bedtime is making me CRAZY! help

[mom at home]

I was just reading the thread in the toddler forum on how other mamas are getting their kids to bed and realized I really need some suggestions because bedtime so often turns into a crazy time and it's making me insane.

My kids are almost 5 and almost 7. I feel like a created two AP monsters. We always laid with our kids at bedtime (nursed them down when babes and toddlers) but they just won't go to sleep anymore. They push and push and after an hour I'm still there and steam is coming out my ears because I haven't had any time with dh or for myself. I often do take turns with my dh but they often just want mommy, not daddy, and if it is my dh, then he has steam coming out his ears. I don't think being not tired is the issue. Often they are exhausted at bedtime, and, needless to say, very tired and cranky during the day.

Basically, I'm losing it. Bedtime seems to take 3 or so hours and I feel crazed by the time they fall asleep, then stay up way too late myself so I can have time for me and then I'm cranky the next day.

Any suggestions or just your own stories as to how you get your kids to bed and sleep.

Thanks, Alison

[breathingmom]

Alison, I let the kids watch one ZOOM in the late afternoon and I try to get some rest time in then. My little cat nap seems to help me make it through the bedtime routine.

We have had the same routine since they were little. They take a bath, brush teeth, have story time with Dad, and go to sleep. I still lay down with them every night. My one dd falls asleep right away but her twin sister takes much longer to wind down. I figure I can spend hours trying to get them to go to sleep or 15 minutes by laying down by them. I have found that I feel more bonded with them when I snuggle down at the end of the day.

There have been times when I have had to tell them that if they do not settle down that I will have to go out. I don't feel great about saying that and kinda feel like I am manipulating them. Sometimes they are just overtired and I have to be more firm about it being bed time.

I can really relate to your need for time to yourself and time with your dh!! It is so hard to be patient and reasonable when you are exhausted yourself!

Are the girls in the same room? I can't tell from your post if you stay with them until they are asleep or not. Sometimes my kids have had a hard time getting to sleep during periods of transition in our lives like moving, vacationing, starting a new ballet class, etc.

I don't know if this helps at all. I do understand though! Hang in there! Thanks for your last pm!!

~Jill

[mom at home]

Hi Jill,

Thanks for the encouragement. I have always lain with my kids until they are asleep (except sometimes my older one because often she doesn't care one way or the other) but after it's been an hour or more I just want to get up. I do tell them I will leave if they don't settle down sometimes, but it doesn't seem to make any difference and I'm never consistent. Uggh! I'm not feeling good about my parenting lately.

We thought we would start having them go to sleep by themselves unless they are asleep in 15 minutes or so, but now that bedtime is approaching I find myself wavering. They want one of us there and I do like to cuddle with them at bedtime but sometimes I find myself feeling resentful at how long it takes esp. if they aren't really trying to settle down.

My dh and I have been discussing it so we'll see what happens. I just feel like something needs to change.

Gotta go, Alison

[Linda in Arizona]

My kids are 4 and 5. They still sleep in the same bed. Our problem with me laying down with them was that I would fall asleep and then not have any time with DH. We have a rocking chair in the room and I sit in the rocking chair while they go to sleep. The rule is, they have to lay down and be very quiet, or I won't stay. I know it sounds cruel, but they were driving me crazy. My older DD has her own room with her own bed, but perfers to stay in the double bed with her little sis. If my kids are horrid at bedtime, they both have to be in their own rooms ALONE to go to sleep.

Also, having a solid bedtime routine really helps. Ours is pick up toys, put on jammies, brush teeth and hair, go potty, kiss daddy goodnight, listen to a story, go to sleep. They do this everynight, in this order. We have it on our refrig (with pictures!). Doing the same thing in the same order helps kids go to sleep.

But I still had to lay down the law. It was just a big game to them. They only had to go to sleep by themselves once to figure out that laying down and being quiet was a good idea. My kids go to sleep faster with me in the chair than they do with me laying down or being all alone.

[mamacrab]

Hello, I have been lurking for a month or two, but this is my first post on Mothering dot commune!

I had to reply because I have the exact same issue and it all kind of exploded last night. I have always nursed/snuggled dd to sleep. She is 4 and a half now, nursed until she was 4. Yes, I looooove snuggling with her and reconnecting with her and having this time with her BUT I also get so so so so resentful at times!!! If it takes more than 15 min (and it can take an hour OR MORE) I wind up seething. NO time for myself, NO time for dh (and no, she doesn't want dh at bedtime, she wants me.)

