Feeling uncomfortable with older nursling's behavior

[mamadelasmountains]

I am tandem nursing my 17 month old and my 4 1/2 yo. My older nursling (boy) is into just cuddling with my breasts and burying his head in between and then nursing. He gets really into it and he begs me incessantly to do it. It has really gotten ramped up this last week and at first I thought I would just let him do it even though it made me feel weird (inappropriate?) and hopefully he would get over it, but it has made it worse. He wants to do it all the time now. I have always been totally into CLweaning but with him, I have felt like I personally needed to limit the nursing and fondling. He always wants me to take off my shirt and he screams with excitement when he sees my breasts if I'm changing or we get a bath. I have felt the need to teach him that it is MY body and I get to say when he can touch or nurse, not him. I nurse him usually whenever I nurse the 17 month old, which is frequently, but I only nurse the older one for a few seconds and then I cut him off. I just don't feel comfortable with it right now. I am hoping that I haven't created a boobie fetish in him!! (or maybe I am by not letting him do it?) I was hoping to satisfy all his needs and let him wean on his own, but now I am thinking "when will he ever stop nursing?". I really don't mind the nursing occasionally for short periods of time, but I do mind the fondling and burying his head in them, etc. I have a feeling it's just our society's criticism of sustained nursing that is making me feel so weird, and it is also a blurring of what is intimate/ sexual/ sensual/natural, etc. It is uncharted , uncomfortable territory for me. I can't even believe I am writing this. I am a militant nurser in public, etc. until recently. Something has switched in me and I want to wean the older one, but I don't want to reject him, so i don't but i am still rejecting him by not allowing him to nurse whenever he wants, however he wants, for as long as he wants. I guess I am a little panicked. Help out there?

[Viv Buentiempo]

I have no answers but I know how you are feeling. My 3 1/2 year old wants chi chi whenever he sees my naked breasts. He asks to have chi chi naked-meaning me without a bra or shirt on. I feel uncomfortable saying yes, but sometimes it seems ok, i.e. I'm getting out of the shower and am wrapped in a towel. It doesn't happen all the time. He seems to go through phases when it seems to be more important than other times. He really likes to nurse and consciously has no intention of stopping. We were talking and I told him when he was older and moved away from us to go to college, he could live wherever he wanted (he talks alot about wanting to live someplace else) and he wanted to know where he would get chi chi if he moved away. I'm really interested in hearing others' responses.

[edamommy]

Baylor is the groper of the century. I'm finding myself at wits end with him, too. He's 22 months. It seems to happen more when I'm having my period- which makes it even worse for me. But he squeezes, fodles, tweets, pumps my left breast while nursing from the right. He's never nursed on the left. It's like his "stress ball" or something. And his actions are really making me think of wheaning... I don't want to but when he goest throught these weeks of just harrassing me while he's nursing it's almost more than I can take. I find myself tucking my shirt up under my left breast and holding it myself w/ all my might to keep him away from it!

I feel for you and you're not alone!

[callmemama]

The important thing is to remember that it is NOT sexual! A 4 1/2 year old may seem like a little man next to the baby, but he's still just a little boy that has found great comfort at the breast. Be proud! Having said that, if the fondling is too rough on you, you could try talking to him about limiting the fondling. Maybe explain that you're happy to nurse him, but it doesn't feel good to you to have him to do the other things. Just my thoughts...

[bwylde]

I'm going through this lately with DS. As a sexual abuse survivor, it is very hard to me to be groped and touched all over. I have always been especially sensitive about my breast area, so it makes me want to crawl out of my skin and cry sometimes (I know children aren't being sexual with it, but it's still hard to deal with. Nursing is one thing and I can handle that, but being groped is another). Even the way he nurses now bothers me a lot. He's very possesive and hates when DD nurses and is always screaming that they're HIS boos. As much as I want to CLW and know that he still needs to nurse, I have lots of times where I just want to wean him so I can have some level of comfort back.

Wish I had some good advise, but I only have commiseration :

[mamadelasmountains]

I know it must not be sexual, but sometimes it so mimics sexual behavior, or at least what guys do during sexual behavior. The line gets so blurred for me, as if there is no line? then that scares me. Above all I don't want to damage my child, so I don't know if withholding is good or letting him do what he wants to is good. With motherhood I learned to share my body completely and sexual/sensual/natural/intimate were all inextricably wound up into one. How could they not be? I guess this is just another area to see if I can stretch the boundaries of what society has placed on us. I just don't know if I can.
I love the idea of talking to him and explaining that I don't feel comfortable with the face burying excitement. I have done that and he asks "WHY?" and I don't have a good reason to tell him. For now, I just say I love him to nurse (a little) but I'm not ok with the other stuff because it's my body and I get to be in charge of my body like he gets to be in charge of his body. That's a good lesson too. Still in a quandry- love hearing these responses.

