playful parenting - Page 6

[PM]

Great thread!

I'll share yesterday evening's playful moment.

Dd got a bit wound up with her babysitter yesterday afternoon and really needed a physical outlet. She was starting to bounce off the walls; I was starting an internal dialogue that sounded a bit like this: "Gawd, I just want some peace tonight. I don't want to have to deal with one of her moods." (I'm pregnant and sleepy.) She, of course, was picking up on that and getting irritated herself. She was also hungry. But there wasn't much in the house to eat, so I kept putting her off, hoping she could wait till we got something better than another piece of toast with jam.

I needed to get her out the door so we could go grocery shopping when papa finished work. She resisted because I wasn't exactly doing things nicely -- stuff like, "Come on! Let's get going" in my grumpy, I-don't-want-to-do-this voice. I was putting on her shoes, kind of frowning and grabbing each foot and pulling it towards me to tie the laces. And in my head I was sympathizing with the poor kid, telling myself how she's tired, hungry -- nothing she can control, nothing I should be irritated at.

So, suddenly I just started this ridiculous laugh, the kind you do when you're a 9 year-old kid. Bwwaaahhhaa hhaa HAAA HAA. At first she didn't like it (she has issues about being laughed at -- long story). But then she started to giggle. I tickled her a bit, and she laughed. And then, because I was still feeling particularly tense, I started to play karate (she learned about this somehwere and thinks it's the funniest thing). So we started doing these karate chops and yelling karate chop! (not the usual fake Karate sounds that seem rather sterotypical/racist to me)

Anyway, we're a choppin and a kickin, and she's laughing and having fun. At one point, I had to pee before we left, so we started saying totally silly things like Karate Pee Pee Chop! (what kid doesn't love the peepee caca talk?)

Suddenly, she looked at me and said, "Mommy, this makes me so happy!"

And we continued playing karate down the stairs and outside in the driveway. By the time papa came to pick us up we were both cool & relaxed!

[muse]

Originally Posted by ParisMaman

Suddenly, she looked at me and said, "Mommy, this makes me so happy!"

Awww, that says it all eh? Makes me totally want to buy this book.

I just had a baby after a pretty tiring pregnancy and feel like I've forgotten how to have fun with my DS (3 1/4 yrs). He's also changed a lot with the new baby, and with just being a 3 yr old.

All my creativity and tolerance has gone out of the window and I'm constantly nagging him - which gets nowhere - and then getting frustrated, then angry...usually all ends up in tears with me having to apologise to DS for losing it, and him apologising to me for "making me angry". Same story with DH, who I never saw angry EVER before he had a 3 yr old...Lately DS keeps saying he wants to make us happy, and it breaks my heart, that should not be his responsibility.

Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...

[PM]

Muse, I haven't even read the book yet. :

I've used playful parenting (ideas I've read here) for a while, but not consistently. I subscribed to this thread when it started (Embee is so inspiring! ).

I think what I did really worked (the silly laughter); growling, also, seems to work -- if you do it playfully, that is!

I really know what you mean about your dh. My dh is the calmest guy in the world, but my dd can get him to yell and grab (well, he'll yell no -- not the kind of yelling most people think of, but it's a biggie for this guy, believe me!). He uses non-violent techniques now, and those are working for him -- for the most part.

[Denise K]

Originally Posted by muse

Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...

This is one of my biggest struggles too. The one thing I'm rememebring from the book (which I haven't read in a while) that helped me is more of an attitude--that's it's OK to not be in control of your kid, and it's OK to just be silly sometimes. I tend to be afraid of what will happen if I am not serious--everything will just spin out of control. Those moments when I do manage to see a rage situation coming, and choose to go down a play track instead, are really good. It doesn't have to be outrageously silly or brilliant-- Getting DS to walk along the sidewalk instead of whine to be carried, I can gripe and be firm with him or I can say "Oh no! Look at all these cracks! We have to jump over ALL these cracks! OH, can we DO It?"

I find that if I can wrestle with DS sometime during the day, it helps my mood as well as his. Gives me more energy. Lets me, too, get out my aggressions in a playful and not hurtful way.

[Embee]

Originally Posted by ParisMaman

So, suddenly I just started this ridiculous laugh, the kind you do when you're a 9 year-old kid. Bwwaaahhhaa hhaa HAAA HAA. At first she didn't like it (she has issues about being laughed at -- long story). But then she started to giggle. I tickled her a bit, and she laughed. And then, because I was still feeling particularly tense, I started to play karate (she learned about this somehwere and thinks it's the funniest thing). So we started doing these karate chops and yelling karate chop! (not the usual fake Karate sounds that seem rather sterotypical/racist to me)

Anyway, we're a choppin and a kickin, and she's laughing and having fun. At one point, I had to pee before we left, so we started saying totally silly things like Karate Pee Pee Chop! (what kid doesn't love the peepee caca talk?)

