need help- how bad is ezzo really?

[Faith]

nak

in a nutshell, i just found ezzo things at our church and am ready to fight the good fight.

what i need to know is- really how bad are they, verses what is just rumors, yk?

did a baby really die from dehydration? do the babies really puke up blood from crying so hard and sleep in their own vomit bacause the parents can't check on them?

exactly what do they advise you do with the rod? is it abuse legally?

i want to cry just thinking about it. i am so upset and just looking to get my 'ducks in a row.'

thanks for any info anybody has.

[glendora]

http://www.ezzo.info/

[mirlee]

There have been many threads on this here.

I found this one that I think could help. Some of the other threads may also be helpful.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...highlight=ezzo

[TranscendentalMom]

I think Ezzo is pretty bad but I also think a lot of how bad comes from how the reader interprets it. For example, I have a friend who read Babywise and says it helped her set up a schedule for her daughter. She started spacing out feedings when she was 4 months old and eating some solids (but not letting her cry) and she swears she started sleeping thru the night on her own without CIO just from this. Its still not my style but its a far cry from letting them scream til they puke.

Problem is...there ARE people out there who will read this book as if its some authority. The thing that irks me is that he's a man with no medical background and no college degree for what its worth and yet millions of women are following this like gospel?

[mommyofshmoo]

Originally Posted by Faith

nak



exactly what do they advise you do with the rod? is it abuse legally?

I know what that Ezzo guy should do with a rod!

Yeah, it's really that bad. The American Association of Pediatrics has advised against using his baby books, and some religious groups have advised against following his advice because they feel his followers behave in ways that are similar to a cult.

[TiredX2]

I know what that Ezzo guy should do with a rod!

[Linda KS]

I think one of the dangerous things about a church having these classes is that these opinions come across to some parents as God's Will for how to raise your kids. Some people stop thinking for themselves when they hear that god wants them to do something -- even if that something is leave their baby crying or smack them with a shoe.

[BensMom]

Originally Posted by Linda KS

I think one of the dangerous things about a church having these classes is that these opinions come across to some parents as God's Will for how to raise your kids. Some people stop thinking for themselves when they hear that god wants them to do something -- even if that something is leave their baby crying or smack them with a shoe.

ITA. I think the church version of Ezzo (Preparation for Parenthood) is particuarly vile because they wrap up the abuse in a pretty package and call in "Gods Will". So the unspoken (in later versions) implication is that if you do not follow this program, you are not following Gods Will. It sickens me.

[mom23boys]

child abuse

plain and simple it is child abuse. "google" it and see all that is spoken out against it. I'm a Christian and I read this before the birth of our first baby (we have 3 kids) and I thought since 'good, Christian friends" highly recommended it after taking the "Growing Kids God's Way" course at their church, it must be the "only" correct way to "Christian parent". I was WAY wrong and it was extremely miserable because I "failed" at it. I still struggle with it and it is over 8 years and 2 more kids later!

DO NOT take the course! In fact, for years we were trying to find a church closer to home than the one we had been going to, and any church that teaches this garbage is WAY out of line doctrinally, so if your church is teaching this stuff, I would seriously think about what else they are condoning.

Sorry to be so strong but this is one topic that sends my blood pressure soaring. new parents (any parents) do not need this type of pressure cloaked in "Christianity". Treating your child like a dog that needs to be "trained' is not "God's Way". Okay I'll step off of my soapbox now...my blood pressure is high.
Christine
mom to 3 boys who are turning out okay even though we haven't "programmed" them

[lillaurensmomma]

When I was pg with my dd, someone gave me the Babywise book and like a naive first time mom, I thought it made a lot of sense. Then I started looking online and was horrified at what I saw. I actually learned a lot from the ezzo debate board at parent's place http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppezzo (probably the only useful thing I got out of pp!) There were a lot of personal stories from moms who tried Babywise and had some pretty scary and heartbreaking results. I also really like ezzo.info for sound information.


j

[mommyofshmoo]

A CLASS!!!!! I thought you'd just found a book lying around!

Faith- you are fighting the good fight. It's so important to have people on the inside speaking out.

Hormonal OT Rant: I am so pissed off that extremists are using god, jesus, and christianity further their wacky reactionary agenda. I was raised catholic and up intill a few years ago I was under the impression that I am a christian. Apparently not, however, because I live in a blue state, am not "born again", and I don't hit my dd with my shoes.

The Jesus I remember from sunday school was a very nice person. If I remember he was described as the nicest, most forgiving, most patient, most accepting person one could imagine. He told people to treat others as they would like to be treated. I know I don't count as a "Christian" anymore, but MY god would never encourage people to treat their kids the way Gary Ezzo does. My God was better than that.

I don't care that there are freaks out there advocating child abuse. There's always sickos around. But it sickens me that they try to get God involved in their arguement.

And for the record- a rod is used to GUIDE sheep, not to hit them!

