Another time-out thread ... - Page 2

[LunaMom]

Lucina3, that's great that your dd was so aware! I'm often surprised at how well children can read themselves. A friend's son, who has some aggression/social issues, will sometimes hang back and refuse to join in the play at a park or playgroup, despite his mother's encouragement. Those are the days when he usually winds up hitting another child. The days he willingly joins in are the days he holds it all together. It's as though he has an internal barometer and he is an expert at reading it! He is only 3 1/2, too.

Beloved Bird, I think you made a good point. It is much easier to use other techniques when there is only one child to deal with, and I can see the need to remove children from rooms or situations when there are more than one, especially if one child's safety is being endangered in any way. And the "time-outs" you and many others are describing are not those "go sit in the corner" type time-outs that many people use. Honestly, "time-out" was probably never meant to be a banishment, but that is how many parents use it.

Dfoy, I love that think sheet idea. What El Casey said about time-out not doing the whole job...I think your think sheet (and I guess for younger kids, a similar discussion) is essential. I don't use time-outs, but I always discuss with dd what happened, and ask her how she can do things differently next time. I think that, for those who use time-out, this type of follow up is so important, otherwise the child doesn't learn a thing!

[charmarty]

I asked this question on another thread too and I will ask it here b/c it seems more appropriate.
Do you also use 'time ins'?Thats where you hold your baby aginnst thier will,hold down arms and legs b/c there I guess is lots of kicking and screaming,and of coarse crying.
What is the purpose of this 'time in'.How is it to work?Does it work for you and why?Is it considered gentle dicipline.
I am really interested in learning more about this type of punishment,and where it comes from.Thanks

[NoraB]

I did not vote b/c right now I only have 1 child who is not yet 11 months. So, I've yet to deal w/ a "time-out" situation. I used the think that time-outs were a great technique until I read Potitive Disicipline. That book totally changed my opinion on time-outs. I like the idea of using a time-out as a way for the misbehaving child to get a grip on his/herself. Also, after reading Rasing Your Spirited Child, I'm more firmly convinced that a non-punitive time-out can work wonders to help a misbehaving child feel better and thus behave better.

[alixzara]

Whoa!

charmarty wrote:
"I asked this question on another thread too and I will ask it here b/c it seems more appropriate.
Do you also use 'time ins'?Thats where you hold your baby aginnst thier will,hold down arms and legs b/c there I guess is lots of kicking and screaming,and of coarse crying.
What is the purpose of this 'time in'.How is it to work?Does it work for you and why?Is it considered gentle dicipline.
I am really interested in learning more about this type of punishment,and where it comes from.Thanks"


This post alarmed me. I don't know if I responded to the OT that you mention, but I have used the term "time-in" on another thread I've written in.

I just want to clarify, "time-in" as a concept for me does NOT mean "holding time" as suggested by Martha Welch. IMO it is wrong to hold someone against their will. I DO preempt any hitting, kicking, headbutting, biting, etc. that may occur during the time-in by blocking or holding the offending appendage until the urge passes. Keeping us both safe, kwim?

In no way have I personally stated that you hold your child against their will. I do not consider that gentle discipline. This thread seems to me to be about "discipline", not "punishment", which are two DISTINCTLY different things.

Time-in, as I define it for our family, is a matter of removing US from the situation, and I sit with my dd until she "gets her feelings out" and we discuss the problem and possible solutions. She is 2.5, and I feel it's a matter of making her *aware, informed and helping her do the right thing. Whereas, time-out, in my head involves isolation and ostracizing the child until they behave better - which doesn't work because they cannot learn the tools they need to do so all alone.

I can clearly see how much easier this is for me as we have only one child at this time. I can imagine how I'm going to have to rethink the issue when we have another. Sheesh. This never gets any easier.

Charmarty, please don't feel like I'm railing on you, I just felt the question needed clarification.

[Katie65]

I use time out with my 22 month old, basically as a removal from the situation....

I warn her that there will be a time out...and if she keeps misbehaving we go to the kitchen and sit in a chair (her in one, me in one next to her) and set the kitchen timer for 1 minute. I put her back in the chair anytime she tries to get up. after the 1 minute, she's free to go.