Wow, us too! What is it about karate chopping? DH, in one of his silly moments a few nights ago (since DS was a tiny babe, it's been DH's mission in life to get him to laugh, really laugh), I was sitting out in the office when the two of them came in and started their karate chopping. Mainly, it was Dad doing the demonstrations and DS laughing so hard he had to run to the bathroom. Indeed, these are the kind of moments that can make or break a situation and while it's not easy getting through our own grumpiness, it sure does pay off for all. I wonder if you happened to be imagining how that trip to the grocery store would have went had you not been able to switch gears and "find the giggle." I've had more than my share of teeth grinding, jaw clenching moments on route, just hoping to break through my own baggage long enough to save us both from grocery store mayhem.

Originally Posted by ParisMaman

I've used playful parenting (ideas I've read here) for a while, but not consistently. I subscribed to this thread when it started (Embee is so inspiring!)

Ah ParisMaman, thanks.

Originally Posted by muse

Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...
Yesterday 04:40 AM

This is a great question (indeed, I struggle with this too). The book has an entire chapter devoted to "accepting strong feelings, YOURS and theirs."

One thing Dr. Cohen mentions as a suggestion for angry parents is to "act angry" when your really are angry. Sort of an over-dramatization of your real feelings--adds silliness but also allows you to release some of your strong feelings. If DS is lollygagging and I NEED to get out the door (for a bonified appointment or for sanity purposes), sometimes I'll take on the silly drill sargeant voice, "ALRIGHT! That's it! No more of this lollygagging! Time to ship up and shape out!" Silly I know... I usually follow up with marching (ok, stomping) out the door loudly, DS right behind. When he's stalling at bedtime, I might say, "THAT'S IT! YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO BRUSH YOUR TEETH EVER AGAIN!" And DS (very receptive to the idea of reverse psychology I should add), says, "OH YES I WILL! WATCH ME!" And then me, "ah well, if it means that much to ya, I guess we can make an exception." Sheepish. I tell ya, this little suggestion has helped mucho. Not only does it indeed help me release some of my anger, it breaks the tension in a big way and usually gets us laughing silly.

Originally Posted by Denise K

It doesn't have to be outrageously silly or brilliant-- Getting DS to walk along the sidewalk instead of whine to be carried, I can gripe and be firm with him or I can say "Oh no! Look at all these cracks! We have to jump over ALL these cracks! OH, can we DO It?"

Denise - these are the very things that get us through the day. At present, DS is obsessed with counting everthing. If we're on the way home and he asks to be carried, I might suggest out of the blue that we count the lines in the pavement or are "how many steps is it to the car." If I'm quick on my feet, I can think these things up all day. If I'm not... oh, I hate to think about those days.

The best,
Em

[muse]

Ok, I've got the book on order..

I talked to a friend about it who I thought would be interested and she was very resistant, saying she feels it's really important that parents are an authority figure and silliness/playfulness could interfere with that...hmm..what would you say to that?

I think personally I only really feel that's true for me when it comes down to safety issues, everything else is more negotiable...

[Tanibani]

Originally Posted by muse

I talked to a friend about it who I thought would be interested and she was very resistant, saying she feels it's really important that parents are an authority figure and silliness/playfulness could interfere with that...hmm..what would you say to that?

I got it and was skimming it yesterday. I really like it. I first heard of it from Aletha Solter. She wrote these books
:http://www.awareparenting.com/books.htm

She had a great handout on the effects of typical forms of discipline. Here ya go:

Comparison of 4 approaches to Discipline by ALETHA SOLTER (AWESOME handout)
1 - Authoritarian - (violent)
Who has the power? Parents
Type of control? Control by physical or verbal abuse
Methods used - Hitting, spanking, threatening, yelling, humiliating, blaming, criticizing
Home atmosphere - Tense, rigid, oppressive
What children learn - Blind obedience to authority, violence, competitiveness, lying, no self-discipline
How children might feel - Angry, hostile, scared, powerless, low self-esteem
What can happen during adolescence - Children rebel, leave or "act out" (fights, drugs, etc...) become hurtful to others; parents run out of power

2 - Authoritarian (non-violent)
Who has the power? Parents
Type of control - Control by material & emotional means
Methods used - Rewards - money, privileges, treats, hugs, praise, attention. Punishments - loss of privileges, isolation, withdrawal of love & attention, making child feel guilty
Home atmosphere - Orderly, consistent
What children learn - Conformity, apple-polishing, deviousness, competitiveness, no self-discipline
How children might feel - Resentful, angry, misunderstood, manipulated
What can happen during adolescence? Children withdraw emotionally, rebel, search elsewhere for unconditional love; parents run out of power.

