non-GD friends who you respect...

[guerrillamama]

I have 2 friends, a couple, who are just wonderful, sweet, loving, generous, awesome people. And they are excellent parents. But they're not GD. I know that both of them were subjected to a lot of physical "discipline" in their childhoods, so their non-physical methods of discipline are a big improvement for them. But they're not GD. I see a lot of threads of people complaining about friends or family who are not GD and who the OP feels are not good parents. But wwyd if you really think they are good parents, they just don't do things the way you would?

Ok, their ds is about 27 mo. He's a toddler and does normal toddler things, including knocking over my ds, hitting him, that kind of stuff. Not in a scary malicious way, but in a "let's see what will happen" way. And then his parents discipline him, usually not the way I would... or think I would.

So today for example I was over at their house and my ds was crawling up the stairs (with me right behind him) and their ds kicked him --- VERY gently, not maliciously, it didn't hurt him but it wouldn't take much to knock him all the way down the stairs, so it was scary. His mom got very angry and tried to make him apologize to my ds. He refused to apologize, she took him in another room, lectured him for a long time, tried over and over and over to get him to say "sorry," he wouldn't do it (by this time, I'm thinking he's totally forgotten what he's supposed to be sorry for, but she thinks he does) and then she leaves him in the other room so he starts crying, comes out to the room where the rest of us are, crying his head off, she's still trying to get him to apologize... you can see how this just spiraled out of control. And b/c I've lurked on so many GD threads here, I can see that this is just a power struggle w/ no happy ending, but I can't figure out if or how to intervene.

Finally it was clear that he was completely past the point of no return, bawling and trying to climb into his mom's lap (which is full of her other baby) so I just reached out and pulled him into my lap and hugged him really really tight and sang to him and rocked him, and he did calm down. And then I took him and my ds back over to the stairs and sat on the steps with him in my lap and told him we were protecting my ds from the stairs. (I don't think he got that at all, tho.) But he was very happy to get some lovin and he was fine after that.

But I feel like his mom wasn't exactly thrilled, b/c she wanted to teach him something about his actions, and I turned it into a cuddle session.

So my question - using this situation as an example - wwyd? It's definitely not right for me to tell them what to do. I can't gently suggest things that have worked for me b/c I haven't BTDT - my ds is much younger. I loaned her my Sears Discipline Book; I don't know if she's read it or not. I know she's very busy (obviously) and not everyone is obsessed like me about researching every little aspect of parenting.

Any ideas?

[guerrillamama]

Either it was too long to read, no one has anything to say, or it just got lost...

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?

[annettemarie]

I don't know- it's a tough situation to be in.
I think of GD as a continuum that stops at spanking/yelling/punitive parenting and keeps going. I think the best you can do is model (in a very pointed way!) and answer questions when they ask.
I have friends who are fundamentalists who believe strongly in physical punishment. They actually have asked "Well, what will you do if they ____?" (Touching a stove comes to mind) I don't know if they really wanted to know or just wanted to argue, but I got to tell them my POV, and then, in real life, they see it in action, so maybe eventually it will click.
I think what you did was great. If his mama didn't like it, she can use her words and tell you, but otherwise, you were doing what you know is best!
Annette

[foreverinbluejeans]

Hope your friend learns from your example but don't count on it. When the mother was trying to force the child to say 'sorry', you might have said something to the child that you knew the child didn't mean to hurt your child. Sometimes having someone stick up for the child can make an impression on the parent or the child.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I think what you did was great. If his mama didn't like it, she can use her words and tell you, but otherwise, you were doing what you know is best!
Annette

Yea, I agree. I mean you can only do what you feel is best, and what feels right for you. I have friends that I care about but that are not GD and when I have dealt with their children they always say "You're so good with kids" or something like that. I say thanks, but that it's just how I feel kids should be treated. A gentle example can be a great thing.

[wednesday]

I was in a VERY similar situation just a few months ago with an older toddler who kicked my son, and then his father was insisting he apologize, and he just melted down into screaming. I really didn't know what to do. We were in a public place so I just went ahead and left. They are friends of ours and I know they are really struggling with their kids (don't want to get into all their private details, but it's a difficult situation). After that I just made sure to keep closer to both kids when they were together and try to prevent a similar conflict from happening again. I don't feel that any "advice" I tried to give would be at all appreciated.

[monkey's mom]

Lots of times I think parents tend to overreact b/c other parents or adults are around (lord knows I do!)--all that "they will think I'm a bad parent" stuff.

So I generally try to make good eye contact with the other parent and say, "It's OK. S/He is fine. Really. It's fine. They aren't even developmentally capable of empathy until they are FOUR. Please, it's really OK."

And most often the parent responds, "Are you sure? S/he's just so ________(agressive/bossy/violent). I don't want her/him to end up ____________ (a bully/an abuser/not knowing right from wrong)."

Then I empathize and try to talk about what I know about kids' development or GD or AP. Basically reassure them that this is normal stuff and here's what I've done or heard other people do to discipline that behavior in a gentle and positive way.

Nine times out of ten this works. People are just mostly afraid and feeling under-equipped.

I think what you did was great!

[Piglet68]

If it involves your child there are some things you can do.

Example: we were at one of those dropin toddler playtime events and a child pushed my DD out of the way of the slide, knocking her over. She wasn't hurt, but was pretty scared and upset. I was afraid the mother might do something punitive, so I said out loud to DD "that little girl wanted to use the slide, but she didn't have the words to tell you, so she pushed instead. it's not right to push people, is it? she didn't know how to tell you she wanted the slide...". then I gave the mother a look that said 'i'm not the least bit angry'. I think those two things made the mother feel like she didn't have to "get punitive".

I know when my child does something to someone else, i feel so bad that it affecs my response to my DD sometimes, so I appreciate it when the "victim" takes the lead.

[our veggie baby]

I agree with the poster before me...a lot of times, in this "keep up with the jones" society, when you're in public, it has a lot to do with the other parents being concerned with what YOU will think if they don't "do anything" than actually being concerned their child will turn into a chronic person pusher-downer know what I mean?

I think the parent of the pushed child or whatever, is doing a GREAt service stepping in if they think the other parent is going to get harsh or whatever---the previous poster gave a wonderful example!! That way you aren't "telling" the other parent how to be with their child so no one gets offended, but you let them know by how YOU react, that there is no need for huge lectures, yelling, etc...

[mamaduck]

I agree with monkey's mom. I would reassure the child's mom that I am not upset. I would *contantly* point out her child's positive attributes, and I would even go so far as to point out the positive side of his negative behaviors. His curiosity and tenacity, etc. And I would probably even praise *her* for being so involved and hands on, and for staying on top of him so well. I would empathize with her for being concerned about her child and wanting him to be "good." I would reassure her that her child's behaviors are normal for his age, and that it won't last forever. And then sandwiched in between all the reassurance and praise, I would try to offer some concrete suggestions that might be more effective than forced apologies and long lectures for such tiny kids.