It seems to be working well.


***edited to add that while we are sitting next to each other in the chairs, I talk to her about why what she did was wrong, in a calm tone of voice. I want the time out to be more of a chance to take a breather and a learning experience.

[BusyMommy]

Hate to say it, but t/o works great for us! When ds ( 2 years) simply has too much excess energy and is endangering the dogs/cats/brother, we simply ask him if he wants a t/o. He says nooooo and the behavior immediately ceases. If one of the pets gets too rough, he'll lead them over to the time out spot and tell them to "think it over."

[earthpapi]

Originally posted by BusyMommy
Hate to say it, but t/o works great for us! When ds ( 2 years) simply has too much excess energy and is endangering the dogs/cats/brother, we simply ask him if he wants a t/o. He says nooooo and the behavior immediately ceases. If one of the pets gets too rough, he'll lead them over to the time out spot and tell them to "think it over."

that is so cool,

ds is 2 in 3.5 hours and i feel bad telling him to go to t/o it like he does not understand what is going on. i know he does he will start crying and then stop(we have told him when stops to cry get up) so he knows that. he also knows when he gets up he has to say he is sorry which now is a kiss and hug since he can not say sorry. dw says it works when i am not around. and i can tell he knows where to sit and he looks at dw as to say he did not mean to. i think this is so much better then other ways.
i think i am just to much of a nice guy. my dad was very physical towards me and my two brothers, you know throwing us against walls and stuff, so everytime i get upset at ds the only thing i can image doing is giving ds hugs and thinking to myself that i will never hurt him. i think that is why i do not work with any kind of disipline. but i know my dw is doing a great job. hopefully i will stop thinking i am turning into my dad and help out dw. ok sorry about getting off the subject.

[BusyMommy]

Funny, our good friends are the exact same. She was abused as a kid for discipline and now can't discipline her kids at all. She actually threatens a lot but always backs down-such a mixed message. Her dh is consistent with his expectations and consequences and the kids respect him and really and truly don't misbehave for him.

[brookelynnp]

We have imo successfully used t/o with ds since he was about fourteen months. I think that he understands that there are consequences to certain behaviors such as hitting or now that he is older, not listening. I too have had to evolve with our t/o as ds gets older. Now there is more redirection and discussion and if needed isolation as well. But mostly a well fed and slept child I only have to warn him of a t/o and he changes his actions.

[nomadmom]

I voted no, I've got something better, but I don't know how accurate that is. I've never liked the term "time out" because it is so misused and misunderstood. I do use "removal from the situation", but I don't "send" my kids anywhere and they don't go alone.

If I see a situation about to get out of hand, I tell the child involved that we need to talk. We go away from the action and I point out how the undesirable behavior is affecting other people (or me, if the child is doing something I find offensive/dangerous/etc.). If there are strong emotions involved, or a problem to be solved, we talk it through. Sometimes it's just a matter of slowing down for a few minutes.

I have always used this method (mainly just for "out of control" situations), so my kids come with me willingly. They know there's no punishment to fear and that I'm going to try to help them.

[Ravin]

How about "Yes, they're for parental/caregiver cool-down"? The most effective use I've seen of time-out is when the parent needs one rather than the child. I stopped bothering with sit-down time outs with my niece because they only made both of us more upset. Instead the time out (which was usually for hitting) would simply be time for me to have some space. She hit me, then it was time out and she couldn't sit in the chair with me, for example. I've seen a friend use it w/ older children (4 and up) simply to get them and herself to calm down, then she would talk with them about the problem behavior one-on-one.

Time out isn't going to teach or correct anything, but I think it can be useful to help keep tempers cool, especially the caregiver's.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I use time-outs very sparingly, only when my 3 YO has hurt someone. By this, I mean real, go sit in that chair and I'm going to ignore you until the timer rings time-outs. These are for things that there is no excuse for. I don't care if my 3 YO is hungry, tired, bored, whatever. He is not allowed to hit someone, kick the dog, bite...

