My first witnessing of CIO

[MarineWife]

An acquaintance of mine, not a friend, is in Hawaii with her dh who comes her on business every year so we planned to get together. She has a baby who is about 14 months old. We had plans to hang out on the beach all day but it was raining so we ended up in her hotel room. She said she needed to get her baby to take a nap. It was late so I thought I'd try to see if my baby would fall asleep as well. While I proceeded to lay down on the bed to nurse my babe she stuck her baby in a crib and walked out to the balcony and shut the door. The poor little girl was in there fussing and moaning and flippiner herself around. My baby would not settle down because he knew she was there so I finally took him out on the balcony as well. This lady decided she'd try to get her baby to go to sleep so I thought, good, she's not going to just leave her there. Well, she was in there for maybe 5 minutes and came back out and said her baby was fighting it so she would "force her down." Yes, that is a direct quote. She shut the glass door and said her baby was probably crying but she couldn't hear it and smiled. I just felt awful.

This lady has been sleep training her baby since she was born and says she was sleeping through the night at 4 months. However, her baby was in a crib in another room all the way down the hall (it's a big house). After witnessing what this poor little baby was doing in the crib when her mom left, I don't understand how that lady can consider that success. The baby was still crying herself to sleep a year later! It makes me wonder if she really sleeps through the night or if mom and dad just can't hear her because they are so separated.

[mommyofshmoo]

Yeah, my CIO friends "put their baby down for a nap" and I can hear her crying on the baby monitor- but she's upstairs and far away, and they are downstairs with a monitor that makes the cries sound mechanical.

I can't remember hyow old their dd was, but at least 8 months or so. They claim she's been sleeping all night in her own bed since a few weeks old or something. I seriously doubt it's true. I think they are just not listening.

All the people I know who CIO admit it gets messed up by travel, camping, illness. All this "It worked in three days" stuff is bullsh*t.

[mistymama]

That must have been so hard to see.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by mommyofshmoo

All this "It worked in three days" stuff is bullsh*t.

Exaclty! Maybe that's how long it takes for the parents' hearts to harden to the point that the crying doesn't bother them anymore.

Mistymama, It was so very hard. I didn't know what to do. I was left in the room with this baby and I wanted to pick her up and hug her but I couldn't. I felt so bad because she could see me there but I wasn't getting her. Ugh!

[BetsyPage]

That is so sad.

I heard someone do CIO when I was pregnant with dd... we were at our "friends" house (we knew them, weren't super close) for a game night... they had to put their approximately 8 month old dd down while we were there... they had the monitor on while we were sitting at the table playing games, and we could just hear her crying and crying. I don't think it was normal for the baby to cry that much though, b/c the mom was uncomfortable looking, and asked her dh "should I go up and check on her?" and he said "no, she'll be fine". I think she stopped crying after about 45 minutes... I bet she was bothered by us being there, and maybe her mom rushing through bedtime routine. But I was really mad that the mom asked her dh instead of just going to the baby! I was pretty shocked at the time, but even more so, in retrospect... I just can't imagine letting my dd cry like that.

[dharmama]

to you and that poor little one.

i've experienced it a few times with friends - a couple of times before i had my own dd and once since. it bothered me pre-dd but it tore my heart out once i had my own dd and i heard another baby screaming while her mama turned down the monitor and acted like nothing was happening.

[atomicmama]

Reading all the CIO cases, leaves me crying it out!

[mommyofshmoo]

Originally Posted by MarineWife

Exaclty! Maybe that's how long it takes for the parents' hearts to harden to the point that the crying doesn't bother them anymore.

This is why the CIO philosophy doesn't jive with AP. It's not about a one-time, ends-justifies-the-means cruelty. It often just becomes unresponsive parenting.

I certainly don't think that every parent who ever lets a kid any age cry about sleep is doing "CIO". There are times when limits must be drawn about certain behaviors amounst older toddlers and children.

However, i do think that people who adopt a true CIO philosophy are lying to themselves abut what they are doing to their children, and also lying to themselves about how well it's "working."

[RosieTook]

Reading all the CIO cases, leaves me crying it out!

Me too....I have to stop reading stuff like this cause it hurts my heart to think about those babies!

[whateverdidiwants]

For Thanksgiving we were over at some close friends house and because dinner ran so late, we weren't even done when it was "bedtime" for their 18 mo ds. They tried to put him to bed and of course he cried because he knew that there was a whole house full of people downstairs, including other children he loves to play with. As soon as he started crying, my dd (who iwas 2.5 then) started getting anxious and actually got down from the table and started to go up the stairs to check on him! Everyone else (except my family) just acted like it was the most normal thing in the world to keep eating dinner pretending not to hear this little kid CIO. After a few minutes, his parents realized it wasn't going to work (and they could tell that we were appalled), so they went and brought him back downstairs.

Why are so many people slaves to the clock when it comes to their kids bedtime? It was a special occasion, the kid obviously wasn't tired, and no one had to get up early the next morning, so why not just let him stay up and spend time with everyone? I don't get it.

[mommyofshmoo]

Originally Posted by whateverdidiwants

Why are so many people slaves to the clock when it comes to their kids bedtime?

