Banalization of Epidurals - Page 3

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by amyjeans

epidurals slow labor therefore displaying a "Failure to progress" situation, hence more c-sections. Birth at "gunpoint" moreover "needlepoint"

I am reading this and there are some myths here about epidurals. If given too early, yes epidurals, can slow labor, that is why *most* child birth educators recommend waiting until you have reached the 5-6cm mark to get one. Epidurals can actually help speed up labor, especially with an exhausted, tuckered out mom. Most the folks I know who have had epidurals get them at this point in labor, on recommendation from their doctors, and have never stalled out. My BF got one at 3cm and she did have failure to progress, had AROM, etc and then ended up with a csection, she knew the risks when she asked for the epidural, she also takes responsibility for ending up in the OR since she allowed them to augment her labor because she was "tired" and "ready to get it over with" after being pregnant for nearly 43 weeks.

Actually I would love to have one of thos T-shirts from Target. I am always looking for a conversation peice and since I am having a repeat csection with an epidural, it will be true.

[sarajane]

Really? Because, to me, hearing what is and isn't an "acceptable reason" for having an epidural sounds pretty judgemental to me.

I know for me that I have my own persoanal "acceptable" situations where I would accept an epidural. I think everyone has their own acceptable situation where they would have one and that is okay.

I think it can come off as judgmental when a person sees only one way as being the best but doesn't necessarily mean that person is being judgemental. There are times that happens. Shoot it has happened to me, people think I am being selfish and endangering my baby by birthing at home. They don't simply say they think hospital is best and that is what they prefer but take it much farther than that. (sadly before knowing anything of homebirth at all)

Anyway, just sharing my thoughts here. My thoughts get all jumbled and emotional on these topics because I know woman who had epi's pushed on them without knowing the risks. I think everyone has the right to an informed decision.

[TCMoulton]

Everyone feels pain differently, in my case, I have had cavities filled with no novocaine due to fear of the needle but I know that I myself never would have made it through labor without my epidural.
Epidural or no epidural is an extremely personal choice. While I see those who birth without pain meds as amaxzingly strong, brave women, I would hope you would see my choice the same way, I labored as long as humanly possible without any pain relief until my extreme fear of needles was greatly outweighed my need for relief.

[USAmma]

I chose my epidural both times b/c of emotional and abuse feelings from my past. I know myself well enough to know that I would do better with an epidural. I have no regrets at all. However I do feel that a natural birth is best for most women. I'm just glad I had a choice personally.

That being said, I often feel the need to justify my epidural because most of the women I hang out are homebirthers.

[NoraB]

I also hate the total normalization of epidurals. The stats at some hospitals are staggering. And so many ppl think a woman is nuts if she want to go unmedicated. They get a smug look on their faces and say stuff like, "You'll see." PUHLEASE!

I fully repsect that epidurals can be very useful in certain situations. For a woman who is tired and stuck, and epidural can prevent a c/s. For a woman given pitocin, an epidural may be the only way to handle the artificially painful contx. And other reasons. I can't judge individual women and their choices. I do, however, believe that epidurals should NOT be routine. The risks should be FULLY explained to the mother and epidural should never be pushed on a birthing woman. Dr's should be educated in natural, physiologic birth prior to learning about medicalized birth. They should have to do rotations of hb or women-centered birth centers. They should have to shadow mw's and learn things like the Gaskin manuever, etc. And they should have to take a whole class on Birth as an American Right of Passage. LOL.

Seriously, though. The women I know who unquestioningly choose and epi is scary. I've heard more than one woman complain that her labor went too fast for an epi. I was left scratching my head. Wouldn't a fast labor be a blessing (unless is was extreamely hard, which in these cases it wasn't)? One woman even said she wanted to go to the hospital right away next time so she could have an epidural right away.

For me personally, I am not likely to choose an epi. I might if I become too exhausted and stuck in labor, but I'll try as many relaxing techniques and natural birth stimulation as possible. An epidural would be an absolute last resort for me b/c of all the risks (including be forced to stay in bed w/ continuous monitoring and having to give birth in the lithotomy or semireclining position). To me, it seems like a dangerous step on the road to another c/s and I don't want that.

[TiredX2]

Other than for a c-section, is there any medical reason why someone needs an epidural? Since many of us have given birth without one, we all know that it hurts, so it's hard to accept "too much pain" as a reason.

Trying to remember...

I think one of the common effects of an epidural is a drop in blood pressure (why some people get dizzy & need to lie flat). SO, I *think* (I haven't done any research on birth drugs for around 4+ years) that for mothers who have high blood pressure that needs brought down a bit it can be one way to deal with it.

[Greaseball]

I've never experienced pitocin, but I've heard that almost no one can do that without an epidural. (Have met a few on this board who have, though.) Birth was definitely the most painful thing I have ever experienced; it's hard to imagine something that could make it hurt WORSE!

[redsonya]

I just don't buy the "some women have a higher threshold for pain than others." This doesn't explain why the same woman will have multiple births, get through some of them no problem, and then is hit with one where she is begging/ wishing for an epidural. I have a friend who went through SEVEN homebirths and on the 8th she transferred (her choice) due to the severity of the pain, and yes, begged for an epidural. Did her tolerance for pain shift so dramatically between birth 7 and birth 8? No-- the lesson this taught me is that some briths are more painful than others, plain and simple. So if you were able to get through your birth okay, don't assume that birth was as painful as they come, because chances are it wasn'tl. I think we can be satisfied that MDCers have done their homework, and it's shocking for me to see the assumption that "most" women who choose an epidural are just ignorant or haven't bothered to do much research. I used to be totally judgemental toward women who had an epidural. I had all kinds of ideas in my mind about how awful and selfish and ignorant it was to get an epidural. I am totally ashamed to have had these thoughts, now, and I wish other people wouldn't have them either. I just don't get the judgemental attitude. If epidurals were causing heaps of dead babies, then yes, I'd understand the fuss, but that isn't the case by a loooooong shot. There are lots of things to complain about concerning medicalized birth other than pain relief, which a laboring woman should have every right to *if she wants it.*

[Greaseball]

This doesn't explain why the same woman will have multiple births, get through some of them no problem, and then is hit with one where she is begging/ wishing for an epidural.

