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All religions worshipping one "God"? - Page 3

post #41 of 68
NM-
I am curiously waiting for the answer to your question. It is a good one.

-BelovedBird
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother


Dear DaryLLL, Well forever why? So many here have made it clear they love some of the Bible stories as "stories" and entertainment and nice bedtime stories,


Not having been on these boards as long as you, I haven't seen these sentiments expressed, but I will bow to your greater experience. But just b/c so many have done it, are you saying that makes it right or acceptable?

Quote:
When there are obviously Christian posters here who believe the total truth of all the biblical stories. Are you then being disrespecful to those who adhere to biblical truths?
Don't really understand the question, but I think my answer is no. OTOH I don't like the concept of Biblical "Truths." Just my opinion tho.

Quote:
In past threads you have made some fairly degrading remarks on what I see as truth. Lets not have double standards.
Yes, I was more mocking when I joined MDC a couple months ago, and I am sorry. I learned a lot of lessons from your "I have no problem..." thread. I hope we all did. My tune has changed since then.

I still see at least a double standard here on what people can or cannot be tolerated to say tho, so I am still confused, and waiting to be enlightened as per this. Some seem to be excused when they mock.

Thank you for bringing this matter up!
post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother

Sorry, BB, you lost me? What question?
Your question to Daryl.


Quote:
Yes your "tune" has changed and I've noticed that. Thanks
Ditto, Daryl it is noticed and appreciated. It is always nice to see people who had bad experiances in their past let go of those experiances enough to be able to interact without their interfering negativly. If that makes sense.

-BelovedBird
post #44 of 68
DaryLLL-
I didn't feel you were being snotty or difficult at all, I just was trying to apologize in advance to you, or others who might have felt I was. I too appreciate the debate.

I will check out the web site you mentioned.

In all my reading thusfar, I have found only general agreement on the authorship and accuracy of the Bible. I would be interested to hear what you think of the book by Lee Strobel I mentioned. I will say, however, that for some people, no proof will ever be enough. I said earlier in this thread (I believe) that there is always enough information to make it clear, if you are willing to make the choice. In the end, it always comes down to individuals choosing God or not.

As for Thomas Paine, he was not a theologian. I think it is important to be careful of sources used. While Mr. Paine may have had lots to say, I don't believe he spent his life studying the Bible, so, as with AL Weber, I'm not sure he is a source I would put all my faith in. Plus, we have a lot more information about the Bible than we had in the 18th century.

If Jesus said "I am the son of God. You can't get to God except through me." And he wasn't actually the son of God, then what else could he be other than a liar or a lunatic?

I am still interested in knowing what you meant by Jesus' teachings being bracketed by killings, rapings, imperialism of the OT.

And yes, I agree with you that we are all children of God, and yes we are each in all different places on different paths. Let me leave you with a verse I recently came upon ...

Matthew 8 (NIV) 13 " Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
post #45 of 68
DaryLLL-
I'm back after having briefly looked at the website you suggested by Dennis McKinsey. Obviously there is more there than I could possibly respond to, but here is what I found just in the first place I looked.

I clicked on Ressurection. One of the first things he says discredits the Bible is the contradictory accounts. This is also discussed in the Lee Strobel's book. (You may also want to look at his second book, The Case for Faith, which deals with the major objections to Christianity. Both books are quick and easy to read, even with kids.) If the language of the day is looked at in the context of the day, and how people used language then, what looks like contradictions to us in modern language are in fact, not contradictions. As I said, this is dealt with specifically, using the same passages D. McKinsey uses, in the Strobel book.

Also, it talks about Peter's denials, saying that in John 13:38 Jesus says Peter will deny him 3x before the rooster crows. Then he jumps to Mark 14: 66-68 to disprove that. However, if he had looked farther, until verse 72, he would have seen that Peter does deny him 3x before the rooster crows. Also, there are three denials in John, where he got the original quote from. Peter's denials are in John 18:17,25 &27.

