Metal fillings replaced while breastfeeding? - Page 3

[JaneS]

Finally got results back

Our hair tests were lost in Katrina for three weeks...

DS showing high aluminum, antimony, arsenic, bismuth, mercury and titanium.

The 3 "a's" and the mercury being most significant. I didn't think Titanium is supposed to do anything but it's off the charts. Normal is 1, he is 44.

He hasn't been eating paint or paper that I know of. He uses sunscreen with it but not really that much, only a few days a week and not even all over whole body, I believe in sunshine. This could mean that he clearly has a problem excreting heavy metals. He does meet one "counting rule", the test that Andrew Cutler developed for mercury toxicity www.noamalgam.com

He is low in calcium

I have a lot of reading to do.

My test was much less dramatic. Arsenic and Bismuth only high metals. I met no counting rules, although my essential minerals could be considered abnormal. I'm low in calcium as well. And molybdenum and selenium, two minerals which are important for metal detox.

I found it very odd that I was low for mercury. Given the fact that the test was done at end of July and I had all my fillings out in May and June. I guess that could mean the safety protocol at www.iaomt.org that my dentist used really works. Or I'm messed up and just storing all the mercury.

I'm scared for DS. I was really expecting me to clearly need chelation b/c all those freakin' fillings. I'm prepared to do it for myself. But it seems like he's the one that really needs it, that's going to be very much harder.

I mean, I figured he wouldn't be so bad since he has no developmental delays, talks like a 3 year old and is so loving. But there really is further reason for his sleep disorder and his poor digestion. I guess we found our cause. Moving metals kills your digestion. I should be happy he's moving them, ASD kids show low metals b/c they store them all.

[JaneS]

[JohnnysGirl]

um, I feel sooooo dumb. I just realized TODAY that my metal fillings are a problem....I've never questioned them before in the last 15 years (I have 4 in my back molars.) Never in a million years would have thought mercury was in my head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : WTF? My friend was chatting with me and it came up in conversation and my jaw fell open and I started searching MDC for info and the internet in general and.......... OMG, this just sucks. I was already putting together a massive research paper on my investigation into the risks of vaccinations so I could have something to show my frickin' in-laws and other people who are on our backs about not vaccinating our kiddos, and I have been kinda depressed lately about the fact that I've been fully vaxed, and my husband, and also about all the diseases on this earth for which you can't really prepare for too well.... sigh.....but now there's mercury in my head and it's all I can think about.

I'm breastfeeding a 5 month old and 28 month old... and wasn't planning on spacing any of my kids far apart and want to have many more..... now it seems there's a real problem if my metal fillings are leaking mercury slowly into my system and theirs! : Should I get them out right away or wait until they've stopped breastfeeding? I am hella fertile and was planning on CLW them and I figured there would never be a time I wasn't pg or bfing in the next decade or so.... I was bummed about not getting to tackle my adult acne because of my plans on pumping out and breastfeeding babies for the forseeable future, but this--this is so much more serious than just occasional breakouts on my face and this weird acne that arrived on the tops of my thighs after giving birth (slightly after DS#1, much worse, like regular looking acne, after DS#2)..... but I digress... seems like some info says that you do NOT mess with fillings while lactating and others say that the protocol protection measures, if used stringently, can actually prevent any mercury vapor from getting into your system during the fillings removal? I am so upset I feel like I just wanna have all those teeth jerked out and thrown in the trash, and I'll just get partial dentures to do my damn chewing. Ugh! But even extractions can be risky on a amalgam filled tooth, right? What's the answer? :

Subscribing to this thread.... please respond anyone! :

[Pigpen]

I would not wait to have them removed...if your dentist follows the protocol that JaneS linked. I would print it out and bring it to your dentist to find out if thats what she does. My dentist is removing my one amalgam filling next month and assured me that I don't need to wait until weaning b/c the chances of any of the filling being injested by me are nil, but he follows proper protocol.

PS...JaneS, how is your son doing?

[JaneS]

The answer has to be whatever you decide after a LOT of thought and research, there is just so little info available!!

Also, mercury holds on to testosterone, so I'm not surprised if that is a reason for many women's hormonal acne. I don't know if its the diet changes I've done, or having my fillings out, or both, but I never break out now, maybe one little zitlet during AF that goes away in a day.

I'm so sorry you have to go thru this, it wasn't... and isn't... fun.

Check out the 'Causes of Autism' and 'Preparing for Pregnancy' threads in Vaccinations... your best defense is superior nutrition for you and your babes to allow you to excrete the metals instead of storing them. Which means excellent digestion and tons of minerals and antioxidants.

