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resale on ebay - Page 5

post #81 of 163
Julia- I think you initiated an interesting discussion and it is quite unfortunate that it took on such a personal twist. It's not your fault, but it's where the thread has gone.
post #82 of 163
I think it's fine to sell dipes on ebay -- as has been said many times, no one (and this is not directed to anyone in particular) is *entitled* to a stash of their favorite dipes at any price.

Also wanted to add that www.lucyshopechest.com makes a very nice serged AIO, she does have windpro, and there's no waiting list.
post #83 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lori810
Julia- I think you initiated an interesting discussion and it is quite unfortunate that it took on such a personal twist. It's not your fault, but it's where the thread has gone.

post #84 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lori810
And FTR, my child had an absolutely awful rash for about 5-6 months. I know the agony. We saw about 6 docs, changed our diets dramatically, and dealt with trying a million kinds of diapers. I know how tough it is. But that doesn't mean that if XYZ diaper is the only one that worked, I'd expect others' selling practices to be dictated by my situation.
what was it? any advice? DS has had his rash for almost 6 months, look at my rash thread, is that it?????
post #85 of 163
This thread has been an interesting read for me, although I must confess the information is not something that hasn't already passed through my mind - all the various viewpoints, and been discussed by wahms amongst themselves ad infinitum, as well as from the consumer point of view. Thanks, Julia, for opening up a thoughtful discussion, wherever it may have lead us all!

Here's my 2c, or 2.00, depending upon how lengthy my post gets, here.

From the wahm standpoint (or, should I say, from a wahm's standpoint, since I neither speak for other wahms, nor would I ever presume to do so).

1. If I make a diaper or knit item, or a left-handed thingamabob, and someone buys it from me and re-sells it immediately on eBay at twice the price or more:

(a) I would immediately have a passing emotional reaction that 'hey, that wasn't fair', which is really just evidence that I have felt I missed an opportunity to improve my own financial situation, from the work I did myself; I have to remember that it's a business I run in a capitalist market, not a personal service in a commune.

(b) I would then consider raising my own prices, or selling a few unique items myself on eBay to see if I can get the same fortunate response; what will the market bear?

(c) I would endeavor to remember that, for me, it's none of my d*** business what people do with my diapers, etc. once they purchase them. Ditto for if I give away a freebie item, a diaper fairy item, etc. Whatever my immediate emotional response may be (and since I am human, it is unavoidable), it boils down to the fact that someone else has taken the chance to make a profit for themselves for whatever reason, and that's what I do every day (or try to) while running my own business. It's not an ethical crime for me to want to profit from my work to care for my family, that's a certainty in my mind.


Although some may feel there are ethical violations involved in selling diapers for more than they purchased them originally, everyone determines their own personal ethics, and I do not determine others' ethics, nor do I feel that they are in any way violating me, since it's a waste of my time, and I have precious little to waste as it is, as busy as I am. I don't know (and it's none of my business) how much help you give to the needy, if you are the needy, or if you have lots of 'hyena' diapers, or just wraps and prefolds and need money to re-roof your house after a hurricane hits, or if you just like to buy low and sell high to save for your vacation next year... in other words, more power to you, whoever you may be!

I run a business, and not a communal service of any kind, and there are always knocks to be taken when I don't present myself in the best light possible publicly, but this does NOT mean that I cannot raise (or lower) a price for an item depending upon supply and demand, costs of materials and time, etc., etc.

I may run the risk of having publicly posted threads in the vein of 'Wow, can you believe how much so-and-so charged for that?!', with possible responses of 'Good for her!' or 'What is the cloth diapering wahm community coming to?!'.

Regardless of this, either way, I have a demand level and a supply level that varies from year to year, season to season, and item to item. I wouldn't be a very savvy businesswoman if I didn't recognize that it's not about personal feelings, with the exception of the emotional gratification customers get from receiving an item they like and can use -- but my emotions must remain in check, if I am to have a successful business.

Besides, any thread that goes into that great a discussion about a particular wahm is just good free advertising, IMO. I know a number of wahms who feel it is sometimes worth raising prices, considering what the market will bear (and who doesn't want to get paid what their time is really worth; and women do need to demand their worth, and not just from men).

Okay, enough out of me.
post #86 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lori810
I wouldn't say you are being judged because your child gets a rash. But if you expect the world to come to a halt and provide you with a lovely stash of brand new FCB at a cheap price, ain't gonna happen. If the price is driven up by demand, I guess you'd better save up and get in line if you MUST have them. But as others have said before me, I don't buy it. Make your own, use organic prefolds and change every 10 min, have a seamstress make some custom-made for you, etc. Of course there are other options. FCB hasn't been around THAT long, imagine what people did before!

And FTR, my child had an absolutely awful rash for about 5-6 months. I know the agony. We saw about 6 docs, changed our diets dramatically, and dealt with trying a million kinds of diapers. I know how tough it is. But that doesn't mean that if XYZ diaper is the only one that worked, I'd expect others' selling practices to be dictated by my situation.

