't mean I get to have one. I must be satisfied with the rest of my diapers that work just fine.
post #148 of 163
Wowzers!!!!! It has taken me over 4 hours (between nursing, making lunch and playing with kids) to try to read through this thread. Quite unfortunately, I have had to skim through most of Angelica and Jessica's posts, but I plan on reading them in entirety tonight when the kids are asleep. So incredibly thought provoking!
In general, I agree with Angelica. I am a business owner. In addition to my diapers, I own two IRL businesses. There are ideals in business, and there are realities, sometimes the two mesh, sometimes not. I am afraid I do not have time to type out a well versed post, I wish I did.
Heather, I appreciate your post as well, thank you for writing it.
In general, I agree that once a person has purchased an item, it is their property to do with as they please. Who am I to tell someone otherwise?
I wish I had more time to write today, but my time is up. Maybe I can come back tonight.
post #149 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennisee
I think that this all boils down to one basic thing--Socialists and Libertarians will never agree. No matter how much we go round and round, our core beliefs are just flat-out different.
On one level, I agree. There are some pretty different core beliefs here. However, that does not discourage dialogue for me. Since I am really not satisfied with either position, I keep thinking that there might be a new sythesis possible here, a new way of thinking about these sorts of questions.

What it really boils down to for me is that fact that I am suspicious of any theory that claims to have solved the problem or answered the question definitively for all time. The older I get, and the more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know. Part of the criticism of my sort of contextual and complicated ethics is that it is so messy and indeterminate, and you always have to keep thinking. Well, that's just what I like best about it. I am much more comfortable with the grey area than I am with hard and fast principles. I think a little cognitive dissonance is enlightening and really the only way to see some sorts of oppression.
post #150 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobiemama
Seems to me you guys are putting WAY too much thought into something petty.....
Yep. The only person who should be bothered is the person paying the credit card bill. It's a person's free will to spend their money however they like in this country.
post #151 of 163
I followed this thread yesterday until Pamela Anderson showed up, then just ran across it again. like boobiemama said, I thought it was just too much energy spent on this topic. but then, angelica, wow! great posts! ITA with you and others.

and as I've said before, jamie, you crack me up!

I'm in for the libertarian group hug too.
post #152 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Gosh- I am simply not smart enough to keep up with this thread!
:LOL me either.
post #153 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessicaSAR
On one level, I agree. There are some pretty different core beliefs here. However, that does not discourage dialogue for me. Since I am really not satisfied with either position, I keep thinking that there might be a new sythesis possible here, a new way of thinking about these sorts of questions.

What it really boils down to for me is that fact that I am suspicious of any theory that claims to have solved the problem or answered the question definitively for all time. The older I get, and the more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know. Part of the criticism of my sort of contextual and complicated ethics is that it is so messy and indeterminate, and you always have to keep thinking. Well, that's just what I like best about it. I am much more comfortable with the grey area than I am with hard and fast principles. I think a little cognitive dissonance is enlightening and really the only way to see some sorts of oppression.
Now once again you've said it better than I could. I also enjoy the dialogue and I'm not particularly happy w/ any of the different sides. I punt into deontological ethics b/c I'm definitely unhappy w/ pronouncements of apriori and/or ontological "ethics."

Even those claiming to love capitalist-type ideologies are really talking about rule-bound "capitalism." Otherwise you'd think what Enron did is perfectly legitimate, that unfettered monopolies are acceptable and that junk bond trading is great. There are laws against corrupt levels of greed that pure capitalism would just have to put up with. But the concept of "corrupt" only comes up b/c the community agrees that unfettered capitalism goes awry much too easily.

Is that beyond the scope of a simple diapering discussion of re-selling things on ebay? Of course. But a number of the responses here are rather naive in their portrayals of capitalism-- as if its an ethical system of god-given, natural or human rights. Capitalism is NOT an ethical system, although its definitely got plenty of people who justify the economics w/ philosophical pronouncements. I don't happen to buy lots of them.

I believe in tax codes which help to redistribute money, for instance. I believe in community members helping each other. And I'm perfectly confident that many of the proponents of capitalism (here and elsewhere) are deeply involved in charitable good works and volunteerism. Thats great, and definitely softens the blow of the ugly side of capitalism.