[JaneS]

Pigpen, thanks so much for asking.

He's doing very good recently, but we've had a tough time of it. I'm scared to death of chelation for him and my first focus was his digestion before I even entertained the thought.

I think I may have finally got all the magic things together:

--Specific Carbohydrate Diet to heal his gut
--24 hr. goat's milk yogurt, raw and grassfed when I can get it
--all organic veggies and fruits and meats
--digestive enzymes
--cod liver oil for central nervous system support as well as vitamins
--mineral supplement b/c he's not eating enough of the bone broths that I make

I think I will go the homeopathic route next. Amy Lansky's articles in the current Mothering mag. were very inspiring.

This has been an interesting journey, in many ways I found knowledge that I never would have found otherwise.

[JaneS]

Two more things:

Breastfeeding is VERY important and contains nutrients that protect the babe's immune system and allow them to detoxify. For example, my DS was weaned at 26 months, his digestion got immediately worse... food that he had previously tolerated he reacted to. And here I was thinking my mercury load and crappy intestinal flora was causing the main problem! Yes, they probably were not helping but very interesting that weaning didn't help.

The other issue that may have made our case special is that at the end of my 1st trimester I had a root canal tooth pulled. I know now there was most likely mercury in the post. And it crumbled during extraction. At that time I had NO idea it could have contained mercury. Neither my OB or Dentist or Perodontist were concerned about anything other than which anesthetic to use.

Thankfully we didn't vax, at least I did that right.

[chasmyn]

So much good information, so much conflicting information!

DS is 5 months old - I'll be BF him for a long time yet. We plan on CLW.

I have SEVEN amalgams in my mouth, have for 27 years. I only recently discovered just how toxic these can be. I had an appointment for tomorrow with a holistic dentist for a consult about my amalgams - having them removed. I cancelled that appointment after reading source after source saying that amalgam removal was bad while BFing.

But then it seems that that is only if done without proper protocol? So if I have a dentist who uses the proper protocol, it can be safe? Is this right?

What the heck should I do? What will be less toxic to my beautiful DS? Getting them removed holistically now, or waiting and possibly leaching this toxic stuff into my BM for the next 2 years? I know no one can give me my answers and that I need to decide for myself, but maybe someone who has done more research than I have thus far, who has more experience, can give me some ideas? Should I go to this appointment tomorrow?

This dentist is entirely out of network and will not likely be covered at all, so I may be paying for this consultation OOP. Worth it if I intend to do the removal, not if not so much.

Any input is appreciated. This is all so frustrating!

[JohnnysGirl]

DS is 5 months old - I'll be BF him for a long time yet. We plan on CLW.

ditto!

Originally Posted by chasmyn

But then it seems that that is only if done without proper protocol? So if I have a dentist who uses the proper protocol, it can be safe? Is this right?

That's what it seems like to me.....that the excess merc. exposure can be eliminated if your dentist is a bad ass master w/ all the possible safety precautions.... So now I'm going to hunt for a good dentist in Finland to get these 4 out & replace them with....gold?

And if the exposure is nearly zero, do we need to think of chelating foods or other methods of dumping the metals that could get exposed to us during the procedure...or that's probably dangerous because if you get things wrong you just move them around, getting more into your breastmilk than if you let them sit where they've been stored long term....

[Pigpen]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

And if the exposure is nearly zero, do we need to think of chelating foods or other methods of dumping the metals that could get exposed to us during the procedure...or that's probably dangerous because if you get things wrong you just move them around, getting more into your breastmilk than if you let them sit where they've been stored long term....

That's been my understanding...that it's wise to wait on chelating until you are not nursing, and then only under the supervision of someone who knows what they're doing.
Here's the protocol...
1. Keep the fillings cool

All removal must be done under cold water spray with copious amounts of water.
Once the removal has begun, the mercury vapor will be continuously released from the tooth.

2. Use a high volume evacuator

Therefore, a high volume evacuator tip should be kept near the tooth (1/2 inch) at all times to evacuate this vapor from the area of the patient. Polishing amalgam can create very dangerous levels of mercury and should be avoided especially for the mercury toxic patient.

3. Provide an alternative air source

All patients having amalgam removed or placed should be provided with an alternative air source and instructed to not breathe through their mouth during treatment. A nasal hood such as is used with the nitrous oxide analgesia equipment is excellent. Air is best and oxygen is acceptable although not required. If just air is used it should be clean and free of mercury vapor preferably from outside the dental office.

4. Immediately dispose of the mercury alloy

Particles of mercury alloy should be washed and vacuumed away as soon as they are generated. The filling should be sectioned and removed in large pieces to reduce exposure.

