frustrated w/ dh's pro-spanking mentality

[babykaoss]

i'm confused.

my dh is completely supportive of the ap lifestyle as far as the co-sleeping, extended breastfeeding has been concerned.......but lately as our 17 month old daughter has become a bit more spirited and less willing to listen.....started throwing temper tantrums, etc he is starting to argue with me on the benefits of spanking.

it seems no amount of logic, references, quotes.......gentle explanations of why i believe we should never spank her are getting through to him. i got so upset the other night because she kept pulling at the door on the dvd player and dh yelled from the couch that if she didnt stop it he was going to.......and he stopped talking and looked at me. i said, you're going to do what? and he said She needs to be spanked. i just took her to play at her friend's house for the rest of the day.

we just cannot come to an agreement on the subject........and me getting hysterical and telling him that if ANYONE hit my daughter, whether it be his parents, mine, a babysitter OR HER FATHER, that i would take her and leave..........well lets just say that didnt help.

i really REALLY need advice. i'm scared. this is something i believe so strongly that we should NOT do that i am really concerned that if he spanks her i will have to leave him. he simply doesnt believe a 'light smack' on the hand or bottom is bad for her. other than this, he is a wonderful supportive father and husband.

please please help.

[mommyofshmoo]

I think an important thing to do is to start implementing some concrete discipline measures right now that your husband can be on board with.

He wants to spank because he doesn't know what else to do.

I would suggest reading and having him read the Discipline book by Dr. Sears. I found it way more directive and firm than I expected and it got me off to a good start when dd was little.

You need to find a way to get dc to stop what she is doing- I found physical redirection helpful at that age. It's also helpful for your husband to learn how to say "no", enforce "no", and ignore or manage the ensuing tantrum without loosing his cool.

I'm having this problem in a way with my dh because he doesn't understand how to be firm wiothout being punative. He also feels the need to escalate conflicts with our dd (2.5.) It drives me nuts! He tells her she's in "trouble" that she's being "naughty." Grrr... It's so stupid because it gets to be hard to tell who is the two year old in the situation.

It's hard to blame him too much because his parent- while great parents- were terrible disciplinarians. They did nothing, nothing, nothing, then yell, then spank.

Anyway- my experience so far is that when dh sees you being a firm, consistent disciplinarian who gets results, he'll follow your lead.

Good luck, and I feel your pain!

[chfriend]

Okay, this may be a stupid question, but would your husband be willing to put the dvd player (and other similar temptations) out of your baby's reach?

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by babykaoss

she kept pulling at the door on the dvd player and dh yelled from the couch that if she didnt stop it he was going to.......

I agree that you need to toddler-proof. Create a "yes" environment so that there are fewer of these situations to deal with.

Other than that, one thing jumped out. Specifically "dh yelled from the couch", lol. Ok, I've done it, my dh has done it....but what we learned is that you have to get *off* the couch, get dd's attention (touch her, look her in the eye, etc), and then it is easier to redirect. I'm sure you know this stuff already, but it sounds like a suggestion that might help dh next time. I mean, he would have to get off the couch to spank her anyway, right?

I am sorry you are dealing with so much opposition to gentle parenting . I do think that this will be less of an issue when he has some strategies that really work. Another thing that might help....a lot of spanking advocates do not even advocate spanking a child 17 mo (I think). And, further, a lot of spanking advocates do not advocate spanking a tantruming child. So maybe those arguments would hold him for a while, until you find some other discipline strategies that work for your family.

[sunnmama]

ah, one more thing. How about, instead of focusing on discipline (to spank or not to spank...what to do instead), focus on normal child development. I am thinking about tantrums specifically, although this is useful for lots of behavioral "problems". Tantrums, while unpleasant, are normal and developmentally appropriate. They require no "discipline" at all. The same for messing with the DVD player....requires no "discipline", just reduced access to the DVD player. It is simply not age appropriate for a 1 year old to remember what things are "off limits" and heed those instructions, kwim? That is not a lesson a toddler must "learn" in order to grow into a child with self control. Self control comes thru maturity, not punishment.

[mommyofshmoo]

I very much agree with sunnmamma that 1 yo's are not able to distinguish from off limits things and other objects.

But I do think your dh needs to lean how to say no appropriately. Like say - getting off the couch to deal with the issue.

the sad fact is that most people that spank just do so when they get irritated with a child, and it's not really "discipline" at all because it has less to do with what the child is doing (and nothing to do with what the child needs) and everything to do with the parent venting frustration.