I think this serves a couple of purposes. It reinforces that I'm serious about the rule. It removes him from whomever he has hurt which allows both parties to recover their bearings. If it was me that got hurt, it gives me time to recover before I respond in kind. (I have a theory that those of us who were abused as kids have a particularly hard time when hit or hurt by a child.) It lets me get the rest of the situation under control. It lets me be consistant with my message and the response to it.

Lesser problems are worked out with a "situational response" (e.g. cleaning up the mess) but hurting someone requires something stronger in my mind.

[Piglet68]

Originally posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom
(I have a theory that those of us who were abused as kids have a particularly hard time when hit or hurt by a child.)....
...but hurting someone requires something stronger in my mind.

just throwing this thought out here...you mentioned that as an abused kid, being hurt is a particularly strong trigger for you. then later you say that you consider hitting to be one of those actions that requires "something stronger".

do you see the connection there?

it just reminds me of what harville hendrix says in his book "giving the love that heals". usually the things you consider the "biggest issues" are issues that were big for you as a child.

while i agree that hitting is not acceptable behaviour, i dont' place an emphasis on it like I see some other parents do. it's like they are saying that for other infractions, one can be patient and involved and talk it out, etc but when it comes to "certain behaviors" it's like everything goes out the window and something harsher is justified. hmmm, i'm not saying this well (nak) but hopefully you get my drift. you're not being harsh, just it seems you have different way of dealing with this. you differentiate, kwim?

it's like with horses many people would say "oh i never hit my horse b/c there's a reason for each misbehaviour" but then use the excuse "biting is never acceptable so i'll hit him when he bites". to the horse, no one behaviour is any more "special" than the other. they all have their root causes. i think it's the same with kids. when they don't want to share a toy, that's not nice behaviour but it has an underlying reason behind it (not developmentally ready to understand the concept, maybe dealing with jealousy issues...). i believe that even "extremes" like hitting and biting need to be dealt with the same way as other misbehaviours, b/c they certainly have their underlying reasons as well.

hope this makes sense. what do y'all think of what i'm saying (if you can understand me, lol)...this is still a theory-in-process in my head, so i'm looking forward to the feedback.

[Periwinkle]

No time-outs yet (or any punishment yet) - 14 mos. old babies are too young IMO. We use a combination of gently saying "Not for baby" or "Ouch - hurt baby".. and "You may play with this instead!" (e.g., when they're touching an electrical cord). Mostly we try to make sure they don't get in those situations in the first place.

I am kind of biased against time-outs because I have only really seen them used in an exasperated and negative way, e.g., "Bobby, I swear, if you don't PUT THAT DOWN right this instant you're getting a time out!!! I mean it!" Getting a time out, as in , I can't deal with you right now, so I'm going to isolate you until we both calm down.

I would like to see how they'd be used in a more positive non-threatening way, like maybe gently remove toddler from situation but then sit with him, or something. That I could see working maybe.

[EFmom]

We use time outs with great success. They are a removal from the situation. Our kids don't especially like them, but they are not a big deal for them.

I don't believe in hitting children and I don't believe in yelling at them, but I'm not against the "p" word in general.

[gaffa]

Originally posted by BusyMommy
Hate to say it, but t/o works great for us! When ds ( 2 years) simply has too much excess energy and is endangering the dogs/cats/brother, we simply ask him if he wants a t/o. He says nooooo and the behavior immediately ceases.

Exact same situation here! I only have to actually use a time out once every week or two, and it's been like three weeks since the last one this time around. DS is 2.5. I think time-outs can be shameful, or they can be loving and it's all in how an individual uses them. We have no specific location, it just means removing him from the negative behavior and haveing him sit down in a chair wherever we are.

He first gets told to stop whatever behavior, then told the reason why it's dangerous/rude//etc., and if he still isn't deterred I sit him down, meanwhile telling him why I need him to sit down, that I'm sorry we have to do it this way, and that he needs to stop because of danger etc. I usually have it last about a minute, and then we cuddle afterward and the issue stops right there. All this done without yelling etc.

It works wonders here.