At present the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT) has approved removal both with and without the use of a rubber dam. Some evidence exist to support both views since high levels of mercury and amalgam particles can be found under the dam. All members are agreed that whether or not a rubber dam is used the patient should be instructed to not breathe through their mouth or swallow the particles. Some experts feel that it is better to remove the amalgam first and then apply the dam if needed for restorative procedures.

5. Lavage, and change gloves

After the fillings have been removed, take off the rubber dam if one was used and lavage the patients mouth for at least 30 seconds with cold water and vacuum. Remove your gloves and replace them with a new pair. If a restorative procedure is next then reapply a new dam and proceed.

6. Immediately clean patient

Immediately change patient's protective wear and clean their face.

7. Consider nutritional support

Consider appropriate nutritional support before, during and after removal.

8. Keep room air pure

Install room air purifiers or ionizers and fans for everyone's well being.



My dentist will be using a rubber dam

This is a sheet of rubber which is stretched around the teeth being treated. Holes are punched which allow only the teeth to be worked on to be exposed. It is an incredibly simple way to prevent either inhalation of vapour or ingestion of amalgam particles. The use of Rubber Dam is one of the most important parts of the amalgam removal protocol. It also allows for more rapid removal of amalgam. Most patients are appreciative of the use of Rubber Dam as they do not end up with a mouth full of amalgam particles

HTH!

[MommaSid]

Chasmyn,

Did you go to your appt?

I have 8 amalgams that I want out of my mouth soo badly it's driving me nuts.. or wait maybe it's the mercury driving me nuts

anyway I have 6 month old dd that is exclusively breastfed. I was just wondering what the dentist said about you getting yoursout.
I had wanted to get mine removed when I was nursing my son, but I couldn't find a dentist to do it.
I'm going to call a dentist from the iaomt site to see what they say.

I hope they don't tell me I have to wait until I wean. THe thoght of all the merc my kids have ingested via my milk makes me ill.

please post how your apppt went.
thanks

[chasmyn]

No, I ended up not going. After more reading, I decided to go to a different dentist than the original one I had the appointment with. I'm not going to make that appointment until after I have my hair tested, though. I was reading the sites JaneS linked, and I do think it's very possible that I have mercury poisoning based on what I read - I have a lot of the symptoms stated.

I emailed the new dentist asking her thoughts on removal while nursing and she said:

Hello, thank you for your question. Since it is known that mercury is emitted during the removal process, and although most mainstream authorities consider the amount negligible, I think zero exposure needs to be the goal. It is also known that mercury accumulates in the breast milk. When careful techniques are used during the removal of the fillings to minimize your exposure to it the risk is reduced. Whether that risk still exceeds the exposure level of leaving the fillings in the teeth is not known. You must weigh the risks and benefits for yourself, and decide when you would like to proceed. I think most alternative practitioners prefer waiting until the baby is through nursing.

Way to avoid answering my question, no? But I agree with her answer - its ultimately my choice. And I DO want to minimize the risk. The question is: which is a lower risk: following safe protocol, having them removed now, or waiting another 2-3 years when he is finished nursing and let him keep getting it in my breastmilk?

My thought is that with the protocol minimizing exposure, wouldn't that be less of a risk than continuing to BF however much comes out in my milk? I need to find out more of the cellular level reactions, I think, to know really. And if it were less of a risk, why would "most alternative practitioners advise against it"?

Is there any way to have breastmilk tested to see how much is leaching out into it? JaneS, do you know? Or anyone? I'd gladly pay for that test. If I could really weigh the possible outcomes of one against the other...but then time is of the essence, too, isn't it?

[MommaSid]

Hi Chasmyn,

Well Ihave an appt in March.. the soonest availale to see the dentist who would be removing my malgams. I told the receptionist that I was nursing and would that be a problem. He said that "typically, we do not remove fillings from nursing moms" ok so wahtever typically means. Anyway.. this is weighing so heavily upon me. My ds who is almost 2.5 is speech delayed and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the merc. I nursed him until he was 16months. I had wanted to get my fillings replaced after I finished nursing him and I wasn't able because I got preg with #2.

So I am also interested in getting some testing for heavy metals done doe ds, myself and my 6 month old

Are you going to do it through the data dr? I would love to get my milk tested as well. Everythign I have read on the internet doesn't get real specific about concentrations of Hg in B milk.

I can't stand having these things in my mouth..

[JaneS]

I know exactly how y'all feel!! It's a total mind-f*&k thinking about this.

I think most alternative practioners are not familiar with IAOMT safe protocol either. However, there is only one study that I'm aware of testing their method... and I have NOT read the entire study to examine their methods more closely.

