Lets talk solar power...

[Gemini]

I'd love to go solar for our house, but just don't know much about it. Do tell what you know.

[momto l&a]

We have it on our camp trailer and love it. We bought the tailer with the solar already done by some old man who lived off grid for 10 years in this trailer. Its a 1,500 watt system. 'i think' its 1500 for sure and i think watt is the word i want

We would also love to go off grid but the initial cost is horrifying IMO. But then the electric bill we get each month isnt so great either.

There is a guy who lives near us who does solar systems so we could pick his brains and also www.homesteading.com has some helpful threads with links to helpful sites.

[homemademomma]

there is lots of DYI solar systems that are really cheap and you can use them permenently or while you are setting up a more complex, permenent system.

[aprons_and_acorns]

:

dh and I are planning to go solar after we build our "dream" house in the next few years. I'm pushing for a geodesic dome because I have always been attracted to round houses and I don't want to live in a yurt, lol.

I have so much to learn so I'm subscrining here.

[rainbowmoon]

I dream of solar powering

is it really possible to DIY?

[applejuice]

I know I paid $2,500.00 for a solar unit to simply warm my water in 1983. I got a tax credit that year; big deal. I have since dismantled it since no plumber in the area knows how to repair it, and this is in Los Angeles. It also ruined my roof and I have replaced my roof four times in twenty years since it wears out the roof twice as fast as if it were not there. This is because the pump kicks on when the temperature outside drops to forty degrees Fahrenheit to keep the water from freezing in the already insulated pipes, but water then washes out of the system and off the roof which wears out one part of the roof faster than the other sides since it is getting more wear. $2,500.00 and it only lasted ten years...a regular hot water heater lasts the same amount of time and costs less that one fifth of that. The gas bill would not even come close to making it worthwhile. I would have rather had something that could warm my home and help warm my food, not just warm the water.

It was a horrible waste of $ and time and energy.

The sales techniques used by the salesman were investigated by the federal government, I know, since they were so threatening and forceful. This was true in my situation. I was nursing my newborn son, and the @$$hole would not leave ... he told us about the 72 hour cancellation clause, then added that he has a family and would not like to think that we are wasting HIS time -!

[rainbowmoon]

I think the going rate here starts at about $10,000 to solar power your home.

[DesireeH]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=241821

Here is another thread where some of the mamas were explaining more about solar power to me.

[MamaMonica]

Gemini, are you interested in a grid-tied system- like for a house in town where you sell excess power you generate back to the ultility?

To get more information, calculate how many watts you use to get your kW hours. This is something dh did- he has a little meter he got and hooks it up to appliances to find out how many watts each is using. You can also just look at your electric bill and see what youre using for a basic number!

Solar panels are about $4 a watt, so if you use that number and how many watts you use you can figure out how much panels will cost. Then there is the invereter cost, installation, other accessories.

We have an avg. house (on the low end of cosumption due to conservation) and use 2.4 kW hours so we'd need about $10,000 in panels alone plus $2-4000 in accessories for a basic system. This wouldn't provide enough power for us during low-sulight months- we's need a 5 kW or $25,000 ($20,000 in panels) system to do that.

Applejuice- the solar water heaters have gotten much better. That sounds terrible.

The Real Goods catalog has info.- they also a have a solar book. We had it form the library and it's pretty good.

[boatbaby]

I am cc'ing this from the Earth Friendlt tribe... more to come

Here is some cool info on solar houses for ya.

Did you know that enough sunlight hits the continental USA in one day to power the whole countries needs for one year? We just need to harvest it!

There seem to be two major myths about solar.
(1) It's expensive and (2) It's ugly.
Well neither are true.