3 - Permissive
Who has the power? Children
Type of control - no control
Methods used - Pleading, bribing, nagging, yielding, lecturing, waiting, self-sacrificing, rescuing, neglecting
Home atmosphere - chaotic, inconsistent
What children learn - how to manipulate others, no self-discipline
How children might feel - confused, guilty, insecure
What can happen during adolescence - Children are selfish, dependent, demanding, irresponsible, parents resent children

4 - Democratic
Who has the power? Everybody
Type of control - self-control
Methods used - unconditional love, modeling, encouragement, filling needs, listening to feelings, natural consequences, problem solving, family meetings
Home atmosphere - Relaxed, orderly, flexible
What children learn - Self-discipline, responsibility, problem-solving skills, respect, cooperation
How children feel - happy, secure, confident, well-loved, high self-esteem
What can happen during adolescence - Love & respect between parents & children, no need for children to rebel or withdraw.

Muse, now you can answer your friends question.

From what I have been reading, the author believes that playfulness increases cooperation (rather than encouraging resentfulness if an authoritative figure is too "heavy handed") and maintains that close connection throughout adolesence.

BTW, she also highly recommends the P.E.T. book, which explains HOW to be democratic (I just got that too.) Her 3 books are also incredible.

[muse]

Tanya, thanks for that! Very very interesting; led to some interesting discussions with Dh...

[Denise K]

Wow, I want MY house to be like that Democratic one!

About parental authority: I have this issue in a big way some days. I definitely struggle with fears about not being in control of my kid, even though I don't believe in controlling people (in my intellect, anyway...). And yet I don't want to be a servant in my own home either... There is a great description of the unhelpful parenting this can lead me into in
the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline." Whoever recommended that book (on this thread somewhere), thank you! I would never have read it, due to hating the title. But it IS a great complement to PP, and is giving me a clear path to work on dealing with conflict and being a better role model. It's definitely what I was asking for in my life, and I recommend it to others here who are struggling with anger. Hooray for all the awesome authors out there!

DS is loving Rompus Walrus (wrestling) as much as ever--particularly games where he gets to knock me down a lot, or where I fall on him and am too weak to get up. Giggle giggle giggle. This is the best antidote to the nap-skip blues at 3 p.m., and boy is hard to drag myself to do it....
The other day, after hanging around while I was dealing with my period in the bathroom (he usually avoids that), he ended up orchestrating a huge playacting story in which he protected me by slaughtering all manner of other animals (he was a horse, I think) and getting blood everywhere. Quote from three-year-old: "I bit its head off. See all the bloody footprints?" I love trusting his process--it's like science fiction. Without the kind of reassurance PP offered on violent etc play, I'd probably be trying to stop him from killing everything--instead I can just participate and enjoy his imagination, while trying not to crack up from the total wackiness of it all. Helps me remember how much I love him, instead of always getting bogged down in anxiety and trying to fix him.

[Embee]

Originally Posted by Denise K

Without the kind of reassurance PP offered on violent etc play, I'd probably be trying to stop him from killing everything--instead I can just participate and enjoy his imagination, while trying not to crack up from the total wackiness of it all. Helps me remember how much I love him, instead of always getting bogged down in anxiety and trying to fix him.

Denise, I too am soooo soooo grateful to PP for this very reason. DS can be so very fearful, but yet drawn to those things he fears. I've got "bloody dinosaurs" laying all over my house. I've just learned to walk around them and clean up where necessary.

You were mentioning "Easy to Love..." which surely does come well recommended in these parts. I will have the check it out one of these days. I recently read, "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn, and I'm finding it to be a great compliment to "PP" as well. My recent quote is that if "UP" is the book that tells us that it's the "relationship with our child" that truly counts, well then it's "PP" that shows us one of the best ways to strengthen and nurture that relationship. Indeed.

The best,
Em

[ladyelmo1]

I haven't managed to read this whole thread quite yet, but I will. Ran into it last night, read first two pages, and am going out to buy this book today. This sounds wonderful.

-Melissa

[Embee]

Did anyone happen to catch the chat with Larry Cohen today? I wasn't able to be there (DH uses the computer during the day for work). Does anyone know if I can access a transcript or something? Guess I'll go searching about for something like that.

I'm hoping this thread might revive a bit? I have been having the hardest time playing lately. DS weaned a few months ago, my hormones are nutz, our relationship is changing and... somedays I just can't stand one more minute of playing dinosaurs. The biggest irony comes today when I grabbed PP off the shelf and began to read the chapter, Learn to love the games you hate. Of course, the whole time I was trying to read, DS wanted to play, and I kept putting him off so I can read about how to play with him. I've got problems.

