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You tell me why I should continue being an ap parent... - Page 3

post #41 of 102
Quote:
I am a little hurt that you chose to single out my shared experience to critisize. I don't "advocate" drugging a kid to sleep, I've "resorted" to it. I don't advocate it, and I certainly didn't ask you, or anyone else, to.
I'm new around here, but I'm fairly certain that drugging a child in order to get them to sleep goes against not only AP style parenting, but MDC standards as well. We all do things that we may not be *proud* of, but I personally wouldn't tell anyone to try something that I knew was wrong.

By offering a drug to a child to help calm them down, to sleep, or whatever, teaches them a very negative message - at least IMO.
post #42 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkOnDemand
I'm new around here, but I'm fairly certain that drugging a child in order to get them to sleep goes against not only AP style parenting, but MDC standards as well. We all do things that we may not be *proud* of, but I personally wouldn't tell anyone to try something that I knew was wrong.

By offering a drug to a child to help calm them down, to sleep, or whatever, teaches them a very negative message - at least IMO.
Um, what negative message is that?
When I am wound up, I have a glass of wine. When I hit insomnia, I take a bendryl myself to help slow down my body. What I am teaching Goo is that some times our brain works too fast and we need to help our body relax and our brain can't do it alone.

Now, you may NEVER tell people of the things that you do that aren't AP, but most of us live in reality and Poor EdaMommy needs more reality than ideology at the moment.

It's that darn "You HAVE to be a perfect AP person" that makes one feel like a failure.

I am not trying to attack (as you said, you are new here), but trying to explain that AP is a spectrum and we all need to work with in that. And I don't see anything wrong with offering medicine to help my child.
post #43 of 102
OK, I'm not even going to get into the Benadryl thing. I understand the temptation, but I think a quick phone call to a pharmacist will give you all the information you need about it being a central nervous system depressant to permanently discourage the use of Benadryl in this situation.

I'm copying and pasting some stuff that worked for my older daughter, who is about as high needs as they come.

My personal belief is that you may be going through some exhaustion/ crankiness due to sleep deprivation. A few decent nights sleep may make a huge difference. My dh took over the night wakings for my older daughter after Rosie was born, and that made my life a lot easier. He would just take Gracie out for long walks in our BOB jogging stroller. She loved the middle of the night walks, and the stroller put her right to sleep.


**


Yeah, sadly, for some kids waking up that much is normal. My first dd woke up that much and she didn't start sleeping through the night on most nights until she was two and a half years old.

The thing that helped us the most to reduce the nightwakings (this did not eliminate them, but it cut them down by almost two thirds) was to make sure that she was very comfortable. Here is what we did:

1. A big snack right before bed (followed by the last day's toothbrushing, of course). This was something filling and easy to digest, and required us to move her biggest meal of the day to 4pm with smaller portions at dinner. The snack was usually Earth's Best Plums, Bananas and Rice or a banana or applesauce or a slice of whole wheat bread. Bland and filling.

2. We kept a sippy cup of ice water by the bed and always offered that first before nursing. Yes, she fussed at first, but this cut way down on the length of nursing as well as the number of wakings.

3. Temperature: a) Cool air in the room, even if it sent our AC bill through the roof.
b) Warm, soft pajamas with socks on her feet. The combination of soft warm pajamas (we love Hanna Andersson baby zippers http://www.hannaandersson.com) and cool air made a big difference.

4. Put all the dogs in the garage so their barking would not wake her up. If there is some noise that is waking your child up, figure out what it is and reduce or eliminate or mask it.

5. In our family, dh was a major insomniac and was a big part of the problem because he woke up off and on all night long and then crept (not nearly as quietly as he imagined) around the house, in and out of the bed, etc., repeatedly waking her up. He broke this habit when he realized it was driving everyone else crazy. Now he sleeps better than ever.

6. Soft, soft sheets and blankets. We use one hundred percent cotton jersey knit sheets, which feel like an old soft Tshirt.

7. Plenty of room on the bed. In our case, we have a kingsized mattress on the floor with a single mattress on the floor right next to it. That way, Gracie gets to snuggle up to her parents but she has her own comfortable space.

8. If, by some fluke, she takes a nap in the afternoon, I would wake her up if the nap went past 4pm, even if that meant she was cranky for the rest of the day. If we didn't do that, she would be up during the night, and then the horrible cycle would continue for a week. If you are working during the day, your child's care provider might be enjoying a late afternoon nap for your child that is wreaking havoc on your nighttime routine.