I stand on the side that, when looked at in context of the day's culture and language use, there is a reasonable explination for each of the humanist complaints about the Bible.

Pussycat
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by its_our_family

I think rituals about earth and seasons are very intriguing. But they are for entertainment and such....there is noly one God and I do not believe in all-inclusive religion.

Just for the record, it was its_our_family I was responding to, not pussycat, in this instance.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by Pussycat
If Jesus said "I am the son of God. You can't get to God except through me." And he wasn't actually the son of God, then what else could he be other than a liar or a lunatic?

Matthew 8 (NIV) 13 " Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Asking a question from out here on the broad road, Pussycat:

where does Jesus say he is the son of God in the Christian Bible? Is the quote you gave here from Thomas Paine or yourself? I'm confused, sorry!



:
post #48 of 68
luvinlivin-

I'm not sure by your comment about the 'broad road' if you are feeling attacked, and trying to give a little in return. I just would like to state again, I am not trying to be uppity or snotty or difficult. I am trying to state simply and plainly what the Bible says in the hopes that people with questions will seek the truth open mindedly.

I was paraphrasing, those are not his exact words. But here are some quotes from the Bible to check out.

Mark 14: 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed one?" 62 "I am", said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Jesus' referring to himself as the Son of Man is a direct refrence to Daniel 7:13-14, where the son of man is a divine figure)

The same exchange is repeated in Matthew 26: 63-64

See also, John 14: 1-13 The specific quote I paraphrased is in John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

All of John 3 up to verse 21 is Jesus talking about Himself to Nicodemus (one of the Pharisees, a ruler of the Jews). In verses 13 -21 He is clearly speaking of Himself and directly stating He is the Son of God and that those who believe in Him are not condemned, but those who do not are. See verse 36 of the same chapter for a recap (This time it is John the Baptist proclaiming who Christ is)

Also take a look at Luke 21 to 24.

I hope this helps answer your question.
Pussycat
post #49 of 68
Pussycat--

Thanks for looking at the site. I read it for about 3 months straight (at least an hour a day), then started reading the Bible. I still haven't read the whole site. So, in all those months/hours, I found a lot to convince me he knows what he is talking about. And he really takes on apologists in a big way. I guess your Lee Strobel is one? There are many.

I guess what we don't have in common in our studies is this: you feel the Bible is a big puzzle, and if studied in a certain way (assuming Jesus is using Daniel's def of Son of Man, and no other, and assuming he was correctly quoted , for ex), or as Nursing Mother might and did say, studying it "correctly," it all fits together. I am thinking it takes a big dose of Holy Spirit to make it all fit.

Maybe I am unconsciously fighting off the Holy Ghost with a big stick in my studies, but after almost 7 months of study, a couple hours a day, no days off, I have found it still looks to me like at least 5 or 6 puzzles, all with pieces missing, all thrown together in one big box. Maybe I am using the wrong Bible (Oxford Study Bible, which is filled with seemingly objective footnotes. It sometimes calls certain OT stories, for ex: legends.)? Maybe my fundamentalist in laws are not praying hard enough for me.

One of your complaints about T Paine is, he didn't make the study of the Bible a lifetime thing. Obviously, I also am unqualified to talk, as I have only put about 420 hours into concerted study so far. Some would say, I don't know Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek, so shouldn't talk.

But, dang it, I still wanna talk! Maybe I sound really stupid and ill informed, but I am trying to read it all, which may be more than many so-called Christians even try to do.

I rely on luvinlivin's knowledge. She has read it all, and even memorized entire chapters, in her "misspent" (ha!) youth.

And has come to many of the same conclusions I have (so far). Again, maybe it's all about that "Holy Spirit."