Amalgam Removal with Patient Protection

This study measures the mercury level when amalgams are removed following the IAOMT protocols presented above.

Molin, M., Berglund, J.R., Mackert, J.R., "Kinetics of Mercury in Blood and Urine after Amalgam Removal." J. Dental Research, 74:420,IADR abstract 159, (1995).

ABSTRACT: Even through a number of studies have not been able to reveal any correlation between subjective symptoms and amalgam load there still are speculations whether patients with subjective symptoms related by the patients themselves to their amalgam fillings could have a changed pattern of elimination of mercury. The aim of the present investigation was to study the elimination half-time of mercury in plasma, erythrocytes and urine over an extended period of time after amalgam removal in a group of 10 patients with subjective symptoms by the patients themselves referred to their amalgam fillings and a group of 8 healthy subjects. The average number of occlusal and total amalgam surfaces in the patient group were 13.0 (range 4-20) and 44.4 (range 24-68), respectively. Corresponding figures in the control group were 12.9 (range 10-16) and 40.9 (range 24-63).

The amalgam removal using rubber dam, water spray cutting and high volume vacuum evacuator, was carried out at one and the same time. Blood and urine samples were collected at two occasions before the amalgam removal, then blood was collected at thirty two occasions and urine at forty three occasions during the following year. The mercury content was analyzed by CVAAS technique.

The measured P-, Ery- and U-Hg concentrations before amalgam removal were slightly higher in the control group 6.43.3 nmol/L, 19.46.6 nmol/L, and 2.71.3 nmol/nmol creatinine respectively than in the symptom group 5.61.8 nmol/L, 14.88.8 nmol/L, and 1.60.9 nmol/nmol creatinine respectively.

The Hg-concentrations did not significantly increase in the two groups after amalgam removal. Six days after the removal the plasma mean concentration was significantly decreased at P level and ten days after the decrease was at a permanent P level. The mean Ery-Hg level was significantly decreased after eleven days (p), a level that remained stable for the rest of the year. The mean U-Hg level was significantly decreased one month after the removal and after six months the mean level was reduced with 80 % compared to the initial level in both groups.

The conclusion to be drawn for the present study is that the symptom group did not have a changed pattern of elimination of mercury compared to the healthy group.

DAMS site: www.amalgam.com

I don't know how to test breastmilk, maybe call www.directlabs.com and ask? They are a clearinghouse for many different labs and have a dr. on staff to advise and authorize the tests you can order yourself. Of course the thing is also to think about what exactly is the acceptable range... and whether it varies depending on AM or PM milk, foremilk or hindmilk, that sort of thing.

I wonder if this has been discussed before on the Yahoo groups... Autism-Mercury and Adult Metal Chelation are the 2 I'm familiar with. You can search Autism-Mercury here:
http://www.onibasu.com/

Absolutely stop all hot liquids and gum chewing b/c those can increase mercury vapor significantly according to studies.

SCIENTISTIC REFERENCES RELATING TO IMPROVED HEALTH
AS A RESULT OF MERCURY AMALGAM DENTAL FILLING REMOVAL
AND LINKED DISEASES AND SYMPTOMS

The following published scientific references have been compiled by Bernie Windham, a chemical engineer who has spent years researching the hazardous health effects of mercury amalgam poisoning:

1. For a period of one week following amalgam removal the levels of mercury increase approximately 30%. Within 2 weeks levels reduce significantly. [82, 89]. (Symptoms may initially increase before improving.)

2. Removal of amalgam fillings resulted in significant reduction in body burden and mercury in body waste [75,82,88,89,93,95,96,115,200, 316,57].

3. Total reduction of mercury in blood and urine levels is often reduced by 80% within a few months after removal. [82,89,93,96,200,316,57].

http://www.toxicteeth.org/RemovalResults.cfm

Kellymom does has a page on this:
http://www.kellymom.com/health/chemical/mercury.html

I don't necessarily agree with everything she says but it's interesting to note that Hale warns against removal.

I just don't think there is enough data right now to be able to make a clear decision, you gotta go with your heart and your intuition and just trust that you are doing the right thing.

And have an excellent diet!! Selenium and vitamin C especially b/c both mitigate the damage Hg can cause.

[JaneS]

MommaSid,

Regarding your speech delayed DS, does he have any other symptoms? Such as digestive that are similar to ASD kids?

Hair testing is very simple to do, it's worth looking into if you are concerned.
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

Do you give him cod liver oil? Don't think I'm nuts the proper fats are essential for brain development ... omega 3's have been shown to help dyslexics and ADD.