(1) Yes there is an upfront cost in putting PV's (photovoltaics or solar panels) on your roof. But it also costs to put shingles on your roof. Or wood on your floor. Or a big screen TV in your living room. The difference is, the solar panels will eventaully start paying you back! In many states you can "net meter" which means you actually sell your excess power back to the city grid. Then when you are not producing power (at night, during a storm) you have "credit" and take take from the grid for free. Eventually your utility bills will dwindle to near nothing. Will your shingle roof, hardwood floor, or big screen TV to that for ya?

(2) Solar houses do NOT have to be crunchy looking. And the PV's on the roof don't have to stick out like a sore thumb. Here is a link for a really great ALL SOLAR house in MAINE. I had the opportunity to do a story on these guys, they are a fantastic example of "normal people" living the solar life. And their house as you can see is extremely traditional. So much so that their neighbors are former occupants of the White House, and still no complaints about the solar roof.

Another extrordinary example of stylish solar is a competition held every few years by the Department of Energy for university students. I was lucky enough to do a documentary about this competition and really get inside.
It's called The Solar Decathlon
20-something universities have to deisgn and build a completely solar home on the National Mall in DC. They have 3 days to build it, and they have to "live" in it for a week proving the house works in 10 different categories (maintaining a certain indoor temp, lighting, cooking 3 meals a day, doing so much laundry a day, running a home business, etc etc)
Chekc out the houses the different universities built and you will see creative and gorgeous examples of what's possible. If you're in the DC area, go to the competition this October.

No this post is not going to make any of you go out and build a solar house. But I wanted to plant the seed and show you what's possible.

I'll do a post on Passive solar, which is how you can take advantage of the sun at home, later. Babe needs me now.

(sorry if this is dull and rambling to any of you)

[boatbaby]

Passive Solar

Another cc from the tribe: Sorry if this is a repeat for some of you...

Ok ALL ABOUT PASSIVE SOLAR (until baby wakes up)

Having a solar powered house means you have PV's (photovoltaics also called solar panels) on you house or propoerty somewhere and you are harnessing the power of the sun and ACTIVELY trandforming it into electricity you can use.

PASSIVE SOLAR simply means using the sun/ shade patterns of your home to help make your house more comfortable and energy efficient. Back in the old days ALL houses were built passively, before we had air conditioning and such. The builder would know where the sun rises and sets on the property, where the prevailing breezes came from, and so on and built the house to take advantage of nature. Today we just build 'em fast and furious.

BUT there are still passive solar strategies you can employ (and you probably already DO employ) everyday. For example... in the summer, close the shades when the sun is shining in the house. This way you don't heat the place up so much and run up your air conditioning. In the winter, open everything up and invite the light in, use the sun's warmth as much as possible. If you plan on doing any renovating, consider eaves off of your roof that are at the right angle (you can look up on the internet the angles for your region) to let more sun in durin the winter and block it out during the summer. Also seal up any and all drafts. Make your house tight. Pull back your carpet and look at where the sheetrock meets the floor, I'll bet you see a gap. You can seal that up with expandable foam insulation or any variety of stuff. Take off the grates to your heating vents. More gaps to seal. You shoudl invite the air in when you want it, don't let it be an uninvited guest.

Also don't waste energy by turning on lights during the day, find ways to use daylight instead.

Another cool thing the Solar Decathlon kids did was water tubes. They bought and/or built huge, long cylidrical clear plastic tubes of water. They set them in the window where the most sun came in. The water tubes absorbed heat energy from the sun during the day and then radiated the warmth out into the house at night! Here is a LINK to their web page with some passive solar strategies listed. I think this should link you to a picture of the Solar Water Tubes

Most engineers would say you can't have a solar POWERED house without first having a PASSIVE solar house. Otherwise you are defeating yourself. You want the house to be as naturally efficient as possible before you start trying to harness and collect solar energy.

If BUILDING a house, THERMAL MASS is key! You want walls that help you maintain temperature. You've probably heard of the term "R-Value"? That is a way of expressing thermal mass. A piece of sheetrock doesn't have much R-value. A thick earth wall has ALOT. Or concrete (or ICF's , insulated concrete forms). Or SIPS (structurally insulated panels).