That said, I still find it a fascinating document, full of magical thinking, magical (and exaggerated, and rounded off) numbers (3, 7, 12, 40 days and 40 nights), competing lords and masters of men, tons of war and hatred, incest, whoredom, awesome gods on clouds and mountains, people with psychic abilities, love and sacrifice, magical food multiplications and transubstantiations, etc. (I wouldn't all it "entertaining," it is too scary and nauseating for that. And anyone that says I "hate" Christianity, is being short-sighted, at best.)

In other words, I find it just as interesting in what it says about humanity as any other religion's mythology. Or any book of fairy tales (no disrespect intended). But, no more "real" or "true." I read a website when I was looking up Mithra, and the author saw the many parallels between Mithra and Jesus-Yahweh. But somehow, he came to the conclusion that, while both religions had similar themes and imagery, Mithraism was "counterfeit" and Christianity was the real deal.

I am not a humanist, and I don't know if Dennis McKinsey is either. I did not read him to come out and say he was. I tend to be more of a Campbellite. I agree with the OP. All the same god. J. Campbell calls it the masks of god. He shows a sculpture of a 3 headed god, I believe it is Hindu. The face in front is androgynous and appears to be meditating. Off of that, is one male and one female head. He said that the central head is beyond opposites. As soon as there is creation, there will be opposites. But even the central head is a mask of god, put there for the convenience of us, carbon based life forms. The real god is beyond any mask we could come up with.
post #50 of 68
DaryLLL-
Yes, I would say Lee Strobel is considered an apologist, certianly in the books I mentioned. In all your 420 hours of study (and that is quite impressive, and I'm sure more than a lot of professing Christians spend, to their detriment), have you read anything from the Christian apologist standpoint. While the study Bibles are wonderful, for me a number of things are better explained in other writings by people who have studied the languages and culture of the time, because there is no way I can do the study of the languages/culture myself. If all you read is Dennis McKinsey's pov, and others who are trying to disprove the Bible, than in my opinion you are not really studying with an open mind. Believe me, I have gone to apologist writing wanting to find the faults in it. You know where I stand now. And, as far as D. McKinsey's site, well, I haven't spent much time at all reading it, but in my first twenty minutes I found an obvious mistake that the Bible itself refutes with out the help of an apologist. That does not bode well for him, imo.

It is possible that the Holy Spirit is necessary to understand. In your study have you asked God to show you the truth? It seems you obviously believe in God, if not necessarily the Christian God, and if that is the case is it possible for you to ask Him to show you the way? (He probably won't answer overnight- it's been more than 5 years for me). Are you open to the possibility that you are wrong? That was a huge one for me, getting to the point where I could even accept the possibility that I was wrong, despite what I knew from previous study and experience. Even with all that, could I stil be wrong?

You don't sound stupid or ill informed. It is good that you are talking and asking questions. That is more than most non-Christians ever do.

Pussycat
post #51 of 68
Hi Pussycat--

Quote:
Originally posted by Pussycat
[B]
Yes, I would say Lee Strobel is considered an apologist, certianly in the books I mentioned. In all your 420 hours of study (and that is quite impressive, and I'm sure more than a lot of professing Christians spend, to their detriment), have you read anything from the Christian apologist standpoint.

Yes, I have. I have read debates between D McK and apologists in his newsletters (he continually allows space in his newsleeters for opposing viewpoints.) I have read several study guides on Revelation. I felt I needed help with that book! The ideas from the study guides were ranging from fundamentalist views, which tried to take most of it literally, to views that Rev is a literary document written in a popular style of the day, and included in the official Bible, when that was being complied, b/c the reviewers thought the actual author had signed it with his actual name, instead of signing it "Moses," or the name of some other prophet/patriarch, as was common for apocalyptic authors to do.

Geez, the # of hours I have read the Bible and studied other texts, sounds rather Biblical, doesn't it? From the Book of Chong. But seriously...

No, I haven't read any other apology lit. I have read lit of several other religions, practiced rituals, etc. I am trying to read the Bible with an open mind. The apologies I saw on the BE website I actually found embarrassingly bad, so I wasn't inspired to look any actual books up. I may in the future, as time allows. Your quote (from Strobel?) that Jesus was either the Son of God, a madman or a liar I find extremely short sighted. But if it works for you, that's fine.