[huggerwocky]

Originally Posted by mommyofshmoo

I know what that Ezzo guy should do with a rod!

Yeah, it's really that bad. The American Association of Pediatrics has advised against using his baby books, and some religious groups have advised against following his advice because they feel his followers behave in ways that are similar to a cult.

Maybe refering to the American Association of Pediatrics will help?Normally people who use this books are impressed my "authority".

[Faith]

A CLASS!!!!! I thought you'd just found a book lying around!

I wish. No, it was about a dozen books, a dozen videos, cassette tapes, and a teacher's manual all sticky-noted and ready to go. It all looked slightly used, like the church has used it once before we got there.

I think it is dangerous just lying around like that! Anyone could see it, read it, borrow it (it is available to check out), think the church condones it... Of couse, maybe the church does.

I am going to have DH talk with the pastor and see if he even realizes what he has there (maybe the youth pastor just did it on his own or something, yk?). If the pastor is clueless about the ezzo's, we will fill him in as much as it takes. If he is on board, I guess it's back to church shopping. And that will be my first question to all new churches: "Where to you stand on the ezzo's?!"

I admit my first reaction was to take them all and hide them. Permanently check them out! But there was just too much of it.

Off to look at the links. Thanks!

[huggerwocky]

Originally Posted by Linda KS

I think one of the dangerous things about a church having these classes is that these opinions come across to some parents as God's Will for how to raise your kids. Some people stop thinking for themselves when they hear that god wants them to do something -- even if that something is leave their baby crying or smack them with a shoe.

What what what?CHURCH CLASSES? I'd do anything I can to prevent that from happening, show them the statements the american association of pediatrics made etc and ask how they can advise against that?

I am so sickened by this....:

[mom23boys]

another terrible book that churches teach

I would commend you for fighting the good fight!

Our church that we've attended for 10 years (up in the mountains an hour away which is why we were "church shopping") was going to offer a course taught by a young couple with 1 small child (who used babywise, by the way!) on a book by Tedd Tripp called "Shepherding your Child's Heart" and it is almost as bad as the Ezzo crap (excuse my french). I was horrified when I read about this in the church bulletin. It was going to be a small group kind of thing for those who were interested. I was so upset I lost sleep over it. So, I consulted with our pastor down here in the city, and asked for his help in just sticking to the scriptural problems the book had. See, the same "friends" who gave us the ezzo book/course work also recommended this book. I read it a few years ago, and was almost as horrified by the "christian" philosophy it claimed. So, I wrote a loving but firm letter to our pastor in the mountains telling him all of the reasons why I was so upset that they'd teach that course. He was SO thankful, because he hadn't read the book (I always think a pastor should read and condone what is being taught in small groups!) but was letting these people teach the small group because they told him and another couple told him that it was a great book. SO, he took my letter to heart, and stopped the class before it started. I felt a little awkward, but since I care deeply for this pastor and his church (I'm very active in the music ministry even from an hour away), I didn't want to sit by and let them go down a slippery legalistic slope. He was very grateful!

I would definitely ask your pastor what he thinks of the Ezzo stuff and if he does support it, I'd run for your life! Too many Christian churches get so tangled up in this sort of legalistic junk, and they get off of what the Bible teaches. It really gives Christians the predominantly bad name they have today, because most people only see this stuff, not the quiet, unassuming, nonjudgmental Christians that really love the Lord and show it simply by how they live.

Okay, soapbox is over. I support you in talking to your pastor! This is not something to take lightly! And, stay away from the Tedd Tripp book too! It is just as bad!
Christine

[DebraBaker]

The secular Babywise series is actually a watered down version of the "Christian" Prep (renamed along the infant way or some newspeak) It is especially harmful because it if usually taught in a legalistic setting suggesting that Ezzo's way is G-d's way (in fact, the course is called "Growing Kids G-d's Way")

I was actually kicked out of a church over this crap (and I don't apologize for my French)

Debra Baker

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Adding my voice to the "definitely worth fighting" call. I think "Babywise" is bad enough, but I have a much, much bigger problem with "Growing Kids God's Way" or "Along the Baby/Toddler/Children's Way" as it was later renamed.

The Ezzos claim that this is the one and only way to raise children according to God's will. It is much, much stronger/stricter than Babywise and virtually impossible to just "take the useful, leave the rest". According to them, if you don't agree, then you are raising children to be tools and worshippers of Satan, and how many people have the will to fight that off? The whole program includes scheduled feeding, CIO at a very early age, being the absolute authority of children (and, by the way, daddy is authority over mommy...), "breaking" children to your (and, presumably God's) will, using beats with a rod as the only form of discpline from less than age 1 (including lovely things like striking a baby's thigh for fussing in his high chair). It is all about order, routine, and authority. Yuck, yuck, triple yuck and so forth.

Once people hear this in a church context, it is really hard for them to fight against or see the problems with this.