Yates verdict overturned - Page 2

[momsmyjob]

Originally Posted by hnybee

It is a sad situation no matter how you slice it. And to think what this mama has to deal with (guilt, judgement etc).

I am glad it is not in my hands to deal with. It's so hard because those poor children are dead and that is a fact. She had mental illness. I'm so glad it's not in my hands to determine what justice is.

I just pray those kids are in heaven and in peace now. I certainly hope the husband has to take some responsiblity for all of this. Has he had to face any consequences????

-Melissa

ITA! Her husband should have sought help for her.

[morgainesmama]

I read the story many moons ago. I won't go back and reread it because it lay heavy on my heart for a long, long while. This woman was being treated. If I remember correctly there were some glitches in her treatment. The day it happened she called her husband at the office 10 minutes after he'd left for work and said something like, "It's time, come home." And he hung up, called the police, and rushed home. The children were dead in their beds, as she'd drowned them one by one and then lay them out neatly.

I agree that this woman should be treated but I do not believe she belongs outside of locked doors. Anyone ill enough to be capable of this sort of crime needs to remain in treatment. Permanently, or in jail, in my small opinion. Because if she is released and ceases treatment, there is nothing to assure that her psychosis won't bring her to do this again. It would be easy to lose track of her once she was released; she could easily have another baby.

There are no easy answers about what to do with the mentally ill. It's seems cruel to lock them up, but many people should not be out unattended. Yet a "lock them all up" attitude will only lead to thoughtless institutionalization and abuse.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter.

[morgainesmama]

Well after I posted it nagged at me and I did a bit of research. I stand self-corrected ... here's one link that not only clearly lays out both where her husband was responsible but also her diagnosis of PPP.

http://www.therationalradical.com/ds...drea-yates.htm

[Electra375]

Originally Posted by alegna

Though her husband gives me the creeps.

-Angela

:LOL He gives me the creeps too. But I think his is partly responsible for his wifes actions.

He was on the news saying how she wasn't getting the mental help she needed in the jail facility she is currently in. The lawyers haven't made a motion to move her (last I heard), but that is what he would like to see -- her moved to an institution that could help her. The jail still hasn't gotten her meds right according to her ex-husband (yeah, he filed for a divorce and wants to re-marry and have children -- from his interview on the news).

I personally think he is guilty, although he was never on trial. It was clear to both him and his mother that Andrea wasn't right. What caused them to feel this way, we will likely never know, but they knew she wasn't mentally well. His mother was coming over and then he was leaving for work. This particular day she drowned her children, was when it was decided to give Andrea private time for 30 mintues between Rusty leaving for work and his mother coming in to help Andrea. Anyone else remember this???

I think she does belong in a mental institution and should not be allowed to live life outside the walls of confinement for what she has done regardless of her mental status at the time.

Over turning the verdict will hopefully help change the current treatment she is receiving. I don't think she should walk free for having killed her children in a moment of insanity. I don't personally think she was insane per se, I think she is very, very, very mentally ill. I get sick thinking about how she did it and I also know she had to be one strong woman to drown her older children. It was rumored that the older children were likely running from her and she tracked them down and drowned them. Sick, sick, sick... Imagine the terror those children felt before they died, the oldest was 7 (read the link below and learn that the oldest child was last and he lay in the tub w/ feces and vomit)! Look at your own children and imagine holding one down under the water in a bath tub... Think about why there was feces and vomit in the tub... How could any woman do this to her children unless she was mentally ill?

From the way Rusty was speaking of her condition, it didn't sound like she would ever be mentally right. And from the first articles out about the situation, it seemed she wasn't mentally right ever. Even if she came to the reality of what she had done, that alone would through any sane woman over the edge into a depressive state forever. He did say she was in the hospital recently for weight loss, her meds were screwed up and she wasn't eating. How about, she "woke-up" and learned of what she had done and wanted to die herself???

I don't know exactly what they have her drugged up on, but it would be just like the "system" to have her drugged up to not feel a thing and when she did begin to feel again they drugged her up some more to avoid depression.

http://www.dynomitejj.com/display_views.asp?id=26
An interesting view.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou.../andrea_yates/
and this is the story that captures the reality of the drownings.

Over turn the verdict, fine, but she still won't walk free. Just my thoughts and opinions here.

[darsmama]

I don't know who brought up the subject of 'letting her loose' but I don't think 99.9% of people out there (or even on this board) think that is something that should even be considered a possibility.

[mamamoo]

Originally Posted by saritabeth

I just cried when I saw the story....So tragic for everyone involved.

If people didn't let andrea Yeats down...her doctors, her husband, her community, maybe her children would still be alive today.

If andrea should go to jail, so should the rest of the people who ignored her psycotic behavior and let her be overwhelmed and left alone with vulunerable children.

I just pray peace, justice, and healing for that poor tortured mama.
maybe one day mental illness will actually be dealt with instead of sending sick people off to jail with minimal treatment after they have been neglected and left to their own sick devices to commit crimes they wouldn't have done with the proper care.

Okay...Im stepping off my soapbox now.
s.