Quote:
It is possible that the Holy Spirit is necessary to understand. In your study have you asked God to show you the truth? It seems you obviously believe in God, if not necessarily the Christian God, and if that is the case is it possible for you to ask Him to show you the way? (He probably won't answer overnight- it's been more than 5 years for me).
Well, now, since I don't imagine god as a man, I couldn't very well ask "Him" to help me, could I? OTOH, if you can bear with me and imagine god as something other than a man (presumably with a long robe and beard?), here is a little story. One day this summer, I was feeling overwhelmed by my Bible reading. It is a long complicated book, full of so many stories, it is hard to take it all in. I sat down outside, and opened the book. No sooner had my eye found it's place on the page, than a golden dragonfly settled on the left upper corner of the book. It sat and breathed for a minute. It then flew over to the opposite corner, sat and breathed. Then flew away on it's next mission. To me, this was a divine message, beautiful and complete, and devoid of words, which made it go straight to my heart. (See animal totems thread.)

Quote:
Are you open to the possibility that you are wrong?
ha, ha! nope. I am doing what is right for me, right now, and it feels good!

Peace--
post #52 of 68
DaryLLL-
If you are not at all open to the possibility that you are wrong, why are you bothering to investigate the Bible? If you are reading and studying it simply to disprove it, than you are not seeking with an open mind, and you surely will never see any point of view other than your own. Is it more important to be right, or to be right with God?

I have no problem with the idea of messages sent through animals, completely possible in my book. (I have looked at the AnimalTotems thread briefly, and would like to look at it further) But forgive me if I am asking something too personal, what was the message the dragonfly brought you and in what way did it refute the Bible?

You say the only apologist things you have read are sourced from DMcK. I wonder how open he is to putting any good arguments on his site. The Strobel book, and another book I've read (Jesus Among Other Gods by Ravi Zacharias) both site many many athiest arguments, and refute them.

As for the argument of Jesus being Lord, a liar, or lunatic, I would hope that you would investigate the whole argument (in Josh McDowell's book A Ready Defense, see chapter in earlier post.) before calling it short sighted, simply based on my paraphrase.

As far as God being a man in a long robe with a beard, well, I don't think of Him that way. Regardless of what He is, is it not possible for Him to help you in your seeking, if even through a dragonfly? How could it hurt to ask for guidance? Or is your idea of God one that does not respond to your needs?

I will suggest again that you look up the books I have suggested. Storbels are easy, fast reads (even with 2 kids under 5 I read them in about 3 weeks). The Zacharias book is only 188 pages. The McDowell book is quite long, but could be used as a reference book if you like rather than reading it cover to cover at the outset. If you are truely seeking truth, I would think you would want to read all sides of the issues. If you are looking only to justify your point of view, than I don't think anything I say will be of help to you in that search.

I would really love to continue this discussion after you have read some of the things suggested (as well as continuing now if you like). You can always PM or email me though here in the future.

Peace to you too-
Pussycat
post #53 of 68
Pussycat- It was quite interesting to read your r post today. I remember some of your posts from earlier this year and how you were in the "seaching" phase yourself (please correct me if I have you mixed up with someone else) I am really curious if you ever read "Conversations With God" like I had suggested. The reason I ask is something you said really struck me as being so completely on the same wavelength with it:

Quote:
I believed in reincarnation, that we are all individualizations of God conciousness
Anyway, sounds like you are solidly on your own path...just thought I would ask

Thao-
I totally agree with this Buddhist idea which also jives with the Conversations With God God:

Quote:
the way I reconcile all the different religions is to think of Jesus and other religious founders as Boddhisatvas. Which in Buddhist
theology is a being who has reached enlightenment and could escape to Nirvana if they wanted to but has elected to stay in the circle of death and rebirth to teach and help others.
I believe Jesus was a highy evolved being who understood perfectly that we are all God...he says this many, many times...but he also understood that people feared this idea, they couldn't accept it...so he said instead that if need be they could go with Him to God...I do not believe he said you had to go through Him but if need be go with Him....
post #54 of 68
Ooops! Didn't really finish my thought-

I personally don't believe that I (or anyone) needs to go through anyone or anything to be with God. To believe this I would have to believe I wasn't already one-with-God.