[MommaSid]

Hi Jane,

My DS has no other issues as far as digestion goes. He has no allergies and has been taking flax seed and nordic naturas for the omegas.

He has just begun "therapy" through our states early intervention program and we are hoping that will help. He says a few words, but nothing consistently. Although he seems tro be picking up new words every day.

We are hoping that he is just a late talker. He has never been vaxed.

I will be anxious to see what this dentist has to say. I got his nme fro the iaomt site. I hate that I have to wait until mid march.

I hear you about the hot food/drinks/gum thing. I don't chew gum and probably won't be eating or drinking anything hot. I even hate brushing my teeth now.

We see a naturopath and I may call her to see what she has to say about it. THaks for the inks about the hair test. I'mscared to get it done.

[JaneS]

[chasmyn]

I'm still researching, am currently reading Andrew Hall Cutler's book. I hope it helps me get more clear. I think I'll be doing the hair testing, too.

[cabbage]

Hi, Mommas,

I am terrified too about all that amalgam business. I have quite a bit of silver filling which are in a bad shape and my baby is 2 years old and still nursing big time. I went to the holistic dentist from IAOMT. For some reason it 's still not clear to me what exactly his position is on nursing and amalgam removal. (I actually think I have some symptoms of mercury poisoning - I feel I can't think straight and it's very hard to concentrate, plus he was not very good at explaining things either). He told me that they don't remove amalgamas on nursing moms, but when I asked what if I just pull those teeth out altogether he said that because the "source" would be removed the mercury would be excreting through my breastmilk more than now. I don't really get it - it really doesn't make sense to me.
He strongly advised to wean, he said that after 12 mo there is no nutritional value in breastmilk anymore. Right........ Although he seems like a good doctor, who just is not good at explaining things. He did a very thorough exam and found a lot of gum infections as well.
I soooo not ready to wean the baby and she is definetely not either. I just feel SOOO sad even thinking about weaning her.
But I am totally at loss which is worse 1 - to stop bf and do the work, 2- to continue bf and pull out those teeth exposing baby to elevated Hg (according to the Dr) 3- do nothing, still exposing her to Hg and wait until she is done nursing.
By the way, as MommaSid's baby, she is also speech delayed and in the Early Intervention Prgrm.
The other problem is that she became a very picky eater and very often she just nibbles lightly on smth and demands instead to nurse. Is it called smth like a food strike?
Anyway, he recommended me some books, he said very good and scientific, well researched ones by Sam Ziff and Dr. Michael F. Ziff "Infertility and Birth defects. Is mercury from silver fillings an unsuspected cause?" and "Silver Dental Fillings- The toxic time bomb." I got them and it looks like the are great books with lots of info on mercury testing, removal and etc.
I really want to get that stuff out of my mouth as soon as I can. Does anybody has some info on pulling out the whole tooth vs just a filling? Does it really makes a difference in regards to vapor and breastmilk mercury content?

Hugs to you Mommas,

[JaneS]

Cabbage

RE: source of mercury going up once fillings removed

He is sort of right. All of the studies I've read show that the blood level goes down for several months after removal... and then the body starts dumping its load, so the amounts go back up again. This is why I weaned my DS. All the bodies organs gradually release the stored mercury, except for the brain which tends to hold onto it unless chelated out.

I haven't seen anything re: pulling teeth vs. drilling out. Obviously the vapor would be less of an issue. But the thing is that the teeth/fillings could crumble too I imagine, this is the problem I had with my root canal removal.

It is a hard decision, you've got to just read as much as you can... know that one author/dentist/expert doesn't necessarily have all the right answers... and sit with all of it for a while. Sometimes I feel like I made the wrong decisions, but it was going with the info I had at the time and heaven knows I couldn't have tried harder!

Let me know how those Ziff books are, they look interesting.

What's "smth"?

I can't say for sure re: speech delay, but my gut feeling is that it is a similar form of nutritional/immune system damage as spectrum disorders. I say this with the perspective that my DS's issues are the central nervous system/sleep and digestion ... that is how his body ended up expressing the insult to his immune system.

The is not to say your little has been damaged by mercury. I know this is my guy's issue, we've had the Hair Elements test done and analyzed it. So maybe that is a good place to start to help you decide.

Right now, I think the one thing that will absolutely help is superior nutrition. Which in fact, helps the body detox as well. I fully believe in breastmilk's benefits: my DS cannot even handle half the foods he used to eat (raw fruit/rice) while bf'ing, obviously it was very much protecting him. But then again, maybe he is dumping his body's load of mercury and that is what is making his digestion worse b/c it comes out thru the gut. Don't know for sure.

We mamas have to go on our intution and trust in it.