Lately, I just haven't been feeling as confident about our play. As Cohen describes, it seems to have become very repetetive and I'm not sure if it's just DS being his focused self or if we need to broaden the horizons a little. He has things he really needs to work through (social stuff mostly), but we haven't happened upon a good formula for doing that. Our old methods seemed to be unhelpful, or perhaps its because I haven't been putting my all into it?

Anyone else having any thoughts about play lately? Suggestions, experiences, co-misery? It's like I know what I need to do, but can't seem to get there mentally. It's me me me! Can't. get. out. of. my. own. head.

Help.

The best,
Em

[Mary-Beth]

Hi Embee...if you find the transcipt please let me know. I missed it but was so interested. Anyway...what has helped me is to focus on being present when you play. Don't think about what you want to "work on" or figure out what you child may be processing (or what you're processing!). Really be present. It takes practice. Suspend any judgments and outside thoughts. A friend of mine says this, "No place to go, nothing to do but be right here loving you." I remind myslef of that going into a playtime session.
I'll also add that when it's not your time to play then freely disengage from the play and give yourself time to attend to those other thoughts that might otherwise creep into your mind. I notice that I sometimes feel like I "should" always be playing. It'n not realistic. When I let go of that I do much better. If my dd wants to play while I'm wanting to do something else I tell her I'm really looking forward to playing in (name time).
I just thought it was worth mentioning so you could check in with yourself and see if that applied to you as well.

[Denise K]

Yeah, embee, I'm there lately too. Me me me--I have so much to do and it's so important and hard, can't we play something a little more stimulating before I go nuts, there must be a shortcut...... Also I got another black eye wrestling a couple weeks ago, which always slows me down awhile (I am prone to black eyes ).

And weaning is huge. I weaned DS last October, and it's only now that it's starting to feel really settled and not loaded anymore for either of us. I think.

Here is what's helping me: I did make a Mama Special Playtime (MSP) date and put it on the calendar each week. He loves it--just the idea that we will play whatever HE wants. And I love the fact that the timer is set, so if we're playing Cars it will only be for 20 minutes. :LOL

The rest of the time when I play with him, I'm not always playing exactly what his favorite thing is--I try to find common ground more. We go outside, and sometimes I MAKE myself just sit down and dig in the dirt instead of messing with the garden or something. Or running home from the park singing silly songs. When I'm outside I'm better at everything. And having the MSP date gives me permission to make the play something I enjoy too, at other times--he wants to play Bulldozer, and I like to build houses out of twigs, so we can do a construction site together.

This is on good days.....some days I think it is OK to pat myself on the back for not yelling at anybody. (If I manage that.)

Also we both like the wrestling game someone suggested, where I surprise him with a grab--he walks across the bed to nibble my leaves (I'm a tree) and then I roar and throw him on a pile of pillows. About thirty times. It's easier for me to get myself to do that than all-out full-body wrestling, sometimes.

A practical note--my computer is taking forever to download this immense thread now. Can we start a new one? Would anybody mind?

[Embee]

Denise, Mary-Beth, Thanks so much for the pep talks/advice. I needed that!

Things are much MUCH better in the past several days. I think for the most part, boredom was our biggest issue. Like I mentioned, DS recently weaned (he's been working on it since around Christmas time and as of last week, hasn't asked to nurse in a month), and with hormones awry and the weather windy and cold, we've been cabin fever city. EEK. By mid-last week, I finally decided "we're getting out of this house" no matter how windy, how cold! It worked. Got our juices flowing and although we're still having moments here and there, I know that being "present" is what he truly needs (thanks Mary-Beth, good reminder and words to live by!). When I drop the "issue playing" stuff, DS goes where he needs to. When our activities are varied and we get some fresh air each day and a few outtings each week, things are great.

The thing is, we went to the beach today. Yes, there were times when he felt a little threatened by older rambuncous kids and he donned his "dinosaur roar" mode, but he was also respectful of people's space while roaring about and even stopped to explain what he was doing to a few older ladies walking on the beach. Once, he'd gotten used to the people running around nutty at the beach, he relaxed and we played hard and had a great day--FOUR HOURS at the beach, just him and I playing. The favorite being the chase game... we run after each other (taking turns), and somehow I can seem to catch him, but he always catches me and we fall in a pile and laugh, over and over and over... its the best. By the end of out time at the beach, he actually wanted me to "catch him" and I did... albeit in a falling all over myself sort of way... if I hadn't gotten sunburned, I'd march us right back there tomorrow!

Thanks again!

Em

[wednesday]

I startd a new thread here.