I have rejected the idea that the only way to be "with" God is through Jesus as this would mean that all of the Hindus, Buddhists, Jingoists, Taoists, Atheists, Agnostics, Paganists, Animists, Jews, and all of the people all the world over who have never even heard of Jesus are not "with" God.
Just doesn't fit with the all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God that I know and love

Yes, God has spoken and I have listened

However, I also believe that if someone believes they need to go through Jesus to be with God then that is fine too...I won't try to changet their minds about that...I know better
post #55 of 68
Hi Deirdre-

You have not confused me with someone else, it was me you reccommended Conversations With God to. I have not yet read it, but it is on my list. As far as my comment about reincarnation and oneness with God consciousness, it is what I grew up with.

I think what i sreally important when trying to determine who Jesus was is to look at the Biblical texts in their original language. Obviously most of us can't do that, but we can look to people who have studied the languages to glean their actual meaning. Some things do get lost when put into today's language and culture. I think the things Jesus was saying about himself are more clear when looked at in this way, you can see the use of words that mean only one thing, that fulfill prophecy from the OT.

You said:
--------------------------------------
I have rejected the idea that the only way to be "with" God is through Jesus as this would mean that all of the Hindus, Buddhists, Jingoists, Taoists, Atheists, Agnostics, Paganists, Animists, Jews, and all of the people all the world over who have never even heard of Jesus are not "with" God.
Just doesn't fit with the all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God that I know and love
---------------------------------------

This is something that is very hard to understand, and certianly I have and do struggle with it. But, there are even answers to this. In the Lee Strobel book I mentioned called "The Case for Faith" he spends an entire chapter talking about it. For me, it made sense. He does not say that everyone except authentic Christians go to Hell, by the way.

As for God being all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful. I agree whole heartedly. But I no longer believe that means everyone is in relationship with God, just because He is all loving. Lots and lots and lots of people have rejected God, and He isn't going to force anyone to choose him. I've said this before. It comes down to the individuals choice. Their heart toward God.

Pussycat
post #56 of 68
wow- responding to some posts a ways back...I have never met anyone who read The Teachings of the Masters of the Far East...(Baird_ except my dad and his mom...and me, I was raised catholic(very) and quite the catholic young lady when at the tender age of 12 I read these books and my whole life literally imploded...
anyways...Been an interesting topic to listen to everyones beliefs, I find it interesting that the question is asked about all Gods/Godesses Deities but yet the predominant reference seems to be the bible? ...dont get me wrong, I mean no disrespect, I am right there with whoever that was that says they feel as if the rituals are beautiful and the mythology is great entertainment, but I get that from going to church services and reading the bible too- DONT GET ME WRONG...I also feel an innate power existant in those rituals and at church services, its everywhere.
so...what am I feeling? Im feeling MY OWN FEELINGS.
\When I began trying to be a good parent and birth the best way possible I closed my eyes and UNLEARNED what everyone told me, what I read, what I was taught, what I experienced, and I ended up with natural birth, breastfeeding, APing, continuum theories, all on my own...because IR FELT RIGHT. for me I mean. so FOR ME thats how I cope with the fear instilled from fear based christianity(and I dont think all christianity is fear based at all) which for whatever reason is the biggest fear I have, I just tell myself, I can only feel what I feel and my what I truly believe is the truth to me-
not sure where Im going with this sorry-
post #57 of 68
Glad a few other voices have stepped into the fray.