WHOAAAA! I think you are totally mistaken me. Please read my initial thread. I SAID...I will pay whatever price I CAN to get the diapers that fit my son correctly and that I found nothing wrong with ebay and high prices of diapers on ebay for resale. Im sorry Momma, but I never ever said people shouldnt sell things on ebay b/c theyll sell for more than the WAHM makes them for. If I have to pay 50 bucks to get my son nearly the only AIO that works for him, so be it! Here is part of my initial thread:

If people want to pay $80 for the diaper, fine. Who cares??? While this item may be luxury, I truly do NEED the luxury item and Ill find a way to get it whether it be purchasing new or used for whatever price I want to pay.

I also could just care less about people selling on ebay and I have to agree that Ive never done it before even when I needed the money for whatever reason b/c I was afraid of being reemed on.
post #87 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsayloo2020
WHOAAAA! I think you are totally mistaken me. Please read my initial thread. I SAID...I will pay whatever price I CAN to get the diapers that fit my son correctly and that I found nothing wrong with ebay and high prices of diapers on ebay for resale. Im sorry Momma, but I never ever said people shouldnt sell things on ebay b/c theyll sell for more than the WAHM makes them for. If I have to pay 50 bucks to get my son nearly the only AIO that works for him, so be it! Here is part of my initial thread:

If people want to pay $80 for the diaper, fine. Who cares??? While this item may be luxury, I truly do NEED the luxury item and Ill find a way to get it whether it be purchasing new or used for whatever price I want to pay.

I also could just care less about people selling on ebay and I have to agree that Ive never done it before even when I needed the money for whatever reason b/c I was afraid of being reemed on.
Oh, OK, my mistake. So why did you think you were being judged? Because you paid a lot? I agree then, people shouldn't judge if someone wants to spend a boatload on a diaper, it's their choice. Sorry I misunderstood!
post #88 of 163
Holy Tattoos! I guess the holidays and goodwill are over!?!

I think I'm one of the biggest lurkers here at MDC, and I have to say... this thread had more ups and downs than me and Tommy Lee.

Let's all try to remember, we're a community. We're a haven away from the harsh back biting and paparazzi of the outside world. Please, let's make peace with one another. Can we just agree to disagree and move on?

I wish you all peace.
post #89 of 163
Roflmao!!!
post #90 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamela Anderson
Holy Tattoos! I guess the holidays and goodwill are over!?!

I think I'm one of the biggest lurkers here at MDC, and I have to say... this thread had more ups and downs than me and Tommy Lee.

Let's all try to remember, we're a community. We're a haven away from the harsh back biting and paparazzi of the outside world. Please, let's make peace with one another. Can we just agree to disagree and move on?

I wish you all peace.

: Pamela, it's about time you made another appearance!

I wanted to say to the WAHMs who took the time to chime in here, too. It's really helped me see the varied perspectives!
post #91 of 163
You can always count on Claire to bring a smile to your face.
post #92 of 163
Hey! My boobs are droopy and real! When I nak, Cicely is sitting on the floor.

So... no Pam Anderson here!
post #93 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark
Hey! My boobs are droopy and real! When I nak, Cicely is sitting on the floor.

So... no Pam Anderson here!

: now *that's* an image. :LOL
post #94 of 163
:LOL You gals! ok... I'll show you mine if you show me yours!!!

MINE
post #95 of 163
Yeah! Mamas are smiling! Oh......the thread was scarying me at first!

My two cents........................each mama has to do what is right for her and her family. I don't own hyena items really, but I did purchase/trade for certain dipes due to their reputation and resell value. If I were a seller of dipes and people were bidding high on them, I would be honored. And yes I would probably raise my prices.

I do think it is kind of a silly thing for us to all be debating with such passion. This kind of energy and passion may be better used over in the Activism Forum.
post #96 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark
Hey! My boobs are droopy and real! When I nak, Cicely is sitting on the floor.

So... no Pam Anderson here!
:
post #97 of 163
Well, Claire, you are mentioned in Pam's public profile, so you are claiming NO connection?

When talking about pricing and ethics we need to distinguish between necessity items and luxury items. Necessity items are needed for sustaining life (and health = primary needs) while luxury items are wanted to fulfill other needs after an individuals basic needs are met. There can never be anything unethical about selling a luxury item at market prices. (Ethics come into play only when pricing necessity items, and then too only in rare ‘special cases’.) There can never be anything unethical about selling a gourmet meal for $60 if there is a fast food place and grocery store next doors. Sure many of us might want to have same champagne and caviar occasionally, but it is not necessary to our survival or health. There can never be anything unethical to sell a Mercedes for $70,000 because a car is not a necessity item and even if it would be there are viable options at the Honda dealership for less than $20,000 (not to talk about the second hand market).

A hand made cloth diaper with a strong brand and a market value of over $70 is a luxury item. Nobody’s life or health is dependent on it. There is a plethora of more affordable options on the market. There can never be anything unethical about selling a hand made cloth diaper on a free market for any price; whether the price a voluntary buyer is paying for it is $70 or $700 or $7000. Period.

