night weaning... why, when and how? - Page 2

[velcromom]

Originally Posted by Mother Mel

I am curious about "the No Cry Sleep Solution" though; anyone out there have any comments?

I thought it had a lot of great ideas, I didn't use the entire program because I wasn't really wanting to nightwean but I was getting tired from the amount of sleep I was missing. I found the Pantley Pull-Off to be very helpful in decreasing the time it took to nurse ds at night - if all he needed was help getting back to sleep, it was a good way to unlatch him without rousing him again after just a couple of minutes of nursing. Compared to waiting 15 -20 min for him to be deeply asleep so I could put him down, it was a big improvement. Especially when he was still waking 4-5 times at night.

[Mother Mel]

Thanks for your input velcromom!
PS - do you sell your soap in Canada?

[mama_kmb]

_

[zenfulmama]

I'm at a loss here. My 3 year old ds is completely weaned. he weaned at 20 months when I was pregnant and my milk supply dried up due to night weaning/pregnancy...now he still night wakes 2-3 times which disturbs my 13 month old who is becoming very demanding--crying for milk loudly and waking everyone when I am not as forth coming as he would like--i'm trying to shorten his nursing times and make sure he doesn't fall asleep latched on. i have become sleep deprived and generally exhausted. my eldest keeps the youngest up with his awakenings from 10-2, then toddler ds wakes every 45 minutes from 2-5 or so..Okay this isn't written very well, but i'm too tired to make any more of an effort. any suggestions? i'm reading the no-cry sleep solution right now which doesn't seem to offer any support for when you have two small children.
Also Ian becomes very upset when tanner is in our bed (where he has always slept) or up playing when they are supposed to both be in bed. Ian wants to do everything his younger brother does but knows he shouldn't: i.e play on hearth, climb on table, get up and play and run around at 10:00 at night?!?! help i need to find some balance here between the two boys and everyone in our family needs to sleep

[Michelle Leigh]

Originally Posted by willow83

But they also told me to stop feeding her at night because when she gets teeth it will cause rotting for them to sleep with milk on their gums. Has anyone not night weened and found this to be true??

My 1st dd nursed on demand (through the night, too) until she was 17 months. She's now 5 and has had no problems with her teeth.

[stafl]

Then my doula said something that had never occured to me before: some kids won't wean themselves until they're in school..... or older.

mama_k, many members here at mdc are perfectly fine with nursing their children until they are "school" age.

The first night was bad, lots of crying, asking for OSH (his "baby" word for BF, also says, "Nurse." ), lots of begging, "Pease, pease, mama! Osh! osh!" Dh just held him, offered a sippy cup of water and stuck it out.

Many of us would also never ever leave our babies crying their heads off when all that would calm them is to nurse. If it worked for you, I guess that's fine, but it's not the solution many of us would ever choose to make for our children. It's not about feeling guilty, it's about respecting our children's needs. Nursing is about more than just the breastmilk. Comfort is also a need, and I choose to meet that need in my children no matter when or where they need it. Even the experts who do give out nightweaning advice tell us to wait until our children are at least 18-24 months old first.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=243037
Here are some great links to more information about gentle nighweaning.

[carrietorgc]

I gotta add that if at any point dd had become really upset when we nightweaned that i would have postponed until she was better able to cope. Also, it can help to see how the toddler is acting during the day - if clingy, asking to nurse more, etc, then perhaps they aren't ready to nightwean.

Now that dd is almost weaned due to pregnancy and no milk, I miss it! Poor thing, i am chasing her around all the time asking if she wants to nurse :LOL

[TiredX2]

mama kmb---

WELCOME to MDC!!!!

I wanted to address one specific part of your post:

But come to think of it, I'd never met a woman who told the story of her kid going from 20X per day to Zippy. No, it seemed as if my child would have to be helped along b/c, if not, his mommy might have to be institutionalized.

Generally, if a young child went from 20X a day to nothing that would be considered a nursing strike (if an older child had set a "date" to wean, they *could* do that, but I have never heard of an older child who was nursing that much decide to just cut off).

Anyway, most children who are allowed to wean themselves do not go from 20 to 0, well, not all at once at least. Instead they go from 20 to 19 to 15 to 12 to 10 to 8 to.... to twice a day, to every day, to every few days, to maybe once a week to .... What happened? They're Weaned!

As for when children usually wean. Biologically, it is average for children to wean from 2.5-7. There will be children who wean before that (though it is generally a nursing strike and/or encouraged by the parents if the child is under 18-24 months) and children who wean after but the majority will wean sometime in that time frame (I have heard that in the US 2-4 is very common).