So, anyway, yesterday was a terribly stressful day for a variety of reasons, and I went I went to lay down with dd (who was totally exhausted) she was fooling around and would not settle. I get madder and madder and said that if she didn't settle, I was leaving. She continued to fool around, so I left. She became HYSTERICAL, crying and getting out of bed. I said "Get back in bed," she did not comply and then I FLIPPED out on her. I screamed like a psychotic b**ch, "GET IN BED! NOW! NOW! NOW! AND STAY THERE!" I was shreiking at the top of my lungs and right in her face. Then I picked her up and practically threw her in bed.



I don't what you all will think of me with this as my first post.
I had never done anything like that before. Usually I am very patient and soft-spoken! Honest! I was shaking, my daughter was hysterical. DH went in to her and I heard her say, "That was very very very loud! Why did mommy do that? She scared me." Dh basically comforted her but at the same time, told her that she had to listen to me. Later I did apologize for screaming.

SO, boy this is getting long, I've decided that (obviously) things have to change. For almost 5 years, I've spent as long as it takes at bedtime, and now, I'm done. My new idea for tonight is to tell dd we have a new plan: I will read her stories and sing her three songs. Then I'm getting up. Period. But wait! It's not that mean, because from her bed, she can see directly into the living room where dh or I will always be on the computer. So she can actually see us as she falls asleep but I can get UP to do the things I've been waiting all day to do.

So, that is our plan and I hope it works. And I'm sending sypmathy and encouragement to the original poster!!

[texasmama]

Mamacrab, I understand.

My son has Down Syndrome. He is 10 yrs now. When I was single and he was living with me (3 yrs ago), his teacher showed me what to do to help me be consistant with bedtime ritual.

We made a schedule and put it on the refrigerator (and looked at it every day). At bedtime, we picked up the toys, took a bath, played in bath for 10 minutes, got out, brushed teeth and hair, got jammies on, Mommy read three stories and sang lullabyes, then lights out. He usually stayed in bed. He didn't always go to sleep right away. He had to arrange his babies for bed. He would forget that he needed space to sleep on the bed too. I would check on him and have to move some of his babies to give him room to sleep on the bed.

He did best when I was consistant. He felt secure with the bedtime ritual.

[mamacrab]

thank you, texasmama!

Just hearing "I understand," from another mama- it is so comforting!

I apologized again to dd for screaming and told her we were going to try a new bedtime routine. She seemed willing to try so we'll see how it goes.

Best wishes to everyone for a peaceful bedtime!

[breathingmom]

Alison, you are such a wonderful mom. Having them be awake over an hour would make me crazy! My girls have been waking up a lot during the night and calling for me to come to them. I am wondering too if it would be better if they fell asleep by themselves so if they wake up in the middle of the night they don't need me to get back to sleep. It's hard to find a balance where everyone's needs are getting met.

mamacrab, welcome! I hope you will continue to share and be a part of our community! You are very honest in sharing your experience with your dd. I think all of us struggle and are suprised when our child can bring us to such anger. I think bedtime is more challenging because of our own fatigue and our desire to just have some time to ourselves (or with dh or dp).

It's great to hear what you other moms are doing!

~Jill

[DeChRi]

Right there with ya mamas. My 3.5 yr old dd and i always clash at bedtime. We really need a bedtime routine too. Here is some insight about bedtime I have come up with. I tend to use bedtime as a bad thing. "Rylee, do you want to pick that up pr do you want to go to bed?" "You have to the count of 3 to stop of you are going to bed!": I know, great resourcful parenting.

But what do I expect at bedtime whens she sees it as a negative thing? make sense? So I have started talking about how good we feel after we get sleep.. I also want to make bedtime a fun positive thing. A bedtime ritual to look forward to, instead of dread. I like the idea of a chair in the room. Maybe lay down and cuddle/nurse/whatever for a few minutes, then sit in the chair and read. I think part of dd's issue is that she's going through a scared of the dark thing. Who knows.

Great advice. Keep in comin!

Mamacrab-welcome!

[mom at home]

I am so thankful to read all of these responses. I think this must be somewhat common for parents who AP because we want to be there when our kids need us and connect after a long day, but we also have dh and ourselves to take care of as well.

Linda, I hear you about it being all a big game. I'm glad you figured out something that worked. I think my kids do better when I'm not in the bed as well. I think it's distracting for them.

mamacrab, welcome and thanks for sharing your story. I have lost it at bedtime before as well and that's why I want to feel good about bedtime so it is not a stressful time but a relaxed time for us all. I do wish our kids could see us from their bedroom but we have an upstairs so I'm sure they do feel lonely and sometimes afraid upstairs alone.