Pussycat--

I am not reading the bible just to prove it wrong. I found McKinseys' website extremely interesting and think he does a bang up job of using actual Bible verses to confound themselves. (yes, he does make an occasional mistake, and readers sometimes write to him and correct him and he takes note. He is only one man, paddling pstream, with no help and little money.)But he doesn't have the final answer for me! I find him to take things too literally. As I said, I prefer the more philosophical viewpoints of Campbell, to represent what is actually going on in matters of the spirit.

To be honest, I don't find some of the slogans you have laid on us, to be convincing. I find they weaken your argument about the veracity of the Bible, not strenghthen it. Eg: "Jesus was either the Son of God, a liar or a madman." "Is is better to be right, or right with God?" How about: "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it?" Anyway, just my feeling. You have a right to say them, if they feel good for you. it just brings to mind, for me, an earlier discussion of the usefullness of bumper stickers to change people's belief systems (from the "God in popular culture" thread).

But that was an aside. I think your question of me asking myself whether I am right or wrong is a good one, nonetheless. It seems very important to you that there is a final answer. Some have to be right, some have to be wrong. One way or another, you have convinced yourself that your way of interpreting the Bible is ultimately, and finally for all time and all people, Right. Unfortunately, when you think about it, no 2 people, no 2 Christians even, are going to exactly agree on their viewpoints of the Bible. It *has* to be filtered through individual consciousness. Maybe you didn't have enough structure or safety in your childhood or early adulthood, so the finality of interpreting the literal truth of every word of the Bible, makes you feel secure? Maybe there is some other reason. Just conjecturing. I have known people like this.

I have to do what feels right for me. God lives in me, so I am "right with god" when I follow my path. I started asking difficult questions about the bible when I was a young child in church classes. My pastor, who was teaching us in preparation for confirmation, basically told me to take my questions and shove em, or he wouldn't confirm me. Being the contrary person that I am, I didn't just take my questions and shove em, I shoved the whole religion for many years!

I became a "new ager" in my late teens, and in more recent years, have found paganism/Wicca to most fulfill my spiritual needs. This year, I started reading the Bible for reasons of my own. Not to prove it "wrong," as pagans can glean knowledge from any holy (or secular for that matter) book they choose. But partly to disempower it. To deconstruct it. To find out what it really says, as opposed to the stories that were spoonfed to me in Sunday School. (I hated going to church. It was boring and I would much have rather stayed home with my dad, reading the paper and eating bagels in my PJs. But no, had to put on an uncomfortable dress, little white sox and Mary Janes and go be a good girl, every dang week. Get yelled at about burning in hell. Very comforting and enriching---not!)

As lisa_lynn says, there is fear (some would call it superstition) surrounding the bible's take it or leave it philosophy. To question the veracity of its tenet of there being only one true god, and to read of the "punishment" the Israelites received when they worshipped other gods, can really put some fear into ya. Not to mention the Revelation of John at the end. I feel extremely uncomfortable with a religion that promises love, but depicts revenge and jealousy in such graphic ways. It cancels out the love, IMO.


Final thought for today--Joseph Campbell cherished the time he spent in Japan, with an entire people who had never heard of the concept of original sin.
post #58 of 68
I hope no one minds if I enter this discussion a little late. I've been following this thread for awhile, but it seems like I get so busy reading that I run out of free time before getting to post.

Lisa Lynn, you remind me so much of myself and my own spiritual journey. My initial thought was that yes, all religions worship one God. But I suppose that isn't exactly what I mean. I believe that God is loving, forgiving, and kind, so I don't believe that the cruel and vindictive God that people have used (and use) to advocate hatred or violence is the same God. However, I do believe that we can experience God as a part of any religion or just as a part of our everyday lives.

I know that some of you are very secure in your knowledge of who God/Gods/Goddesses/etc. is/are, and I think that's really exciting. I, myself, am so unsure about any of the specifics of the divine. I merely know that I feel a spiritual presence near me often.