Once again, welcome to MDC and I hope to "see" you around

[doctorjen]

Every couple months I have been evaluating our night-nursing situation, and I've continued to decide not to nightwean. I think our situation is fairly uncommon around MDC, though. I work full-time, and am often gone some pretty crazy hours. I also have 4 children, and the 3 older ones are all school age and pretty busy with activities. My little dd (20 1/2 mos now) kind of gets the short end of the stick because of that. She's still nursing at night, most nights twice between when I go to bed and when we wake up (but usually one of those is an early morning nurse. She nurses much more some nights, and has slept through a number of times, too. She barely drinks any non-mama milk, and won't drink my milk from anything but the tap anymore. I can see that she has a real need for nightnursing. Some days, I am gone 14 hours! If she didn't nurse at night, I think she'd be weaned by now. Also, she clearly nurses more at night when something is going on - like she's ill, or teething, or had a stressful day. And those few times she's had unrestricted access to me during the day, she tends to sleep longer at night. When we were on vacation in Oct, she slept through the whole week! (And nursed happily a gazillion times a day!)
So for now, I'll continue to nurse at night as often as my babe wants. I know she'll be too big to fit in my lap before I know what happened! (The perspective you get from having a 5' 11" still-growing teenager in your house is useful sometimes.)

[Mama2ABCD]

doctorjen, is that what is referred to as "reverse cycle" nursing? i read about that a few years ago and it seemed it was not uncommon for nurslings to nurse mostly at night because their moms worked away from them during the day. i can see where you would want to hold onto that, but as you might not get the sleep you should. then, having children, who ever really does?

[mama_kmb]

Dear Stafl:
I'm sorry you felt so compelled to judge and criticize my decision to night wean my son. Clearly being supportive is not the type of moderation you practice.
If you would have read my entry more carfefully you might have seen that I "didn't leave my baby to cry his head off" but rather let him be comforted by his father-a suggestion of Dr. Sears. And while it's fine that many choose to BF their kids until they are 5,6 or 7 yeras old, I choose not to.
In addition, I mentioned that I had been suffering physically and emotionally as a result of on-going fatigue and illness. You were quick to judge me, twist my words and depict me as a terrible mother, while ignoring truths and other important aspects of my story (i.e. ilness). Also ignored were the description of how my son understood his new nighttime situation, and his accompanying pride, as well as the added benefits to our relationship.
If I would have known that MDC moderators were so negative, instead of supportive, I might not have joined. Frankly I'm shocked that a person in your position can't offer information and encouragement without being so mean. You should be ashamed and embarrassed for posting a response that clearly demonstrated you didn't carefully read my story. Instead, you jumped to conclusions, made assumptions and gave me a slap in the face of a welcome!

I have received a much more positive response regarding my decision to night wean from my local LLL, doula, and fellow AP friends. Perhaps it's better to stay close to those groups instead of reaching out and chancing an encounter with a person such as yourself.

I'll be deleting my entry while I contemplate the value of MDC and its accompanying "moderators." In the meantime, thanks for reminding me that these types of forums often reveal your type of personality: judgemental & critical. Boo, Hiss!

P.S.
Why would I take a (book) suggestion from a person who just insulted and put me down? Moderator you are not.

[mama_kmb]

Thanks for your positive support! I guess what I was trying to express was my overwhelming fatigue, the idea that I thought my son (at 16 mos) would be nursing less than when he was an infant, and that I was surprised that many children don't wean until much, much later. Thanks again.

[stafl]

I hope you are still around and reading this thread. I honestly never meant any judgment or insult to you. *I* felt personally insulted by your post (the one you have since deleted), and probably did respond a bit harshly to it. If you would like to discuss my actions further, please send me a private message, as this sort of thing needs to be handled off the boards. I did want to publicly apologize for hurting your feelings. That was never my intent.

I volunteered to be a moderator here. It doesn't make anything I post any better than any advice anyone else might post. I'm just a mama, and I'm still learning about parenting as I go along, just like everyone else.

[velcromom]

Originally Posted by doctorjen

Every couple months I have been evaluating our night-nursing situation, and I've continued to decide not to nightwean. I think our situation is fairly uncommon around MDC, though.


(The perspective you get from having a 5' 11" still-growing teenager in your house is useful sometimes.)

I have done the same, I have not nightweaned, my only influence to ds2's nighttime habits has been to shorten night nursings but not limit their frequency. (Strangely enough, I also have a teenager around the house!) Now that ds2 is two, he's begun sleeping thru the night and nightweaning is no longer an issue.

I have always felt with ds2 that any changes I make should be well recieved by both parties, and anything that was met with fierce resistance he was not ready for. In hindsight, I feel very good about having allowed the natural progression to take place. It's been very hard at times but sometimes, a small change was all I needed to lighten the burden enought to carry on. I am lucky to be in a position mentally and physically and time-wise to feel comfortable with waiting for him to be ready not to nurse at night. In another situation, I very well may have felt less able to do so and needed much more support to get through the rough phases.


Well it is too bad the thread took a bit of a negative turn, I know that we are all very protective of our ideas about what we think is best for our beloved littles. One of the reasons I come here is that I get energy for my way of parenting thru the support of other moms who like me, strive to meet their dc's needs thru attachment parenting. I can understand how a story about nightweaning that involved "lots of crying" can cause confusion and lead other members to clarify the nature of our gathering here. I hope that readers of this thread will not feel that these types of forums actually do attract hateful personalities. We gather here in support of one another on our parenting journeys and while we all understand that there are times a mom is stretched too far and needs to make changes in order to preserve her health and/or sanity, we believe there are ways to do it that are respectful to both mother and child and lead neither one to do lots of crying. I enjoy coming here and seeing the creative and gentle solutions mamas come up with, and am inspired to remain on my AP path when my strength falters and I am not able to perceive all my choices. Another mama may see where I could take a different approach and I hope they do point it out to me if that is the case.