[lunar forest]

My 3y ds can be very physical, and he has done things like what you describe. He is hard to reason with, but when he asks why I don't like x, y, or z, I tell him that it just doesn't feel good. Surprisingly he excepts this explaination, and only needs reminders now.

HTH

[oliversmum2000]

i think at the end of the day we are basically mammals, we love and nurture our babies and nurse them for as long as we feel they have a need to just as mammals do but we also have our own boundaries and comfort levels which i think it is healthy for children to learn about.

the reason i mention the mammal thing is because my mother breeds goats and it is very interesting to see how when the babies are little the mother will stand and let them nurse for ages then as they got older she will let them join her for a quick suck then just keep on walking and push them away till they are at the point of only have a few sucks till she is bored and shakes them off.

i cannot think of any more natural weening than watching the progression in their relationship. and while our babies take much longer to mature i think that there reaches a point when we all feel the need to skake them off a little.

i admire you greatly as i encouraged my son to ween just after his 3rd birthday as my comfort level had been reached and i felt my relationship with him was being compromised by my resentment. i figured he was ready when he asked to nurse and i offered him ice cream, i thenr elented and figured that giving treats every time he aksed to nurse was not a good idea, he then broke down sobbing and said 'but you said i could have ice cream' i then started to wonder how emotionally dependent he still was.

we still have lost of physical closeness as when he nursed he used to have 'tummy-middle' where he would stroke my stomach and back and he still does this a lot (which can also drive me crazy at times, so much so that i have to get dressed in the bathroom with a stir gate accross it because as soon as he sees my clothes coming off he virtually throws himself at me and wont let go of me!)

i am not sure what the point is that i am trying to make just that you are important too and that even the most natural of mothers (the goats) feel that they have had enough when nursing reaches a certain stage. i would go with your gut and handle the situation in a way that both makes you feel that you can cope but in a way that you think he can handle. remember that even william sear says 'if you resent it change it'

good luck

[beanma]

i can relate! sometimes my almost 4 yr old dd likes to "nuzzle" my "milk milks". i just tell her i don't like that. sometimes she wants to tickle my nipples or do some other tweaky things. i tell her that my nipples are sensitive (not wanting to tell her what she's doing is annoying me, and they are sensitive) and it doesn't feel good. i'm not sure what the best way to handle it is, but i agree that it must be a natural mammalian response to want to limit nursing some.

[velcromom]

My ds is only 25 months but he has always been a very enthusiastic groper, squeezer, etc. I constantly nurse with my free wrist pressed against the other breast so he can't pinch my nipple. I've had to do this since before he was a year old so in a way, limits have been a part of our nursing relationship for a long time. Today he was pinching, I put him down when he refused to stop - he hollered for a second then went to play.
I have no problem telling him it hurts or it tickles too much. I do think from seeing livestock all my life that there is a natural point where mama mammals start to say, enough. I don't think it is unnatural to manage the nursing relationship in order to be able to continue it. I think if I felt it was wrong to stop him, I'd just want to not nurse, then I'd think that was not right either and I'd be so tied up in knots.

"Why?" is the question around here too, delivered with a dramatic expression of confusion and bewilderment that seems to imply I must be crazy to have suggested he not grab handfuls of skin and squeeze them. I tell him, It hurts, use gentle touch with mama. He shows me he understands with his demonstration of "gentle touch" - he reaches up and lightly strokes my cheek. Which of course melts my heart and soothes over any annoyance.

[mamadelasmountains]

I'm glad to know others have this "problem". I was also starting to wonder if it were some sort of Oedipal thing until I saw that girls were doing it oo.
I HAVE been thinking of mammals and how they handle nursing, so it's funny that this is mentioned. I have always had horses, and while the mother will nurse the baby for a long time, once she gets sick of it, she will kick the yearling (or so) off of her. I've seen dogs wean their older puppies by snapping at them. So I have felt that my instincts were right on for a mammal, I have just wondered how much to use my brain and heart. This is helping to talk about it with you all.

[Ravin]

Having seen posts like this one, and about nipple tweaking, & etc., I just made a rule for DD and myself from the get-go that while she's nursing at one breast the other one is not to be touched/fondled in any way. I keep it covered so that she's not tempted. She does like the skin-to-skin contact, and will therefore put a hand or both on my belly or on the breast she's nursing from, and sometimes she strokes my belly. I find this soothing and relaxing, so I let her do it. I do not tolerate pinching or biting, and will end a nursing session over it (and begin again in 30 sec. usually, if she really wants to nurse more).