It's amazing to read how some of us have taken nearly opposite spiritual journeys, and yet found the current path more fulfilling.
It's amazing how different our spiritual needs can be. But that's another topic.
post #59 of 68
Hi Pussycat!

I probably should give you a little bit of my background so you are clear about where I come from spiritually..I was raised Roman Catholic (Catholic schools K-12) a religion filled with rituals, dogma and history. After college I spent several years in the business world before I returned to school to receive my Masters in Theology and then I worked as a Campus Minister for several years doing social justice programming and coordinating liturgies.

What I find to be really fascinating is that you seem to be embracing something closer to what I was raised and educated in (at least as far as a spirituality based on the Bible's teachings) ...and I am embracing a spirituality closer to what you were raised in.

You said:

Quote:
Originally posted by Pussycat

I think what i sreally important when trying to determine who Jesus was is to look at the Biblical texts in their original language. Obviously most of us can't do that, but we can look to people who have studied the languages to glean their actual meaning. Some things do get lost when put into today's language and culture. I think the things Jesus was saying about himself are more clear when looked at in this way, you can see the use of words that mean only one thing, that fulfill prophecy from the OT.
I don't disbelieve in Jesus or think the Bible is bunch of falsehoods....I just don't believe it is the be all and end all of God's communication with us...both written and verbal. As I said Jesus was a highly evolved being and a master teacher....he understood fully his Oneness with God and the message he was trying to get across was that we are One with God also. But I don't really feel any need to read the Bible in its original language because I don't believe I need it to be with God. BTW, I know this because God told me so


Quote:
Originally posted by Pussycat

You said:
--------------------------------------
I have rejected the idea that the only way to be "with" God is through Jesus as this would mean that all of the Hindus, Buddhists, Jingoists, Taoists, Atheists, Agnostics, Paganists, Animists, Jews, and all of the people all the world over who have never even heard of Jesus are not "with" God.
Just doesn't fit with the all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God that I know and love
---------------------------------------

This is something that is very hard to understand, and certianly I have and do struggle with it. But, there are even answers to this. In the Lee Strobel book I mentioned called "The Case for Faith" he spends an entire chapter talking about it. For me, it made sense. He does not say that everyone except authentic Christians go to Hell, by the way.

...But I no longer believe that means everyone is in relationship with God, just because He is all loving.
I am happy I don't have to struggle with this at all because I don't believe God would want me to struggle with it I do believe everyone is in relationship with God all the time, for we are all One with God. I can't grasp how I could be One with God and not be in relationship with God, it just doesn't work for me Noone can ever be wholly separate from God, or else they wouldn't exist.

Anyway, I do wish you the best on your spiritual journey.

Take Care!
Deirdre
post #60 of 68
Hi again DaryLLL-
My intent has not been to convince you. I have simply been debating the issue from my perspective. I know I don't do the convincing.

As for my personal life, you could not be further from the truth in your guess.

I know no two people come to God in exactly the same way. But I don't think that means there is more than one God, however. He knows what each of us need to be called to Him.

I do believe there is a right and a wrong. If everyone is right who is following their own path, then those who suicide bomb for God's sake, those who kill abortion dr.s for God's sake, those who beat their children because they believe God says we're supposed to... then they are also right. And I don't believe that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience as a kid with church and your minister. We are meant to question and it is too bad we are not all supported in that. But, a bad experience does not make the true message wrong... although it may be a turn-off and you may have to search to find the true message.

In regards to Biblical violence and punishment, please see the new thread I am starting to discuss it.


Hi Deirdre-
I don't believe you necessarily have to have the Bible to be with God either, but I don't think that means the Bible is wrong, and I don't think it will take you away from God.

If we are all one with God... see the other new thread I am starting to discuss that.

I appreciate the debate ladies, and I will say again that I am not trying to convince you. I can't change your beliefs, I can only state what I believe. That is what I have been trying to do.

Pussycat-
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