Jill, I know what you mean about the waking in the night. Our kids go through phases and sometimes it happens a lot. Last night my older one called me twice, but I think it was in her sleep, as she was sound asleep both times I went in. My kids are always welcome in our bed during the night or we go in with them. It's the getting to sleep that seems so hard for me.

We are on the 2nd night of our new routine. They have to be ready for bed by 8, jammies, teeth, etc. and then they can read in bed until 8:30 (younger one gets stories, older one reads herself). They can go to sleep together or separate, in our bed or theirs, whatever they want and we will lay down or sit with them for 10 minutes. If they seem to be settling down right away and seem close to sleep I'm happy to stay a little longer, but if they are goofing around, that's it. Last night my younger one was so tired, but playing the bedtime game and wouldn't settle so I left. She was really crying and upset so I told her I would sit next to her bed and she was out like a light. My main goal is to be consistent and I think things will get better very quickly as long as I can. It's amazing how they know just how far they can push.

Thanks for all the ideas. It's really helpful to hear how others of like mind are approaching this issue.

Alison

[Kirsten]

Hi Mamacrab! and others on this board! I can so relate with the bedtime difficulties. I am a weird gray area between mainstream and alternative but do not AP per se. I have also lost it at bedtime - I agree that being tired yourself, having things to do before you can go to bed, and needing some adult time can lead to frustration when the child is going on and on about what else they need and one more thing they have to tell you - oh, and then one MORE thing - and on and on til I was crazy.
Our bedtimes are currnetly going GREAT and the difference is all with US as the adults. We had been lax on bedtime - if there was a show on at 9:00 that we wanted to watch, we let her play for 30 more minutes. We all ended up too tired to be very polite by the time we got upstairs and through the bedtime routine (which can often take up to an hour).
Now we go up at 8:00 on bath night and 8:30 if not (we alternate - baths every other night). Ten second tidy, potty, bath, teeth brush, read stories, tuck into bed, turn on lullaby tape, turn off lights, "love you"s then close the door. DD1 is 6 and dd2 is 2. Dd1 likes me to lay with her after lights out. I do this but just for 5 minutes. It is enough for her - though she knows that is what I am willing to do so doesn't bug me for longer. The "new" routine was bucked for a few days but now they love it. We are all getting more sleep; I have some adult time now that I didn't before; they are happier kids as a result of getting more sleep.
I cannot fathom (for me) laying with her til she fell asleep. As some have said - that could take an hour! I am a SAHM and by 9:00 p.m. I need a little time to myself. I am all with you on giving to your kids; they need me; only little once thing. But I am not exactly AP so may be the lone holdout on this one. A few times (when I was really tired) I fell asleep laying on her (twin!) bed with her and about a million stuffed animals. I am hanging on by a cheek if you get my drift.... Not a comfy way to rest. I can really see a difference in the attitude of our entire family since we've gotten into a routine for a good bedtime.
Kirsten

[Alegria]

I also get frustrated about having to stay in bed with dd. She's never really had a bedtime. We just take her with us or I go to bed w/ her when she's tired because she keeps waking up if she doesn't feel me next to her. I am afraid to continue this way after hearing that she may still require this at 5,6,7. She's only 2.5 but I want a night life of my own in the evening. She hardly ever takes naps and when she does it's so late in the afternoon that she's not tired till very late. I'm always more tired than she is. And she'll look really tired and get cranky and then play in bed for more than an hour. If she's not sleeping I'd rather be reading or sewing or getting something done. Or worse I really am the one who needs to sleep.

The advise some of you had aboput pictures of the routine on the refrig sound excelent.

[Linda in Arizona]

<<I don't what you all will think of me with this as my first post.
I had never done anything like that before. Usually I am very patient and soft-spoken! Honest! >>>

I believe you! (Mostly because I could have written your post.)

My kids have never been spanked, have only had a few time outs in their whole lives, but every once in a while I loose it and scream at them. It is scary to be that out of control.

If I had read this thread when my kids where tots I would have thought it was horrid, but my oldest turns 6 in a few weeks and this is just different. I've tandum nursed, nursed a 3 year old, and slept with babies on top for me for enough time. I'm ready them them to just go to sleep! The turning point for me was about the time my youngest turned 4.

[mom at home]

I am so thankful for all of your replies and stories. Things are going great, much better than expected anyway, and I'm so glad I decided to get bedtime under control.

