GD advice for 20 m.o. who delights in disobeying

[JustineSam&Nina]

DD is 20 mos. and is quite a handful! She is going through a very difficult phase--I hope it's a phase at least!--where she thinks it's the funniest thing in the world to do the opposite of what we want. She frequently runs away when we want her to come--she almost gave me a heart attack recently by running into the street! (I now have a virtual vise grip on her hand when we're outside.)

She also doesn't respond at all to our asking her to stop doing something--eating a crayon or play-doh, pulling a chair up to the kitchen counter to get something she shouldn't, turning the tv on (over and over again while I'm alternately turning it off), throwing food onto the floor from her highchair, smearing yogurt all over her legs, pulling off her pull-ups and refusing to put them back on even though she's quite capable (these are just examples from today ).

I assume the problem is she's too young to respond to verbal requests. So, I take away the crayon or play-doh, continue to turn the tv off, take her out of the highchair, etc., but I feel like I'm getting nowhere. And I'm yelling at her. A lot. And I hate this. But she seems to delight in not doing what we ask, or doing the opposite, and I find it so infuriating.

I'd love some GD advice. I feel like I'm losing my temper and yelling all the time now, and I never wanted to parent like that. Plus, I'm always in a crappy mood, either angry at her or remorseful for yelling. *sigh*

[megincl]

ooh! thanks for posting. i just came to post a similar question about DS, 22mo, who lately refuses to listen mostly to us telling him not to do something dangerous. oh the heart attacks!!! help?

thanks!
megin

[canadiangranola]

Hi Justine,
YOu sound really frustrated...I also have a 20 month old.
I think it might be helpful to step back from the situation a bit (hard when you're in the middle of it, I know)...remember...she's still just a baby.

I think that some of the best thoughts I've heard on kids this age is that they do so much of what they do on impulse...they are ruled by impulse, and the impulse is much stronger and more real to them than remembering that mommy said "don't turn on the tv anymore" or "don't eat the crayon."

Some of the things I've tried with my ds....
baby proof as much as you need to to create a safe environment that isn't full of no all the time. If you need to put your tv up higher for awhile, do so...then she can't reach it to turn it on/off....

Try to play a bit when you want her to do something. For example, ds will run away when it is time to change a diaper (and say "NO!" when asked if he pooped/needs a change.) We know he's poopy...but it's so much easier to round him up if we make it fun...."mommy monster is coming to get you...rarhhhh!" with tickles and laughs, suddenly, a potential conflict becomes a fun, physically affirming time for ds, and playing "mommy monster" really helps me to lighten up a bit too....and after all, I would rather tickle him and have a good laugh, and then change the dipe 2 minutes later, rather than carrying a screaming toddler to the bed and fighting through the whole time.

For the crayon eating/food playing thing?....I would do what you're doing. A warning "crayons are for drawing, if you eat them mommy knows you're done coloring adn we'll put them away."

I guess you could just feed her naked in the tub

The other thing i've been trying to do is decide why I have certain rules...if they aren't necessary, kwim? If my ds splashes water all over when he's in the tub...I could get mad...but it's really not a big deal, except for this societally appropriate thought i have in my adult head that "it's bad to splash"...for ds, it's fun, and interesting to see what the water does...etc...I don't know if that makes sense, I hope it does.

Anyway, I hope that helps a bit, I'm sure all the gentle, wise mamas here will have lots more ideas.

[fiddlefern]

Take my advise with some big chunks of salt, 'cause I only have an 8-month old. I have worked in a daycare setting, but of course that's not the same as being with your own little one all day.

Anyhow...

I think it helps to state what you DO want them to do, rather than what you don't want them to do. We're trying to get into the habit now with our little one, and it's amazing how hard it is to change the habits of my own upbringing.

Also, some of the mammas on this board have recommended the book, "Becoming the parent you want to be." I'm loving it. One of the suggestions in the book is that toddlers are involved in both physical and social exploration. They push your buttons because they are learning about emotions. Anger is a very interesting emotion to watch. Wow- look- when I do this, I get a reaction from mommy. Will I always get this reaction? What if I do this? It sounds like your wee one is probably also excited to realize that she CAN do something different than what you want, and is figuring out all about that.

Sorry I don't have any more specific ideas on how to deal with the behavior. Maybe just knowing she's a little scientist that HAS to learn about her autonomy and about emotions by doing what she is doing, will reduce your frustration a tiny bit. (Check in with me about that in about 12 months:LOL)

[meco]

Originally Posted by JustineSam&Nina

She frequently runs away when we want her to come--she almost gave me a heart attack recently by running into the street! (I now have a virtual vise grip on her hand when we're outside.)

This is normal to want to test limits and push the boundaries to see what they can get away with. She needs to know why this is not acceptable, and repeat this often. One day she will get it, but hand holding is a necessity for awhile. If my son runs off, he has to go in the sling as he knows running into the street is non-negotiable in Manhattan.