That's all I can think of right now. I think you might be amazed how big a difference this stuff makes, almost overnight, especially the snack/sippy cup thing. A lot of my children's night nursing was due to hunger and thirst. My mother said that in the sixties with her kids, there was a saying "feed them, don't wean them." I have to say that it seems to work.
post #44 of 102
Folks get down on the No-Cry Sleep Solution? We're working with it right now. Wish I could say that it's helping Tristan get down easier to naps, but I find it a very gentle book.

I am currently reading The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood by Kathleen A. Kendall-Tackett - not like you have a lot of time to read, I'm guessing, but I've found myself in a lot of what she's written. Makes me feel a bit less alone.

I have no advice for you as my boy is just 4 months old but I will be thinking of you. Maybe that's not worth a lot but it always makes me feel better, knowing others are thinking of me.

Jen
post #45 of 102
IMO- not drugging your children isn't an AP issue at all. I think many who are disgusted by AP would think it pretty wrong to give your kids medications to get them to sleep.
It's an ethical issue that many would disagree with. Not an "AP" issue.
post #46 of 102
You are an adult, and as an adult if you chose to take something to relax, that's on you. Your child does not have the same power of choice. I do live in reality, and no, I'm not the perfect textbook AP mom, nor do I claim to be. What I am is a mom, who tries to stay in tune with my children, and I do not follow any parenting philosophy per se, I just parent the way that feels right to me. If something makes sense, I'll give it a shot, but based upon my own logic, not that of the infamous Dr. Sears. I don't subscribe to any parenting magazines, don't own a parenting book, and I don't go by a label. The OP said she was doing the book AP thing, and offering benadryl doesn't fit that mold at all.
post #47 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
**I've tried the drugging thing : back when he was an infant and I had been awake for a week straight. it was a last resort. He is not affected by that either--- he kept on a cryin'!
Oh man, that's tough! He must really have a hard time settling down!

I take it you've tried chamomile tea? they also make an herbal relaxant for kids, but my dd would never take it. I took it though, and I think it helped. ;-)
post #48 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkOnDemand
You are an adult, and as an adult if you chose to take something to relax, that's on you. Your child does not have the same power of choice. I do live in reality, and no, I'm not the perfect textbook AP mom, nor do I claim to be. What I am is a mom, who tries to stay in tune with my children, and I do not follow any parenting philosophy per se, I just parent the way that feels right to me. If something makes sense, I'll give it a shot, but based upon my own logic, not that of the infamous Dr. Sears. I don't subscribe to any parenting magazines, don't own a parenting book, and I don't go by a label. The OP said she was doing the book AP thing, and offering benadryl doesn't fit that mold at all.
Sigh....

I was not trying to attack your APedness. I apologize if that came across. It struck me that the OP was feeling that if she couldn't do AP "right" than she couldn't do it at all.

I am trying to point out that this is not true. There are flavors of AP, an entire spectrum as well. I also rarely read parenting books. I also don't call myself an AP mom, I really use a mix.

Ok? Email/posts never quite put the words in the right tone. Please read this as "hey, I understand you POV, but I am approaching from a different angle. I see a way that the OP is asking for a blend without getting a party line" ok?


As for the benedryl, I think it is fair to put it out there as a suggestion for rare cases.
We don't use it often, but it is not something to attack someone for. Yes, I am aware of what an antihistomine does to the nervous system. I am also aware of what alcohol does. I am not ignorant on this cases. I take calculated risks... That is part of living. I make a calculated risk every day when I drive my children in a car. It would be safer to hide them away and never let them out.
post #49 of 102
Mama, I'm just joining in here now... I read your post thoroughly and skimmed most of the rest. I apologize if I've missed something.

I just wanted to tell you from someone who's been at the end of her rope with a high needs baby (who's now a toddler, but has calmed some since just after a year, fortunately for everyone) not to discount your needs. Being an attached parent should not mean that you lose yourself entirely for the sake of your child. That's not good for anyone anyhow. I second getting your husband involved whether your baby wants it or not. You're not putting him in danger or allowing him to CIO alone and you are strengthing the bond between them, which is a good thing. At about a year, my dh had to step in at night to allow me to sleep, and it was hard for EVERYONE for the first few nights. Ds screamed in his arms and I just wanted to go to both of them. But after a week they worked out an almost magical nighttime connection that I actually missed (but not as much as I needed my sleep). But I had to let them work it out together. And ds stopped waking at night. If he did, dh would go to him, but it rarely happens anymore. It worked for our family. Now this may not be considered by some as truly attached parenting, by nightweaning that soon but it really worked for us, and I was a better mama during the day because I was better rested. Now dh handles ds#1's bedtime routine, and I of course do all the baby's nighttime parenting.