We've never had a very rigid routine or time, but we now have very specific times. In jammies and all ready for bed and in bed by 8 with a half hour to read or be read to, then lights out and my dh or I will sit in a chair in their room for 10 or 15 minutes, then we leave. Sometimes they fall asleep while we are there, othertimes not, but they are staying in bed after we leave and going to sleep. I really like cuddling with my kids at bedtime but that seemed only to keep them awake to have me right next to them so I'm glad you mentioned the rocking chair, Linda. I am going to move the rocking chair in there tonight. I think they settle much better when there's a little distance.

Thanks,
Alison

[mamacrab]

Alsion, I'm really glad things are working out better for you!
Bedtime has improved around here, too. My daughter was very receptive to the new plan. I read her stories in the living room, then lie down with her to sing 3 lullabies and then I leave. For five nights in a row, she has stayed in bed and fallen asleep within 5 to 15 minutes. No tears!! I came to the same conclusion that you did- at her age (4 and a half), I was actaully keeping her up by staying in bed with her. She has been going to bed almost an hour earlier than wehen I would stay and sing and cuddle and sing and talk and sing, etc etc. Now, all of sudden, 9:30 comes around and I actually have time to myself!!!

Thats why I'm on MDC right now, LOL!

Now maybe I can finally catch up with my photo albums (they're about 3 years behind right now). Its such a wonderful luxury to have time to myself at night, I still can't quite believe it. And I'm just so glad we came up with a loving solution. Thanks, everyone, for your stories and your understanding.

[momnloveit]

I have never slept with my kids because, well, I can't sleep with kids in my bed! But I've discovered some new bedtime things that have been really fun and awesome. Since baby 3 came 10 wks ago, my boys (2 and 4) have been testing limits like crazy! I've also been feeling guilty for the whole recovery period and how they must feel about baby, etc. So things got pretty crazy around here! I think kids get worried when we don't stick to our rules. They need the limits! So now, we do our normal routine: teeth jammies stories scriptures prayers bed. Once theyre in bed my dh or I tell them a "once upon a time", a story from our own childhood told in 3rd person. "once there was a little girl who..." and at the end they guess who the characters in the story were. It has been so fun. We've started recording them so we'll remember. It helps them realize what grandparents really are, etc. Then I let them each pick a song for me to sing. Then they each get "dwo minutes" as my 2yo says. We climb into their toddler beds and ask them about their day. I set my watch timer for 2 minutes. It has made bedtime so much more fun for me and them. Now my 4yo says, "good night mommy, I'll see you in the morning" I say: "I can't wait!" He says, "I can't wait too!"

[lilyka]

The book that helped me most with getting my kids to bed was "The 7:00 bed time" Despite the title it isn't as bad as it sounds. It mostly focused on two things

1) bed time routien. Be it simple or elaborate it is important to have one and important to be consistant.

2) Put them to bed at the same time every day even the weekends.

3) make sure thier daily activities prepare them for a restful night (avoid TV, feed them early enough for thier food to digest, fresh air and excersize, eliminate naps f you need to etc. . .)

We have just ended the sleep battles in our home, It is a beautiful thing indeed. My first dd was a champion sleeper. She went from our bed to her bed fairly easy, when I decided I was done laying with her at night it only took her a couple of days to adjust. When I out of the blue decided she needed an 8:00 bed time no big wup. then came my second dd who fights sleep as though it was satan himself. It would take me hours to get her down at night, Nothing worked. She has never really slept and initially falling asleep has always been the worst part. Two weeks ago I finally (after almost 6 years of hearing it in every book I read) broke down and started a night itme routien. Not only did I start it. I wrote it down on paper and followed it to the letter.

Starting at 8:00
She gets a hot bath (hotter than I thought she would like ) and wash with lavender soap (instead of the hype inducing cherry and grape) and her sister (aka partner in crime) must be nowhere in sight or hearing. So after the bath we move to my room which has nothing but a closet light on (all other lights upstairs are off and all TV and radios are off) where she gets a brief massage with lavender and chamomile lotion. We put on jammies and head for bed. As we go to bed we sing the good night song. I lay with her for 15 minutes and we talk quietly about what we did today and what we will do tomarrow ("see honey, your not going to miss anything by sleeping "). Then regaurdless of weather she is awake or not I leave the room and shut the door behind me.