I guess I'm just suggesting that you and your dh explore some gentle discipline measures- including redirection, babyproofing, physical redirection, keeping a good schedule, and maybe some variant of gentle time out. You need to come to and understanding both of what you will do, and what you won't do.

[kamilla626]

Ask your Dh how he plans to "punish" dd if she ever hits him.

When she's being cute and imitating you or dh (carrying your purse, pretending to talk on the phone, etc) remind him she could be just as likely to imitate yelling and spanking.

And I know you probably already know all this, but you may have to just be a broken record and keep drilling it into him:

Spanking teaches kids that aggression is the first way to solve a conflict.

Spanking teaches kids that the people that love them the most shouldn't be trusted - they say the love them, then hurt them and shame them intentionally.

Spanking teaches kids that they need to be dependent on external forces to manage their behavior, and they may not work as hard to behave well on their own.

Spanking teaches kids that "this is not allowed, but I can still do it if I don't get caught".

Spanking teaches kids it's ok to hit when they're upset.

Spanking teaches kids that volitile reactions will work better than talking and problem solving.

Make sure he understands that by spanking her he'll probably GUARANTEE that she'll have more behaviors that need to be "managed" - not less.

[sparklemom]

I would stop trying to "sell" him on why spanking is wrong. I'd say, point blank in no uncertain terms, we will NOT spank our child in any way. No need to explain yourself. You're the mother, the 'top dog,' your child's biggest advocate on this earth. Don't cry or otherwise whine about it in any way to him. Be stern and true and completely unappologetic about it. You are a strong women---be strong about this. Your dd is very young. Set a firm stance on this now and do not wavor or explain yourself. He can kiss your behind...he is NOT going to spank your little one. And if you have to leave with her for this to be so, then so be it. It's his choice. Be strong and firm about this always.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by sparklemom

I would stop trying to "sell" him on why spanking is wrong. I'd say, point blank in no uncertain terms, we will NOT spank our child in any way. No need to explain yourself. You're the mother, the 'top dog,' your child's biggest advocate on this earth. Don't cry or otherwise whine about it in any way to him. Be stern and true and completely unappologetic about it. You are a strong women---be strong about this. Your dd is very young. Set a firm stance on this now and do not wavor or explain yourself. He can kiss your behind...he is NOT going to spank your little one. And if you have to leave with her for this to be so, then so be it. It's his choice. Be strong and firm about this always.

I can NOT disagree with this MORE. You are your husband are PARTNERS. You need to agree upon this.

I see a hundred good suggestions above including the "get off the damn couch and redirect her instead of yelling"

I would also ask him what the good is of telling her something like "stop playing with the DVD". She doesn't understand what it means or what it is for. It's a cool door that one can open and close. Hello? Isn't that cool?

Have him think as if he were 17 months old. THen have him think about what he would feel like if he was spanked for playing with something cool.



Setting up an advicersal relationship between you and your husband is not a great way to approach this.

[diane1969]

Any chance you could get mediation through a marriage counsellor? If you've already discussed at great length and you are still both hitting a brick wall AND you are tempted to leave if he hits her (which, I agree with you feeling that way... just as I wouldn't tolerate him hitting me, I wouldn't tolerate him hitting my children).

Maybe a counsellor (which I'm sure they are anti-spanking, right??) would help you both come to a united front -- of course, maybe even by your mentioning that you would like to see a counsellor over this matter might just make him concede, men just love avoiding that kind of thing!

[Cheshire]

I'm with Foobar on this one. He is her father and your partner in this parenting thing. I'm afraid if you "set down the law" that you will alienate him further. I totally understand your feelings on the spanking situation and I'm sorry that your dh is having trouble finding other solutions.

I think mommaofschmoo is right, he needs to be redirected.

Don't cry or threaten that you will leave. Let him know that you two are going to work it out as partners.

This is a compromise that you have to negotiate. On your scale of importance it is a 10 and a "non-negotiable." Sounds like he's at a 5 or 6. Talk to him about setting down some rules on how to deal with her without spanking and if they don't work you will keep looking until you find the right fit for the three of you but it will not be spanking.

I bet if he sees there are alternatives he will be willing to compromise with you on this one. Ask him to help you find other means of parenting, let him do some research.