The older she gets, the more firm in these limits I get, because like another poster said, it's my body and I want DD to understand that while I want her to have milk and comfort, I want to be comfortable, too, and we each have first say about our own bodies.

[soccerchic21]

My DD who is 18 months is a fondler. Now I am trying to stop her from doing it just because I am pregnant and my breasts are VERY sensitive. Usually she likes to fondle the other breast or nipple with her hand. I just take her hand in mine and try to hold it and tell her that mommy has an owie there right now.

I don't know if it would make you feel better but I remember when my brother and I were younger we would often cuddle into my mother and grandmother's breasts. We called them our "pillows". I think it is a security comfort thing for younger children. They feel safe there.

[phathui5]

Don't feel like you can't set limits because you believe in CLW. You're still a nursing Couple and you both have to be comfortable. If you are uncomfortable with him doing the stuff other than nursing, don't allow it.

Let him know what you're ok with and what things you don't want him to do.

[DreamsInDigital]

I have a groper on my hands too. My 16-month-old DS will cry if he can't get to the other "na na" while he's nursing. And he's not very gentle either. My milk supply has been dwindling the past few months, so I think maybe it's because without as much milk he feels like he needs more comfort?

[soccerchic21]

Originally Posted by DreamsInDigital

I have a groper on my hands too. My 16-month-old DS will cry if he can't get to the other "na na" while he's nursing. And he's not very gentle either. My milk supply has been dwindling the past few months, so I think maybe it's because without as much milk he feels like he needs more comfort?

Ashe! I was just thinking about you today! How are you? PM me so I don't hijack the post :LOL

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by edamommy

Baylor is the groper of the century. I'm finding myself at wits end with him, too. He's 22 months. It seems to happen more when I'm having my period- which makes it even worse for me. But he squeezes, fodles, tweets, pumps my left breast while nursing from the right. He's never nursed on the left. It's like his "stress ball" or something. And his actions are really making me think of wheaning... I don't want to but when he goest throught these weeks of just harrassing me while he's nursing it's almost more than I can take. I find myself tucking my shirt up under my left breast and holding it myself w/ all my might to keep him away from it!

I feel for you and you're not alone!

He's doing that for a reason. When you are on your period you probably don't produce as well, it's instinct for him to stimulate both breasts at once to encourage letdown.

[LadyGodiva]

Hi! I'm new to these boards and to this forum.

This was a very interesting thread. I posted a question about Oedipal behaviour on the family bed board.

What struck me here, is that most 'gropers' are boys.
And the reference to nursing mammals... came up on the "Oedipus" thread, too. It makes a lot of sense.

the reason i mention the mammal thing is because my mother breeds goats and it is very interesting to see how when the babies are little the mother will stand and let them nurse for ages then as they got older she will let them join her for a quick suck then just keep on walking and push them away till they are at the point of only have a few sucks till she is bored and shakes them off.

I HAVE been thinking of mammals and how they handle nursing, so it's funny that this is mentioned. I have always had horses, and while the mother will nurse the baby for a long time, once she gets sick of it, she will kick the yearling (or so) off of her. I've seen dogs wean their older puppies by snapping at them.

Now I like to refer to mammals (especially horses), too. Now in horses, a little colt (male baby horse) will have erections and try to climb on his mother. As the colt grows his mother will slowly "kick him off" the utter. Even later he'll get kicked out of the herd by the dominating stallion and he'll live in a bachelor's group with other young stallions where they learn what being a stallion is all about, before setting out to get a herd of their own .
When we take so called "primitive" cultures we see a similar treatment of boys. Boyhood, initiation my male mentors, coming back to their family as men, becoming a father and caring for children of their own.
In both cases, the mother can only take so much and a temporary separation must occur.
In animals, I think it is also a matter of physical strength. If the youngster was not set back at times, he'd be trodding all over his mom in no-time.

It's a learning and growing process where limits must be set to guarantee a harmonious functioning.

The older she gets, the more firm in these limits I get, because like another poster said, it's my body and I want DD to understand that while I want her to have milk and comfort, I want to be comfortable, too, and we each have first say about our own bodies

And THAT is a very important lesson for the child's sexuality, too: someone else's body can be there for your (physical) pleasure, but it must be a two way ticket!

[Ruthla]

It sounds to me like the issue isn't the nursing, it's the other behaviors that he wants to tag along with it!

I think he's old enough to understand "Mommy doesn't like that" or "That doesn't feel good to Mommy." No need to get into societal norms or your adult perceptions of his behavior- the simple fact that it makes you uncomfortable is reason enough for him not to do it.

[loftmama]

hey mamadelasmountains, just wondering how it's going. i'm going through the same thing my my 4.5yo ds. wondering when it will pass. it's making me beyond nuts.