Ok off my soapbox for the moment. Carry on mamas!

[aimeemac]

Letting go of worry......

Thank you all for your posts. I have been feeling guilty (don't know why) about my 26 month old still occasionally night nursing and not wanting to fall asleep with a little "milkies". For some awful reason, I feel a lot of pressure from outside sources to wean and especially at night. But, in my heart I don't feel it is necessary at this point.....you know "mother's intuition". Dd did have a problem with her molar enamel not forming, so she did have a filling at 21 months, but her other teeth have developed normally and are pearly white! We brush before she falls asleep and after she eats, give her tea tree oil, and calcerea phosporica. I still have this voice in the back of my head pressuring me to wean and from family, etc.

I guess my question is, how do you just go with your gut and let go of the guilt and worry you have about such parenting?

Any suggestions would be great!
Aimee

[twilight girl]

Nightweaned for good at 2 yrs. plus some months. Just decided one night I'd had enough. She started rooting, I turned her away, spooned with her and she fell back to sleep. That was it.

I find waiting until DD is ready for something greatly facilitates doing it successfully!

Good luck,
Judi

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

Sorry, it's late and I'm exhausted, so I didn't get to read the other replies before posting but wanted to respond.

why did some of you decide to nightwean?
Because I could no longer handle spending and hour nursing DD to sleep. My boobs were killing me and I missed my quality time with DH. She was 25 mos. old and I've only weaned her from first falling to sleep nursing. Nightwakings she still nurses - she's just too out of it and upset to comprehend right now.

how would you know if the child is ready to nightwean and how did you do it?
I hung on so long because I just didn't feel she was ready. But for the past couple of months I knew she was only still nursing to sleep because she could - not because she needed to. I was going to do the Dr. Jay Gordon method. However, there's is no way in hell DD would let me take my nipple out before she was completely asleep. She'd fully wake up and be screaming if I tried to pull a fast one on her. So, it was all or nothing.

I nursed her on the couch before bed. Our only bedtime routine, which was put in place just before nightweaning, is to read books in bed. When I turned out the light, I just refused - telling her she could have "milk" in the morning when the sun came up. The first night was really tough. I felt horrible, but I knew that if I caved I was doomed. She would put her hands on my face crying, "please Mommy, please!". She pulled at my shirt - the whole deal. It was a tantrum, though, not her crying out of having a true need. BUT, she finally settled down and was asleep in 25 minutes. I was ecstatic! Afterall, we were averaging one hour with nursing. My big mistake the first couple of nights was that I accommodated her distractions to sleep - she wanted a bottle of milk, her teeth hurt, she needed a certain doll, she needed to sleep with Daddy, and on, and on.

The 2nd night was totally different. She asked to nurse and when I refused, she fussed about it a bit, but then settled down. It has taken me an average of 45 minutes to get her to sleep in the first month. She didn't ask to nurse after the 3rd or 4th night, but it just has been taking her a long time to fall asleep. I think part of that is that she naps too late in the day and for too long. When she doesn't nap or has a short one, she's out in 5 or 10 minutes at bedtime.

How has his/her sleeping habits changed with nightweaning?
Now, after a couple of books she tells ME it's time to turn out the light! She is sleeping better - less nightwakings and many more nights of sleeping all the way through. It's wonderful! I don't regret waiting this long and having the nursings and nightwakings in the past. We were at a point that I knew it was the right time.

Also, she fell asleep much faster and easier when at my mom's one night.

Is it possible to nightwean and continue cosleeping?
We haven't cosleep since Halloween, just before her 2nd bday. I know it's possible, but would think it would be much harder. When DD wakes at night, I go in to nurse her back to sleep. When I fall asleep nursing her, she's wakes several times and comes over to me to nurse - same when she's in our bed the whole night. When I don't fall back asleep and return to my own, she usually makes it through the entire rest of the night w/out waking.

My next step is to get her to fall alseep w/out me lying next to her. Yikes!

[mom2threenurslings]

Nightweaning (in *our* family):

Why? I don't know. I've never seen the need (even tandem nightnursing), as I believe in CLW/natural weaning, which to me means that my children nurse whenever they need to, day or night. Night nursing, for the most part, is a need, not a want. I believe in meeting my children's needs, including (and very importantly) nursing. If I don't feel like nursing my child at night (my issue, not my child's!), I try rubbing her back or saying that it's time for sleeping ... if she rolls over and goes back to sleep, then she doesn't need to, if she fusses, then she needs to and I nurse her.

When? My children will nightwean when they're ready...when their need to nurse at night disappears.

How? Ask my kids!

I understand that some moms need to nightwean so that they can be rested and happy moms. I'm not saying that CLW, non-nightweaning, etc. is for everyone. The above is just what is right for our family. (And believe me, I've had times when I've wished my child would nightwean ... night nursing is definitely not always easy!)