Also, let him know that you will back him up when he has a 10 and you are just feeling a 5 or 6 on another issue in the future.

This is an opportunity to work together.

[Rainbow]

Tell him to bring you sources that state the benefits of spanking. Step down from the position of convincing him, and ask him to convince you.

I think much like the circumcision issue, once the unwilling partner is in charge of bringing the "benefits" to the table they will be able to see the other side so much clearer.

My DH used to be pro-spanking and now he's as opposed as I am. But he still sometimes feels helpless like there is nothing he can do. So together we sit down with the "problem" written at the top of a paper and underneath we write down a specific plan of action to help the situation. It gives him the answers he needs so he doesn't feel like he's stuck with no action to take. If it doesn't work, we revise Best of all we're always working together on it... ti really reinforces us as partners.

[annettemarie]

I posted a similar question here several months ago. What got my husband's attention was this-
by spanking her now, you are telling her that it is OK for someone to hit her to get her to do what they want.
When your daughter grows up, do you really want her believing that someone has the right to hit her to get her to be compliant?

Annette

[mommyofshmoo]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I posted a similar question here several months ago. What got my husband's attention was this-
by spanking her now, you are telling her that it is OK for someone to hit her to get her to do what they want.
When your daughter grows up, do you really want her believing that someone has the right to hit her to get her to be compliant?

Annette

I couldn't agree more.

If it is OK for one man who loves her to do something to physically hurt her "for her own good", what kind of message is she getting?

I really saw this in my own growing up. I was trained to be obedient and do what people said. I was on automaticm pilot with this in my relationships for several years before I got some sense.

[sparklemom]

I consider spanking to be a moral issue. That's why I would not compromise about it regardless of how anyone else feels.
Certainly, give and take and working together is a crucial aspect of any solid marriage. But when it comes to fundamentally moral issues regarding my children I'm not willing to "give."

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by sparklemom

I consider spanking to be a moral issue. That's why I would not compromise about it regardless of how anyone else feels.
Certainly, give and take and working together is a crucial aspect of any solid marriage. But when it comes to fundamentally moral issues regarding my children I'm not willing to "give."

That is understandable to not compromise, but there are gentle ways to do it and lawing down the law just didn't sound the most productive way....Didn't mean to attack you

[famousmockngbrd]

You've gotten some great suggestions here - offer him alternative solutions, talk to him about child development, ask him to convince you that spanking is a viable option. I do think the last one should be used as a last resort, though, since it kind of sets up a confrontation, at least potentially.

Also, I would suggest backing off a little, as counterproductive as that sounds. If this is an absolute deal-breaker for you (and it sounds like it is), and he is only at about a 5 or 6 on the "wants to spank" scale, and you have already talked about it at length and made your position clear to him, then I think you might just need to give him some space to come around to your way of thinking. Sometimes it's hard for people to admit they are wrong, especially when things are fresh in everyone's mind. It's easier for someone to agree with you when they feel like they aren't losing face in the process.

My DS wasn't exactly pro-spank, but he felt like spanking was an option in certain situations. I was like you (still am) in that I felt VERY STRONGLY that spanking is wrong, always, at all times. We should never deliberately use physical pain to discipline our children. It's a poor tool. We had many "discussions" about it. He knew I wasn't going to leave him over it, but that's because he was in the "spank them as a last resort" camp. If he felt strongly that spanking should be part of our every day discipline repertoire, then I might have but I can't imagine I would have had children with a guy like that, anyway. Although, I was surprised to find out that he thought spanking was EVER ok, but anyway - I digress. What ended up happening was we reached an impasse - he refused to say he would never spank DS, and I refused to say that was OK, lol. The last time we talked about it, I finally told him that he was DS's father, and I trusted him to do the right thing where DS is concerned. I also said that I hoped the day never came when DH felt that he needed to spank DS. And we left it at that.

Well, fast forward about 8 months and DH is now pretty anti-spank. He has seen how gentle discipline actually works, in practice, and he is starting to see the results. He gets it now. 17 months is still really young for any type of discipline to have any measurable effect. You're just laying the groundwork. I know *you* know this, lol. My point is just give it time, and give him the tools to discipline without physical violence. This is really important. Show him in example and tell him specifially in words what you are doing. If he can hold off on the spanking until he develops other ways of handling things, soon he'll realize that he doesn't need to spank her to discipline her.