I'm sorry you're going through this, and I really hope that you figure out something that works for your whole family soon.
post #50 of 102
My dd2 sounds exactly like your ds. She is 2.5 now and has transitioned from being a high need baby to a high need toddler. We have good hours and bad hours( I can't even say good days and bad days because it is hour to hour).

In my opinion, you need some sleep, first and foremost. I consider myself AP but have learned that I HAVE TO take care of my needs(at least some of them). And sleep deprivation is awful. It clouds everything else. I went through severe ppd with my dd2 because of sleep deprivation and lots of other things. Is there a way you can get late afternoon naps? Try to begin the night weaning? And I absolutely loved The No Cry Sleep Solution. I found it to be the only book that gave me any helpful advice.

As far as why you should keep being an AP parent? Well, I don't think it's at all black and white. Do what feels right, what you can live with, what your child can live with. I sometimes doubt my choices too. But I really believe that my dds are becoming sensitive, open, loving and kind people. I think that makes it worth it.

Don't beat yourself up. You are doing the best you can do with your situation.

And I HIGHLY recommend the book Raising your Spirited Child. That is my bible. The first time I read it, I cried because I thought I was crazy. I coudn't believe that they were talking about my dd!! Especially after having dd1 who had been so EASY and mellow.
post #51 of 102
((( Kimberley))),

My DD was also high need as an infant. I haven't had time to read all the responses but just wanted to share what saved us during that period of time: network chiropractic care. Many premature babies and those who had many interventions during/post-birth (like my DD, unfortunately) have serious sleep issues. Chiropractic totally changed our lives---DD started sleeping better after the first visit. Network chiropractic is a very gentle form of body work that uses gentle gestures to ease patterns of held tension out of the body. My daughter gradually became a totally different baby. I can't say enough about how this helped us. I was totally desperate from lack of sleep till we met our chiropractor.

I hope that things get better for you soon!
post #52 of 102
Hey,

I was just thinking as I read through some of the more contentious posts on here that it's always hard to give concrete advice on an AP board because AP parents are a wide range of passionate people with different ideas about many things.

These include religion, pharmaceutical drugs, recreational drugs, alternative medicine, food allergies, vegetarianism, politics, social issues, the media, feminism, natural childbirth and many many others.

I think it's important when offering advice and discussing matters to realize that not everyone shares the same beliefs about EVERYTHING here.

If it's only safe to talk about things we think everyone will agree with us on, we're stuck with maybe three topics. (Besides criticizing non-AP parents.)

I think it's fine that we all have strong beleifs, but I think we're really limiting ourselves if we don't allow for a wide range of differences of opinion.
post #53 of 102

wanted to add....

... to inezyv's list:

a white-noise machine (or humidifier) in your bedroom while sleeping.

a small dropperful of children's valerian on those nights when my dd (31 months) wakes constantly (4 x and up) to nurse. It really works and I don't feel the least bit bad about giving it to her.

when she won't settle down into sleep at night (too wound up - hitting her 2nd wind etc.) homeopathic coffea 30X - two doses if need be.

I have survived (ok, just barely) my first high-needs, spirited, screaming-constantly-as-an-infant baby (he is now almost 7 and *still* very spirited!) and my dd is a handful too.
post #54 of 102
Have you ever used Hyland's Children's tablets?

I'd really get some Hyland's teething tablets (they are herbal) even though it doesn't sound like teething is a problem. They contain chamomille (sp?) and settle my kids down. I'v been known to use them when the kids are really needing some help to settle down (tantrum before bed, on an airplane, overwhelmed on a trip). Especially for my now 4yo needy DD. She still takes them sometimes - even asks for them.

My mom doubted them until she saw it in action. My screaming, over stimulated DD fell asleep in 5 minutes after taking them.

We make ginger iced tea for tummy aches - you could try chamomile ice tea during the day to try to help him feel calmer.
post #55 of 102
You could also try the Bach Flower Essences Rescue Remedy, if Benedryl either doesn't work or gets your panties in a knot.
post #56 of 102
Just back to check if any of these seems helpful to you edamommy. Keep us updated (after you get some rest!)
AM
post #57 of 102
AP is "child led", not "child controlled". Can I kiss you through the internet, Chalupamom?

I couldn't agree more! SO MANY PEOPLE confuse these things, esp. at this age. Because their wants aren't always their needs - so it becomes very difficult to draw the line firmly and confidently.