Put another way, Rawls has an idea that if we were building a community and you didn't know which job you would have...the income disparity between the jobs would not be nearly as great as turns out in real life. The garbage collector would not be so disdained in economic terms b/c if you don't know if you'll be the garbage collector or the dentist, you're more likely to make their incomes more equal. I do think this plays into diapers as well, given that the sewing WAHMs don't really earn a proper working wage (most of them don't seem to anyway). This is true of most traditionally-female jobs. That smacks of a generic oppression against the roles of women in our society. Thats perfectly acceptable in the capitalist scheme. Its not acceptable in mine. How do I fight it? Well, I can buy "small"-- I can support WAHMs instead of Proctor and Gamble. I can be part of a small enclave of a special economy instead of the generic disposible economy.

Yes, our enclave has many elements of capitalism. It'd be silly to claim or hope otherwise. But its also a small sub-economy with its own communitarian ethics. And the growing pains of the community are fully evidenced in the above debate.

Anyway, I think I'm basically following Jessica's line of thinking and really appreciate the thoughts behind her posts. I appreciate Angelica's side too, I just don't lean that way so much.

Can I still join in the group hug?
post #154 of 163
I was beginning to feel a little left out of the hugging here. I might have to beg into the libertarian group hug too. There don't seem to be enough old hippies here to form a group.
post #155 of 163
Virg and Jessica, can I get in on your hug?
post #156 of 163
Quote:
I'd like a Libertarian hug from Terri, too.


This thread has really evolved to be very interesting. I've enjoyed reading it.

It's interesting how understood "rules" or Mores tend to be more important than the written ones. That's such a great thing about communities.

Still on the subject of reselling diapers....

When a person scalps them, it irritates me. This is from the consumers point of view. From a business point of view.... it's not even my business.

OTOH, who has time to determine who is buying and reselling because it didn't work out for them and who is scalping hyena products? Certainly not me. We all have children to take care of or prepare for.

Personally, I am happy that people are willing to pay $70 for a diaper. I'm happy that people love Fuzbaby and will pay $$ for those too. I think it sets a standard in the cloth diapering community.... a standard that makes it so that wahms get paid for their time and effort. I think it puts women owned businesses on a new level. This is what we need to do... we need to work towards small businesses succeeding.

If people are always out for the cheapest diapers and the greatest deals, they are not going to be able to support the small guy. They will need to buy manufactured diapers. But, if people continue to appreciate the finer qualities of handmade items in unique designes, they will continue to seek out the small wahms to purchase from, and this will help the small guys succeed. All of us women have the power to change society, and the power to support the small guys. If it means we spend a little more, that is worth it to me. If it means that some people pay $20 for a diaper and turn around and sell it for $70 on ebay... that is worth it to me.

Teri
post #157 of 163
Thread Starter 
: if there's any hugging room left, I sure could use in.
post #158 of 163
I find Teri's perspective very interesting precisely because it is not based entirely on a libertarian, "we are free/have the right to do whatever we want with our money" approach. Rather, she has offered a rationale for selling high that is also justified by the positive consequences of doing so. I am actually pretty sympathetic to this argument. If I could be convinced that selling hyena diapers to the highest bidder would indeed raise the profile of small wahm made items thereby mitigating gender based income inequality, and enouraging small,local economies, and that these benefits outweigh the potentially harmful consequence of promoting an attitude of materialism and consumerism then I might be willing to keep my diapproving mouth shut. I am not yet convinced, but I am open to the possibility.
post #159 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by averymybaby
: if there's any hugging room left, I sure could use in.
I think this thread has been fun, and you are welcome in any hug I'm in!
post #160 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlfactory
You can speak for me anyday..........you are complete, concise, and to the point in your thoughts. I appreciate that I also happen to agree with your points.
Ooh, I've been validated! :LOL Now I'm in on the group hug, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessicaSAR
If I could be convinced that selling hyena diapers to the highest bidder would indeed raise the profile of small wahm made items thereby mitigating gender based income inequality, and enouraging small,local economies...
Now, that's exactly the sort of idea I'm talking about. Nicely put!
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