It drives me crazy being so organized and having routiens and schedules but she responded the first night and hasn't had a major relapse yet. So I reccomend having a bed time routien and being very cinsistant. That is the key. You have to follow through every single time every single night. Talk to your kids about how night will be. Set the ground rules. Would they like if you laid down with them for a few minutes or none at all (for some getting up and leaving may b e disturbing), would they like to fall asleep reading books or read 3 books in bed? What time is bedtime? How do you expect them to behave once the light is out? Do they want a night light or total darkness? Door open or closed? Once you have established the rules be consistant every night, every time. Put a note on thier door reminding you to be consistant if you have to. That was the hardest part for me. Also don't bend the rules as a reward for being good for a week. That usually results in you going backward. They have seen that if they play the game for a while then they can change the rules.

good luck. i Know how frustrating it can be. there is no time in my life when I was more on edge than when I had been laying in bed trying to get my dd to sleep and I look up and see it has been two freaking hours.

[KathyS]

We are very lucky...all our children go to bed nice and on time ( 98% of the time.

We had a problem with our son AJ when he was around 4-5 getting out of his bed at night and coming into our room to sleep..while I love to snuggle..it did interrupt our sleep and it got uncomfortable at times too.

This is what we did and maybe something to try.......

We set a goal for him....if he slept in his bed all night 6 nights out of 7. He could have a sleep over at grandmas house. It worked.
They seem to wake up and not know how to get themselves back to sleep..

Maybe a similar "reward" would work with your children. Just an example..if they goto bed on time and stay in bed.for say 6 nights out of 7. Then they can have a camp out with sleeping bags on the floor of mom & dad's room?? You can make the reward almost anything....

We have also had to use the other method of lovingly..but VERY Firmly telling them that they have to stay in their rooms at bed time and get up under NO circumstances..often we did indure tears and what not( They are testing you)..but if you stick it out it will get better. ...its well worth it to have children who go to bed nicely

hope to have helped some..and Good Luck..

[french*girl]

Ughh!!! I knew I would find people with the same xperiences as me here!! Its 10:00 and my dh is laying with our daughter who is nearing 3. She has never been able to fall asleep in under an hour unless she forgoes her nap. I have lost it soooo many times, I'm embarrassed to admit it. I feel like if she would just go to sleep I would be happier during the day. I get the point of seething and snap at her. I have even lied to her and told her I hear thunder which she is terrified of (because it works! She will be out in 5 minutes after the thunder threat - What is wrong with me?!)

There are a couple of things I am going to try startign tomorrow. First of all a steady routine. Second of all, I have read about calcium/ magnesiun & EFA deficiencys being a culprit in "hard time falling asleep".

Two things that DID help us with the constant night waking (every 2 hours for over 2 years) was to quit nursing in the mornings - she now nurses to nap and sleep - twice a day.

But the BIG thing was "network chiropractic care". My dd slept 7 hours straight after her 1st adjustment and then started sleeping 10-11 hour stretches. I cannot begin to tell you what an amazing difference this makes!!! There are times she reverts back to constant wakign but the next time she gets adjusted its back to long nights of restful sleep.

Thanks for all the info about nightly routines. I personally found lavender to have the reverse effect on my dd. It would make things worse. I do think one thing that really helps is to feed them early (before 5) which we rarely do because we ike to eat as a family.

[french*girl]

Ughh!!! I knew I would find people with the same xperiences as me here!! Its 10:00 and my dh is laying with our daughter who is nearing 3. She has never been able to fall asleep in under an hour unless she forgoes her nap. I have lost it soooo many times, I'm embarrassed to admit it. I feel like if she would just go to sleep I would be happier during the day. I get the point of seething and snap at her. I have even lied to her and told her I hear thunder which she is terrified of (because it works! She will be out in 5 minutes after the thunder threat - What is wrong with me?!)

There are a couple of things I am going to try starting tomorrow. First of all a steady routine. Second of all, I have read about calcium/ magnesiun & EFA deficiencies being a culprit in "hard time falling asleep".

Two things that DID help us with the constant night waking (every 2 hours for over 2 years) was to quit nursing in the mornings - she now nurses to nap and sleep - twice a day.

But the BIG thing was "network chiropractic care". My dd slept 7 hours straight after her 1st adjustment and then started sleeping 10-11 hour stretches. I cannot begin to tell you what an amazing difference this makes!!! There are times she reverts back to constant wakign but the next time she gets adjusted its back to long nights of restful sleep.

Thanks for all the info about nightly routines. I personally found lavender to have the reverse effect on my dd. It would make things worse. I do think one thing that really helps is to feed them early (before 5) which we rarely do because we ike to eat as a family.