Hope this helps. I am just a rookie who learned all of this by doing documentaries, so if someone out there with more knowledge can contribute or correct, go for it!

[melissa17s]

Boat Baby, I saw a similar passive solar technique to the tubes of water in an old issue of Natural Home. It encourage collecting transluscent glass bottles putting them on shelves in front of south facing windows during the day to help collect the warmth of the sun. Thanks for the info, though about passive solar.

[Gale Force]

We're hoping to install some solar panels within the next year and are also working on some passive solar techniques. Our house is 100 years old, in the boonies, and has an electric well. When electric is out, so is the water. That's our first goal -- to have enough to run the pump. A solar pump won't work since the well is about 250 feet deep.

Anyhoo, following this thread...

[IslandMamma]

Boatbaby, awesome posts!!!

I just want to second so much of what is here... you can do it! In my region, solar hot water heating is the most bang for your buck, so to speak. They are SO much better these days than when Applejuice's system was installed.

For DIY solar, Backwoods is a great resource. They don't cover grid-tied systems, however. Call your local solar folks and ask them ways to start small!

Full disclosure -- my DH (and myself, in a supporting role) run a renewable energy business. We live entirely off-grid, and love it!

Unfortunately I don't have as much posting time these days, but I'd be happy to answer any specific PM's.

[applejuice]

Locally, the Motel 6 two blocks from me was built in 1981 with full solar panels all over the roof...

They were taken off last year...they ruined the roof, never worked properly, and it was simply too expensive for the Accor Corporation to repair or replace them...

[MamaMonica]

There is a guy near us with a solar house and he also had problems with leakage on his roof- but the company came out and replaced pipes and now things works great, he says. It took a few tries. I think there are still some bugs to be worked out- especially with materials behaving differently in different climates.

[IslandMamma]

*Islandmamma's DH here... first MDC post*

I just want to clarify that solar hot water systems (solar thermal) are very different from solar electric (photovoltaics). The bad experiences that folks had with leaks, pipes and pumps are all on solar hot water systems. Back in the late '70's early 80's there were federal tax credits available for solar hot water systems. Unfortunately the seemingly "easy money" of the tax credits inspired a lot of unscrupulous and inexperienced people to get into the solar business. Many poorly designed and poorly installed systems were built and most of those either never really worked or failed dramatically (leaky roofs, mostly). That experience soured the general public to the idea of solar energy on rooftops. Then Reagan came into office, removed Carter's solar collectors off the Whitehouse and ended the tax credits. The solar industry never had a chance to really develop and we are still to this day trying to overcome the bad image that the Carter-era solar thermal industry created. THat said, I have serviced several early 80's solar hot water systems that were well installed and designed, and for the most part they are working fine.

[Nemmer]

I too would love to have a solar powered house someday... :

[velcromom]

A question about switching to solar electric - I have heard some say that converting your entire home to solar increases the property value considerably. Not a bad thing in itself, but they go on to explain that such an increase resulted in an extremely high jump in property taxes, so that while they saved by being off the grid, the net savings did not seem to justify the expense. Is this a realistic perspective, or is there a way to go all solar that will not result in higher property taxes?

[DesireeH]

I think it depends on your state. In California your property taxes do not go higher based on solar energy. You also get a 7.5% state credit on top of the 2.80 per KW rebate.

I have a question for those with solar energy, how much did your systems cost? I just got a quote today and it seems awfully high. It is 36,000 but with an almost 12,000 dollar rebate but 24,000 is what is left (with a 7.5% state credit so an extra 2000 off) but I would still have to pay 22,000 out of pocket. If it is that high, we cant really do it right now. I could spend 15K tops. Does anyone know if that is doable? They said it was for a 4.9 KW and an inverter that transfers d/c to a/c 97% or something? I guess I just need more info, what do I REALLY need.........any book recommendations or anything how I can find out what I really need?