My first child, a dd who's now five, was INTENSE. I mean, cried 24 hours a day, nursed nonstop all day and night, never quick to smile or laugh.... I thought for sure that I was a total failure as a parent. I got so used to jumping at her every demand that when she got older, it was habit. She wants to nurse and she wants to nurse NOW.... okay, honey, quick, whatever you want! Drawing boundaries so that we were ALL happy and healthy would have been a very good idea.

I nightweaned her when I was pregnant with my second and due in four months. I offered a paci every time she started to wail... the first night was difficult, the second night was bearable, and the third night was a piece of cake. I was still there, rubbing her, shushing her, singing to her, but I let her know that "mama's boobies are sleeping now. They are very tired."

After she weaned, I moved her into a separate bed with her dad. When my son turned one, he was very eager to sleep with his dad and sister, and he was nightweaned overnight without one peep!

After nightweaning, they slept through the night. If you have three nights, it's not too hard. Just don't give in, or it will send him very confusing messages and make the process a hundred times harder.

"Child led is not child controlled", just remember that! It is okay to set boundaries. You will be AP and using gentle discipline......... if you need to draw the line, draw it, mama! This is reality, not some idealogical novel we're writing.
post #58 of 102
I just wanted to add, to make sure that you understand:

BEING AP IS NOT ABOUT GIVING IN TO EVERY WHIM YOUR CHILD HAS. YOU WILL STILL BE AP EVEN WHILE YOU'RE SETTING HEALTHY, REALISTIC BOUNDARIES FOR YOUR CHILD.

Sorry, don't mean to shout, it's always easier in hindsight, eh?
post #59 of 102
I just want to jump in here with my sympathy, empathy and hugs as well. I agree that it will pass, but it often takes a very, very long time with a high needs kid, so it is not much help to hear at the point you are at. My HN babe is now *eight*! She puts herself to bed! And has been for a few years now. She was about five when things got better. Please note that I am a single mom, so I knew from the git-go that I would not be able to practice AP "by the book" and would have to tweak it. (Of course, that has not stopped me from agonizing over things! ) I started night weaning her at age 13 months (from her bedtime to mine) and next came from my bedtime until it was "light out", but I forget what age exactly, before 2, though. I found Dr. Sears' Baby Book very helpful on this. See his sections on burn out, night weaning and using baby as barometer. I also started moving her into her own bed in my room. That took about three years! :LOL At six she got her own room.

I have also resorted to sleep aids at times. Usually to break a downward spiral of sleep deprivation causing sleeplessness. (Whose bright idea was it for our bodies to work like that! :LOL) I also have used it when it was important to get a good night's sleep, like the night before a long road trip. We have used things like Valerian, pulsatilla, chamomile, belladonna, Rescue Remedy, and Calms Forte, depending on what the need is. Valerian is an herbal remedy, but it doesn't make it any better than Benadryl. Valerian is a central nervous system depressant. I'm not 100% certain Benadryl is. It is an antihistamine, but I'd have to look it up to see how it acts on the CNS.

With my first I held the nursing relationship as sacred and thought that I should not put any limits on it or use discipline in association with it. It made me miserable and things went a lot better when I instituted boundaries, such as no nipple twisting, you may switch sides a maximum of three times, no digging your toenails into Momma's legs, etc.

P.S. I second the recommendation of network chiropractic care. Amazing!

ETA: I want to say I hear you on the being ignored/lack of advice thing. Truth is that personality occurs in about 15% of people, so there are not as many mamas dealing with it. I think they often just don't know what to say.
post #60 of 102
yes yes yes
Rescue remedy is AMAZING


Our little spazzmonster (23 mo ds) has gotten it into his head that 3am is a DANDY time to get up and play. We went with it the first two times. BIG MISTAKE.
Now I keep him in bed with me....
last time he quieted down and went back to sleep
Last night though, he FREAKED out (as only a spirited child can/will do)
I had dh, who was spitting flames of evilness at this point, to get me the RR. He got it and stormed off to the bathroom
I squirted it in ds's mouth and the silence was amazing.
He quieted down...wasn't asleep, but wasn't awake....
and within 10 minutes was back asleep

It is expensive stuff, for us atleast, but we make sure we ALWAYS have some in the house.

Herbs for Kids makes a Chamomile Calm too...it is good and works great for an over wound babe.

No, neither will magically make your kiddo sleep through the night, but maybe they'll make the nighweaning a bit easier.
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