I agree 100%

[Marsupialmom]

One issue I battle with and chronic mental illness is this: My family was personally hurt by a man with schizophrenia. In a sane state he decided he no longer needed his medicine and went off of it. Then he committed crimes in this insane state. He was basically let go to later go back of meds and kill another person he was later shot and killed by the arresting officer.

Our current legal system has a verdict of Not guilty by reason of insanity. I honestly think we need to change this to Guilty by reason of insanity. For repeat offenders they should be locked up for good (like the person that hurt us). I know this would not help the first time offender but I would hope we could find ways to legally protect others from a mentally unstable person.

I do think the husband is partially at fault but from my own personally experience there was not much he could to force medicine on his wife. He could have not left his wife with the kids though.

[mwherbs]

unfortunately she may end up on the street if she isn't found guilty. The way mental health is dealt with any more is the"non-institution"
Also the mental health doc should end up with some responsibility because if you read the part where they think the ex-husband didn't allow her much time alone- then giving her alone time was probably as per a doctor's recommendation.
she will be drugged and as much as you may not like it there is little else you can do for the severely mentally ill- trouble is they don't feel right on the drugs and often go off them- she wouldn't be on just an anti-depressant she would also be on an anti-psychotic- which is fairly necessary- as far as I can tell- usually on the right dose of antipsychotic med there is a better sense of social norms and often an ability to recognize disordered thinking

[intentfulady]

[loving-my-babies]

The reason I disagree with the statement of "if doctors or family member haven't let Andrea down, her kids would be alive today" is because most murderers have been abused and are criminals because of how they were raised. Does that mean we should let them be free and say.. if his mom and dad wouldn't have abused and beat him, the person he murdered would still be alive today? yes, but as people we make choices.

[mamamoo]

Originally Posted by loving-my-babies

The reason I disagree with the statement of "if doctors or family member haven't let Andrea down, her kids would be alive today" is because most murderers have been abused and are criminals because of how they were raised. Does that mean we should let them be free and say.. if his mom and dad wouldn't have abused and beat him, the person he murdered would still be alive today? yes, but as people we make choices.

Totally different imo. She was diagnosed with PPP, and was not taking her meds. Do you believe in mental illness? I think this is the problem...many people think that people can just snap out of it, or that she chose to kill her kids, there is a point where the illness takes over, and she did not have control. Please read up on PPP and mental illness in general...it is different than just choosing to do something.

[MonisMomma]

Originally Posted by mwherbs

Also the mental health doc should end up with some responsibility because if you read the part where they think the ex-husband didn't allow her much time alone- then giving her alone time was probably as per a doctor's recommendation.

Did her husband really think that leaving her alone with 5 children was "alone" time? He definitely needs to answer to the law for being partly responsible for his part in his childrens' deaths. My husband would never leave me alone with the kids and claim that was "me" time.

[mwherbs]

I tell you he was probably told he was not letting her have freedom-The people in the mental health system just do not really think about the whole person the way we do. They are very much patient advocates, and probably from their view she was a vigilant, good parent so should be able to be left alone with the kids and have that freedom. If his mom was watching her when he wasn't there, they were being hyper-vigilant for a reason. But I have been trough similar things with my sister-the docs I am sure talked about me and that I was always wanting a better level of control of her illness than they though reasonable. And my sis doesn't help because she is always wanting the least amount of medicine, stuff that won't change how she feels. And with each doctor she would question if they got the dx right- and the docs are always changing. So she would have say maybe 3 years no big problems and change in doc so for the last 3 years in her records things look good, and the new doc is thinking she doesn't think she has this problem, the records show she doesn't have any symptoms (or i am the one reporting- but I am complaining too much and am unreasonable) so maybe we should drop your meds, quality of life you know. They even just talk as if they doubt the patient has a real mental health problem., so the last time my sister stopped taking her meds- she only stopped taking part of them the anti-psychotic drug, which masked some of the psychosis and made it easier for her to try and hide it, they hide it because of paranoia, anyway while I was out to a concert with DD my husband set up the video camera in the family room next to the kitchen. My sister stood in the kitchen for over 2 hrs wispering to someone who wasn't there, she was wispering so ds2 and dh couldn't hear what she was saying. she was laughing, and crying and gesturing like someone else was there at one point my ds goes into the kitchen to get a drink and she stops and looks at him. When he leaves the room she picks up where she left off with some more wild gestures and a bit of angry statements... I watched the video, (we have been sort of hearing her but she would just say she was singing, or talking to the dog) we didn't know what was up because part of her meds were helping her to act out less visibly but the psychosis was on fully- I called the doc and wanted to up her meds- doc out of town leave a dvd of the movie dh made and guess what when we saw the doc the next time he said I am sure of your dx, you have probably had this a long time,,,,, he was very clear now that she was having a problem and was just presenting well at appointments. Hopefully this will become part of her record so with the next doc change we don't have any more well meaning docs trying to save a lost one in the system.. So I don't know how much I would blame the dh, except that the more kids without considering her condition bit is also not in reality, maybe he has some mental illness as well.