Because that's what the books say to do.

They have to follow the books to a T, because if they are following the advice of an "expert" they can justify hurt their child senselessly day after day.

If they every deviated the plan, they might actually consider what they were doing.

[Aaudreysmom]

That reminds me of something my mom told me. She said that when a 3 of her children were 2 weeks old we slept through the night. Afther some more questioning by me I found out that at 2 weeks she moved us from a bassinett in her room to our own rooms with the doors closed and she gave us oatmeal to keep our tummies full all night. I didn't even think a 2 week old could eat oatmeal (I still don't think they can) much less sleep through the night. I'm sure we were crying and just not heard.

I was babysitting for a woman I did not know last year and she told me that at nap time to put the 8mo in his crib and leave him to cry "he never cries more than 30 min" she said. When I put him down and left him alone in the room he did cry for a few min and then fell asleep. It was heartbreaking.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by whateverdidiwants

Why are so many people slaves to the clock when it comes to their kids bedtime?...I don't get it.

Because they are told by the "experts" that if they don't do this their child won't be disciplined. They will have a "spoiled brat" on their hands. We must have order!

[LittleLime]

i don't understand it and i never will. i have stopped trying. soooo sad. very very sad. and what's most interesting to me is that everyone says we have to make sure our kids are independent. they can't need us...they need to soothe themselves etc. etc. then...when they're all grown up these same parents say..."i wish i was closer with my kids. i always wanted a close relationship with my kids etc." soooo...why...at every chance you got...did you push your babies away from you? and now you wonder why they don't need...or want to be with you.

[*LoveBugMama*]

Originally Posted by LittleLime

then...when they're all grown up these same parents say..."i wish i was closer with my kids. i always wanted a close relationship with my kids etc." soooo...why...at every chance you got...did you push your babies away from you? and now you wonder why they don't need...or want to be with you.

This is SOO important!

I agreee 100%!

[MarineWife]

ITA Tamara and LittleLime, especially when it seems like common sense to me that children that are more attached are more secure in the world at large because they know that they always have a safe place to go.

[coleslaw]

After having a "hard-to-deal with first child" my MIL learned her lesson and put my dh 2 floors down from their bedroom. They seem to think he was a good sleeper.

[huggerwocky]

Originally Posted by BetsyPage

That is so sad.

I heard someone do CIO when I was pregnant with dd... we were at our "friends" house (we knew them, weren't super close) for a game night... they had to put their approximately 8 month old dd down while we were there... they had the monitor on while we were sitting at the table playing games, and we could just hear her crying and crying. I don't think it was normal for the baby to cry that much though, b/c the mom was uncomfortable looking, and asked her dh "should I go up and check on her?" and he said "no, she'll be fine". I think she stopped crying after about 45 minutes... I bet she was bothered by us being there, and maybe her mom rushing through bedtime routine. But I was really mad that the mom asked her dh instead of just going to the baby! I was pretty shocked at the time, but even more so, in retrospect... I just can't imagine letting my dd cry like that.

45 minutes, are you serious? I call that hardcore crying it out, ouch!

[LunaMom]

I'm going to come off as defensive here, and maybe I'm just overly sensitive today...

"Putting the baby down for a nap" and "bedtime" are not necessarily bad things. I feel that a couple of previous posters who put these things in quotes have a problem with these two practices, or assume that such things only happen with CIO involved.

My daughter, from a very young age, fell into a natural schedule and seemed the most content and relaxed when that schedule was followed. I put her down for naps at a certain time every day and she fell asleep without fussing if she wasn't already asleep after nursing. As she grew, I always had a bedtime for her because I knew from trial and error how much sleep she seemed to need. If I waited for her to fall asleep or ask to go to bed, she'd wind up suffering from serious sleep deprivation, trust me.

Now, that's a temperament thing, of course. If she was a child who did not fall asleep easily and cried at bedtime, I never would have shut her door and let her cry for 45 minutes (awful!!! How can someone stand that?) just to keep the routine. And of course, there have been times when she has asked for a little company or she has been upset or scared or whatever and my husband and I attended to her needs sensitively.

I just don't like when everything is presented as being so black and white - you know, either you sleep or lie down with your child at the time she chooses to go to bed, or else you must be using CIO and forcing your child to sleep. There is a middle ground, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's in it!

I know, touchy, touchy. Blame PMS. I never get huffy here for the most part.

[USAmma]

I spent last Friday on the phone with a friend who had her son crying and screaming the entire time. I felt that I needed to stay on the phone with her, she was very emotional b/c he hadn't been napping well, she was not emotionally that stable at the time and I just felt it was best that she have someone talking to her. SHe kept going in to check on him according to the timer and he never did fall asleep. He just screamed for an hour.

I tried to tell her how I just pretty much accepted my non-napping (or hardly- 30 mins a day) baby because that's just the way it was, but she was so emotional and determined to get him to bed. It was a power struggle.

I felt bad for her and for the baby. She has watched me raise my girls and knows my reasons for not CIO but chose to do it her own way. SHe's still my friend. I realize it's her choice to do that but it didn't make it any harder to witness.

Darshani