She also doesn't respond at all to our asking her to stop doing something--eating a crayon or play-doh, pulling a chair up to the kitchen counter to get something she shouldn't, turning the tv on (over and over again while I'm alternately turning it off), throwing food onto the floor from her highchair, smearing yogurt all over her legs, pulling off her pull-ups and refusing to put them back on even though she's quite capable (these are just examples from today ).

Well, these are normal creative toddler behaviors. Not normal to you per se, but every single toddler does them. They put things in their mouths, they like to problem solve (pulling the chair to the counter--if you really do not want her to get these things, they should be out of the way as much as possible), they like to show off things they can do, they cannot explain themselves well so they do other things, they like to be creative and of course strip...and more, all of the things you listed are normal. No discipline should "fix" them.

I assume the problem is she's too young to respond to verbal requests. So, I take away the crayon or play-doh, continue to turn the tv off, take her out of the highchair, etc., but I feel like I'm getting nowhere.

EVENTUALLY one day she will understand. Just now at 24 months, my son actually responds to commands and does as I ask now--not all the time, but most of the time. This is totally normal. Just keep verbally requesting these things as you physical help her stop (lead her away from the TV, stop art time, end the snack, whatever). But for now she will need some assistance, eventually she will be able to do it on her own.

And I'm yelling at her. A lot. And I hate this. But she seems to delight in not doing what we ask, or doing the opposite, and I find it so infuriating.

Of course because she is a toddler, of course she delights in pushing the limits. She is learning, experiencing, exploring the world. The things that she so obvious to us (i.e. throwing food is not socially acceptable) are not to her. She has to learn them....and she will with repetition.

Yelling will probably not help, and I have a mantra and it is this:
"Young children have intense feelings and needs, and are naturally loud, curious, messy, willful, impatient, demanding, creative, forgetful, fearful, self-centered, and full of energy. Try to accept them as they are."

And really this is true. They are all these things, and they do things that we do not like...but try to accept them. They will eventually stop doing it (I do not know many jr high schoolers who smear yogurt on their leg, turn the TV on and off, pull down their pants all the time, etc.)--in due time. In the meantime, foster her needs and behaviors.

All while enforcing verbally, this is why we do not do this, this is not acceptable for this reason...and eventually it will click. I promise I have a toddler too...one day some things made sense to him.

A great site for alternatives to behaviors you do not want around
http://www.awareparenting.com/twenty.htm (this is where the quote came from and has EXCELLENT resources).

I know it's hard, I have one too Just try to remember the mantra and it makes more sense--their behavior.

[meco]

Originally Posted by canadiangranola

The other thing i've been trying to do is decide why I have certain rules...if they aren't necessary, kwim? If my ds splashes water all over when he's in the tub...I could get mad...but it's really not a big deal, except for this societally appropriate thought i have in my adult head that "it's bad to splash"...for ds, it's fun, and interesting to see what the water does...etc...I don't know if that makes sense, I hope it does.

It does, and I totally agree


Very true--pick your battles. I.E. if it does not bother you she turns the TV on and off, well who cares? My son went through this stage, and now he does not do it any more.

[yogamama]

I agree with pick your battles. I have a very spirited 19 month old and she tests limits all day long (with an eye on me). I can SEE her testing me. She is also an instigator and she will pick fights with her older brother just to get attention. When I see that happening I know that she needs me to sit down and look at books with her or something.

I try to distract, move to another part of the house (together), take away the crayons and offer somthing else or just listen to her fuss for a few moments if need be (I figure on good solid "no" and the consequence is better than me yelling). I did unplug the tv the other day when she kept turning it on. That joke was on me because then I had to reset everything on the tv. What about the good old days when you didn't have to program that damn tv set!?

Hang in there. We will survive.
Kathleen

[pamelamama]

It's really hard when they get about two, and all of a sudden there's a huge exploration of boundaries, independence, etc.

This too shall pass, and yet... will return again at adolescence I believe! I sometimes tell myself this is training for the big stuff when they are older and there is more at stake :

[mistymama]

I agree with everyone who said choose your battles.

I've found with my son that usually if the behavior is not dangerous, and I can just ignore it for a day or two, he gets over it and never does it again. A few examples ... he was facinated for a few days with pulling out the vent covers from the floor and sticking stuff down them. After allowing him to explore them for a few days, he's never touched them again. Or opening the dryer door and pulling out all the wet laundry ... annoying as that was, after experimenting with it a few times, he was finished and has never done it again.

As far as food/messy eating goes ...well, as long as he's eating and happy, I'm more than happy to wash him down and use the dustbuster and mop on the floor afterwards. Maybe I'm super kicked-back, but the mess does not bother me at all.

I also let him put things in his mouth as long as it's not dangerous ... I mean, we all know a crayon is going to taste like crap :LOL so I let him figure that out for himself and he never does it again.

If he's doing something damaging or dangerous, I ask him to stop and if he does not listen, I physically remove whatever it is and try to distract him with something else.

Life is just too short IMO, to spend all day having battles with my 2 year old. I'd rather have fun with him, keep him safe, and maybe have a bit more mess to clean up at the end of the day. That's my choice and it works well for us.

