Help me please

[seren]

I want to be a better mother. A big part of this is gentle discipline. I finally got through to dh that our children do not need to be spanked, but we are trying to find a way to discipline. Our dd is 3.5. She is a wonderful little girl, but very willful. I can tell her not to do something and she does it anyway. I am not the most patient person, but am really trying. If she does something we don't want her to we try to talk to her, but she won't look at us. If I sit her on my lap she will close her eyes and let her head flop back. She refuses to look at me. We've been doing time out and it seems like it might be working.

Here is what happened today. I am sure I made mistakes, but I'm not sure how I should have handled it. Dd was very tired, but didn't want to take a nap. If she doesn't take a nap she gets very cranky. So I told her she needed to take a nap. She asked if she could watch a cartoon and I told her after her nap she could. She refused to go to her bed. I tried to pick her up and she went limp, which made it really hard for me to pick her up. I told her that I would count to three and if she was not in her bed she would not get to watch her cartoon after her nap. So I started counting. She just sat there grinning at me. I got to two and paused a bit longer than I did between one and two. I was giving her an extra minute to get up. Instead she just smiled at me and said *say it* It was actually said in a smart alecky way. SO I got really mad and said three. I told her she would not get to watch her cartoon now and finally got her into bed.

So, I'm sure I did some stuff wrong, but I don't know what to do. What do I do when she gets smart alecky like that. She does it on purpose. My sister teaches her to say things like this and I tell dd that it isn't nice and she is not supposed to talk to mommy and daddy like this.

So what do I do?

[Mizelenius]

Here are some ideas/thoughts that might HELP, but won't necessarily make things change.

First of all, I recommend the book Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline to everyone. I feel like it's the only book I need! Anyway, that's where I get most of my ideas.

I would say, in the case of the nap (in my experience) no amount of bribing/consequences work. They just don't, no matter how tired my DD is. (I'm amazed you got your DD to sleep!) So, by giving her the cartoon option, it was a pretty impossible situation. I would avoid, at all costs, situations like that that you can't actually control.

The same is true for getting her to look you in the face when you are upset . . .my DH tries to do this with our DD (she's almost 3) and I think it's one of the hardest things for a child to do. So, cut her some slack and don't worry if she's not looking. She's very likely feeling bad, and it is VERY hard to face someone you are disappointing/upsetting-- it's like pouring salt on a wound. Even though she's not looking, I can bet that she IS listening.

The other thought is to always give your daughter 2 win-win choices. In other words, "go to sleep and then watch a cartoon" OR "stay awake and play by yourself." I know it's difficult to deal with the crankiness, but it might be better than setting yourself up for a battle.

As for the smart-alecky stuff, I think the biggest thing to do in this case is to NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY and (this is very tough) NOT REACT. Again, this is very difficult, but if you take it very matter-of-factly (don't look sad, mad, happy, laugh, whatever) she'll see she can't push your buttons. She's testing you (which I'm thinking is very common for that age) so just make sure you pass by NOT REACTING.

I hear you about making mistakes as a parent . . .there are so many days that I wish I could do over or get a 2nd chance at. I could just kick myself for the way I've lost patience. Thankfully, we DO get many chances to "practice" being parents, and children are generally very forgiving. My goal is to not feel guilty about the past, but to learn from it, and keep focusing on making good choices. It is hard to let go of the guilt, but one of my motivations for doing so comes from the book I mentioned-- it discusses that how we treat ourselves is how we'll treat our children. So, if I am critical of myself, then you can bet that I will be critical of my DD.

!

[monkey's mom]

First of all, congrats on trying something new!

Secondly, you may be in for a rough spell while everyone figures out the new paradigm.

I would just focus on saying 'yes' more and being as nice as possible to your child. Sounds silly, but modeling kindness goes a long way. Tell her how you feel when she doesn't listen and offer your assistance as much as possible.

Sometimes handling the next interaction as ideally as you can (and I mean as close to YOUR ideal of parenting/discipline) is do-able. Figuring out how to do the next ten things is overwhelming!!

Re. the looking away thing: I've heard that toddlers will do that when they are getting overwhelmed by a situation. Maybe keep it brief and as positive as possible.

There are lots of great books in the sticky at the top of the page and lots and lots of good threads for a wide variety of situations/challenges/behaviors.