Ethics and market pricing can only come into conflict when someone’s life and health is in danger. It is unethical of me not to give a glass of water from my well in the middle of a dessert to a man dying of thirst even if he would not have the 50 cents that might be the correct market price for it. As a human being it is unethical for me to watch him die.
When it comes to pricing, ethics apply directly only to necessity items, which cloth diaper are not, no matter how much you would prefer one brand over another.

So, “Is it ethical to sell diapers for more than the primary producer asks for a new one?”
Of course it is. Either the producer sells it under fair market value (= what people would be buying them for and thus performs an act of charity) or the reseller has contributed to marketing and made it available to customers who were not connected to the primary producers first hand market and has thus added value to the whole process. No losers, only winners. If the seller wouldn’t have put the item on sale in the first place, nobody would have gotten it. Since she did the buyer who voluntarily paid $70 obviously thought she was better off doing this, the seller is better of since she voluntarily put it for sale AND the primary producer is better off thanks to, among other things, proved secondary market for her products à increases primary demand à a given benchmark for adjusting the primary market prices (which she could decide not to do and this could yet benefit her in another form discussed later).

If somebody claims that the secondary seller who has bought for $20 and now sells for $70 should sell for less than the market value (= voluntary bids) she claims in fact in economic terms that the seller is obliged to do an act of charity equal to the difference of the fair market value and the lower price, in this case $50. Now, this somebody needs to make her case. Why is the seller obliged to this act of charity? Because there is scarcity in this world? Because not everybody gets all luxury items they want? This line of thought boils down to a communist ideology where everybody is obliged to do give what they have or can produce according to ability and everybody is entitled to the same material goods (and eventually essentially nobody gets anything).

To make her case, this somebody would need to show that a specific person is in life or health threatening danger and that this charity of $50 would save her AND that out of the 6.7 billion people on this planet the seller is among those who are morally obliged to save her (since she has the means and the object of charity is in such close proximity to her that the moral obligations falls on her based on community or family ties rather than on some closer family or community member to the person in need.)

It should be clear that no such moral obligation to charity can be proven in this case.

To me it is obvious that people making arguments based on ‘morals’ in this case subconsciously think that if the seller would be willing to sell for less than $70, lets say $35, they themselves would snatch the luxury item at hand. They forget that at this price there would be more willing buyers than at the price of $70 where we in our example had only one buyer, the highest bidder. Who gets too decide which one of these, lets say 15 persons, who would be willing to pay $35 gets the item? Some sort of lottery? The losers would be the person who wanted the diaper for $70, if the buyer who was only willing to pay $40 gets it for $35, as well as the seller who got $35 for the diaper who had a buyer at $70. We would have a $5 winner, $35 looser and the person who wanted the item most (in dollar terms) didn’t even get it.

The free market is, has always been and will always bee the most efficient and just distribution system for luxury items, such as hand made cloth diapers.

It is however noteworthy that the sellers, both the primary producer and the secondhand seller, have the opportunity to sell their diapers a below market values, thus performing acts of charity. Acts of charity can substantially raise an individuals standing in a community. We could have a situation where the second hand market price for a product could be $70 even in the longer term (if supply in the second hand market would not catch up to demand) while the primary market price would be $20. In a while it would be generally known that the primary producer constantly performs an act of charity equal to giving away $50 when she sells an item (assuming that items are constantly selling at $70 in the secondary market) and she could benefit through a higher social standing in her community. It of course depends largely how she chooses to allocate these free $50 pieces of cloth (= who gets to buy in the primary market when she is flooded with orders since ‘everybody knows’ the diapers are worth $70 on eBay).

It seems to me that there are some primary producers in the cloth diaper market selling their products at below market values, thus performing acts of charity and benefiting in social standing (aka reputation). This does not however lead to a moral obligation to anybody else to sell below market prices.

From a potential buyers viewpoint (who is willing to pay only $35 for a diaper) it might be a viable strategy to try to induce guilt in those operating in a voluntary free market by claiming that there is something unethical in their actions. If an obligation to charity can’t be proved these claims are unfounded. Since handmade cloth diapers are clearly luxury items I do not believe this can be done.

But Angelbee is right--I think I've spent too much energy on this topic. :
post #98 of 163
Here I am practicing attachment parenting with the Himba people.
A Picture from National Geographic

Seriously, isn't this a great picture! I love that she's working so hard, being close to her baby and not self conscious about the breasts that have nourished her children. And, they're known for their peace-making abilities while acknowledging that conflict is a natural part of being human. Pretty cool, huh?
post #99 of 163
Seems to me you guys are putting WAY too much thought into something petty.....
post #100 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark
Hey! My boobs are droopy and real! When I nak, Cicely is sitting on the floor.

So... no Pam Anderson here!
So glad to hear I'm not the only one...except in my case one side he sits on the floor, the other in my lap 'cuz after nursing 3 babes they are Soooo lop-sided!!! :LOL :
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