[Piglet68]

Great advice above. Just wanted to reiterate that these are normal behaviors for that age. Also, try to stay away from the "they're just testing you" mentality. Kids have no concept of that. What they are doing, is learning about cause and effect. Your child is only JUST starting to figure out that you have feelings that may actually be different from theirs, and that they can affect those feelings. In the same way a child laughs in amazement when they push a button and out pops a smiley puppet on a toy, they laugh when something they do (going for a light socket) causes you to react. I mean, imagine how silly/funny we must look when we are angry/upset to someone who doesn't understand that emotion yet? There is also something called "counterwill", a term I learned about from Dr. Gordon Neufeld, that is a normal and natural part of toddlerhood which, despite what it may seem, is completely devoid of shady moral motivations. It's actually an important part of their development as individuals.

I find that keeping these things in mind diffuses my anger and frustration. That and recognizing that as hard as it is sometimes to pull myself away from what I'm doing to redirect my child, it's important. You simply cannot expect a child that age to just stop doing something because you say so. I, too, had the scare of my life when my DD suddenly ran in the opposite direction of me and out into the street so I feel your pain. Now I plan ahead and don't let her get that opportunity. I promise you these behaviours will stop and there will come a time when you can ask them to do something and they will listen. But if you want that to happen, don't start power struggles that inevitably ensue when we ask more of our children than they are capable of. :-)

[yogamama]

piglet 68 - Great point about avoiding thinking "they are testing you". I wrote in my post that I can see that my daughter is testing me. But your point is so valid! I think idea that they are testing us as adults is not helpful and sets us up as rivals. But I do think that a toddler is testing their environment and trying to figure out cause and effect.

Thanks for helping me think about this - we have really been at a point of high frustration lately. It helps me to re-frame what is going on during stressful moments.

Kathleen

[Bippity]

One thing I feel compelled to add is another wording thing. Sorry if it sounds a bit on the too picky side, but to me it's important to carefully choose the words we label our kids with. I'm just uncomfortable with the wording of things sometimes because it gets stuck in our heads & is hard to see things any differently from that, if YKWIM?

So excuse my ranting while I step up on my tiny little soapbox here...


I don't think babies/toddlers "delight in disobeying" because they are too young for the concept of "obeying" in the first place. In the second place, who wants a child who simply obeys, anyway?? It just doesn't encourage self-control, self-responsibility, self-discipline or critical thinking.)

Rant over... we now return to your regularly scheduled programming...

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Bippity

O
I don't think babies/toddlers "delight in disobeying" because they are too young for the concept of "obeying" in the first place. In the second place, who wants a child who simply obeys, anyway?? It just doesn't encourage self-control, self-responsibility, self-discipline or critical thinking.)

Rant over... we now return to your regularly scheduled programming...

I tend to agree. ( although we jokingly called Goo Ms Defiant One for a while)

Let's look at today's examples:

Yougurt on her legs: Yummy! And nice for the complexion... let it go and clean her later.

Eating crayons: Not allowed. Sorry sweetie, eating crayons will make you sick. If you insist on eating the crayons I have to move them until you can play with them with eating them. I don't want you sick. Would you like a snack instead.

Bringin a chair to the counter: Ok Mom, MOVE the item that she is going for... Not fair to put a forbidden item almost in reach and then when she problem solves and goes for it, you yell at her.

Turning on/off the TV: Um, mom, you made it fun... Everytime she turned it on, you turned it off WHAT A GAME!!! Can I play? Better solution? Redirect her to another room.

Pull-up off: Easy: Set a timer. when the timer goes off, she has the choice, either SHE puts on the pull-up or Y OU will do it for her. Simple and everyone wins. She gets time to run Nekked (as we call it at our house) and then she gets it back on. I have a rule of no sitting on chairs without at least a panty on (I just get the heebie jeebies) so Goo is good at getting stuff back on.

Throwing food onto the floor: Let her. And then when she wants more, tell her that she threw it all down... Let her think about it. Explain the consequence of throwing the food is that it is all on the floor. YUCKY. Have her help you pick it up

Deep breath. At 20 months she can certainly understand you. She is exploring her world. She wants to understand WHY can't I do this that or the other thing.

As for the street, that's a toughy. I insisted that Goo hold my hand when crossing a street or she owuld get picked up. No ifs ands or buts and after 2 months, it worked! Now we look for cars together

[Piglet68]

awesome post Foo!



(after bath time DD gets two minutes to take on her superpower persona...Naked Girl! doo-doodoo-Doo!!)

[Bippity]

...except at our house any food thrown on the floor becomes the immediate property of the dog. (DDoggy has gained 5 pounds since DD started solids!) : She did get a big kick out of feeding him just about everything from her tray for awhile, but she didn't like it when she wanted more & I said all gone - doggy ate it. (Of course, I gave her more to eat, but made sure it was something different from what she had & not necessarily as yummy.) After a few rounds of that, the dog doesn't get quite as many goodies.

Does eating crayons really make 'em sick? I've just let her chew on 'em for a bit and then say that it looks like she's not interesting in coloring and we move on to a new activity... Although it does make for an interesting poop once in awhile... never thought it might make her sick.

:LOL