And posting questions for each encounter that baffles you is good, too. Like the nap situation--I might have just let the nap go--sounds like you already had to deal with cranky and an unpleasant power struggle--kind of lose/lose. But, maybe offering to put on cartoons and make a little 'bed' on the floor for you two to snuggle up and unwind might have helped. Or offer a nice story in her room, if TV gets her more wound up. If she refused, I might just go in there and make a big deal about getting the bed all inviting, a special cup of water, fluffing her pillow, picking out a book, etc. Make it irresistable instead of something that has to be forced (b/c if it has to be forced, it's gotta suck, right?)

I like the Natural Child Project website a lot--there are a number of very good, brief essays there that might help you see things in a different light--more cooperative and less adversarial, you know?

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted!

[seren]

Oh you ladies are so wonderful! I was so afraid I would get negative comments.

I think I need a new approach to nap time. I really do believe she still needs one. If she doesn't have one then all of us are cranky. Usually I put her in bed and then I go lay down in my bed with her brother. Most of the time after he is asleep I let her come in with us, but the last few times she wakes him up. She doens't calm down and fall alseep. Maybe I should go back to doing what I used to, cuddling with her. I could let her watch a cartoon while I get ds to sleep, then have her come cuddle with me. Maybe that will work. Plus, when she sleeps it allows me a nap, something I really value right now. Not sleeping well at night with this pregnancy. SO I will try that.

I have been talking to her when she's upset. I tell her that it's okay to be sad or upset, but that it's not okay to hit her brother or whatever she's doing when she is upset. I've been learning. When my siblings are over (9 and 11) and they don't want to play she gets upset, she doesn't understand. So we talked about how it's hard to be three. That seems to be her favorite phrase now when she's upset.

Anyways, thanks for the ideas and I will e-mail the library tonight about that book and go look at the website. Thanks so much for the kind words!!!!

[Jules411]

It is possible she is transitioning out of nap. At 2.5, my dd started the transition and no longer naps. It is a huge adjustment. I decided to give her options (take a nap, listen to books on tape (your library may have some if you don't) or other quiet activity). She also watches a video each day now. It took prob. at least a month to get used to being awake the whole day. She fell asleep many times at 4 or 5pm. We moved her bedtime up half an hour because she needed a little more sleep and was clearly not getting it from a nap.

Giving her choices as much as possible will help. Also adjusting your attitude and expectation toward nap is helpful. I felt relieved when I resigned myself that she was done napping and we needed to find another routine for the early afternoon.

I am glad no one "yelled" at you, too! I've seen a lot of that here in various threads and it is sad. Everyone is trying to do the best they can on the very hard job of being a parent! Good luck to you!

[bubbles]

I just wanted to give a plug for the book Love and Logic: Magic for Early Childhood. We are finding this method to be the best we have tried. It is really working for us. It is gentle and does fit w/ an AP philosophy. We also use the book based on the same method for teenagers to help w/ our teenage nephew. Hope you find what works well for you.

[seren]

I checked the online library card catalog and they have the book, but it's overdue. So I put a hold on it. Hopefully it will come in soon.

I don't know if dd is ready to give up her naps. And I don't know if I'm ready for her to. This pregnancy is wearing me out so much. I guess I should quit being selfish and think of what's best for her.

[Mizelenius]

Originally Posted by seren

I don't know if dd is ready to give up her naps. And I don't know if I'm ready for her to. This pregnancy is wearing me out so much. I guess I should quit being selfish and think of what's best for her.

I hear ya! DD has pretty much outgrown her naps . . .she needs SO little sleep but I DO need one (I always need a lot of sleep, plus I'm also pregnant). Frankly, this is where TV comes in handy, and I also try to get myself to bed really early . . .I can see from your post that this won't help, though, since we both seem to have troubling sleeping at night. I dread nighttime since I know I won't sleep well!

I hope the book gets returned soon!

[Jules411]

I felt the same way about the nap thing...in denial that it was happening, but after such difficulty keeping her quiet and her waking my 1year old, I gave up. As much as I resisted the video thing before, she does watch about an hour daily during dd2's nap because I need a little break. I'm prgenant, too and wish we could ALL nap, but it is not to be. Hopefully you can get her back into napping routine. If not, just know that is takes awhile for her to adjust to not sleeping...lots of cranky afternoons, falling asleep at 5pm, etc. It is a hard transition, but it, too shall pass. Then put her to bed earlier!!