Some women feel that after a certain number of drug-free births, it "doesn't matter" if subsequent ones aren't drug-free. They feel they have nothing to "prove" anymore. (This is what some women have told me, after having drug-free births and then using drugs for the last one.)

I had this thought at my homebirth; "My first baby was drug-free; no one will hold it against me if I transfer and get an epi now." My thought was that I and everyone else already knew I could manage without drugs, so what did it matter if I got them now?

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

I am reading this and there are some myths here about epidurals. If given too early, yes epidurals, can slow labor, that is why *most* child birth educators recommend waiting until you have reached the 5-6cm mark to get one. Epidurals can actually help speed up labor, especially with an exhausted, tuckered out mom. Most the folks I know who have had epidurals get them at this point in labor, on recommendation from their doctors, and have never stalled out.

My water broke 40 hours before I agreed to have pitocin. then I tried to get labor going with the pitocin for 24 hours before my midwives offered me the epidural. I took it, even though i didn't want it, even though the whole reason I was with the midwifery practice was to avoid it. Being able to sleep for three hours while the pitocin dilated my cervix for me was really nice, but then I was in the pushing stage for 8 hours because it was so hard to push when I couldn't feel anything.

So I've asked people here to help me evaluate this experience. One thing I noticed was that the hospital didn't allow me to eat for those 24 hours that I was on pitocin. I didn't feel hungry, but I did get really exhausted. It wasn't just that I wasn't sleeping. The second thing was that the atmosphere at the hospital was really stressful. People were annoyed with me for crying out when I had contractions (especially since the contractions were not effective in dilating me, so obviously they didn't hurt. ) My midwife did a great job of coming up with positions to help me labor more efficiently and less painfully, but I did feel time pressure because I was worried that my baby could be harmed (I mean since my waters had broken so long before.)

In theory, the healthcare practitioners supported my not using an epidural and not having an episotomy and not having the baby weighed before he latched on after birth. In practice, I had an epidural, an episotomy, and the neonatal nurse weighing my son before he had latched on. In practice, it was normal to pull the epidural out of the bag of tricks. We couldn't pull a friggin' peanut butter sandwich out of the bag of tricks, but we could use an epidural. Not that I wasn't grateful for the rest, I just think this was a silly tradeoff.

there is no evidence that not eating is beneficial to moms who have to have general anaesthesia in an emergency c/s, AND, they don't usually USE general! They would have used the epidural for the c/s! In fact that was one of the reasons they used to persuade me to concede to it!

I'd like to see a Target fortune-teller pregnancy t-shirt that says, "I see a foot massage in my near future" instead.

[thismama]

I had a 47.5 hour labour, hospital transfer due to stalled dilation. When I got to the hospital I started begging for the epi. It took over an hour to arrive and by that time I was 9 cm... yay! So decided to go without.

For me there were lots of factors in being able to do without, including (first and foremost) the length of time it took the epi to arrive. If it had shown up when I requested it I would have taken it for sure. Also lots of emotional support, SERIOUS!!! counterpressure (3 people pushing on my hips with all their might), knowing that I had progressed.

Transfer to hospital really is what made me want one badly. Earlier in labour I almost decided to get one, then got into the rhythm/trance of labour. I got pulled out of that when I got moved from home, and labelled as having "stalled."

I think it is absolutely up to a woman whether she has an epi, but epis shouldn't be used by hospitals as an excuse to not create supportive environments for labouring women.

And I agree with Greaseball in that I can't imagine anything more painful than just plain ole regular labour, never mind pitocin.

[guestmama9924]

There is no Target.com page matching your request

well I dropped Target a review and a note, and then spread the info to a doula egroup. I am sure many from that group (1800 doulas) wrote to Target, some even work at Target part time. That spread to other groups , and they told 2 friends and they told 2 friends and so on and so on....

anyway, they are no longer available . I would like to think that consumers complaining of tacky merchandise that was demeaning to women got it pulled, but who knows, maybe they sold out like hot cakes. :

[guestmama9924]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

Trying to remember...

I think one of the common effects of an epidural is a drop in blood pressure (why some people get dizzy & need to lie flat). SO, I *think* (I haven't done any research on birth drugs for around 4+ years) that for mothers who have high blood pressure that needs brought down a bit it can be one way to deal with it.

actually mag sulfate is what is protocol and recommended to control BP during labor. Anesthesia is not any protocol for controlling a medical issue, although some women do get that line along with many other lines to help them deal with their choices.

[2+twins]

Originally Posted by KeysMama

well I dropped Target a review and a note, and then spread the info to a doula egroup. I am sure many from that group (1800 doulas) wrote to Target, some even work at Target part time. That spread to other groups , and they told 2 friends and they told 2 friends and so on and so on....

anyway, they are no longer available . I would like to think that consumers complaining of tacky merchandise that was demeaning to women got it pulled, but who knows, maybe they sold out like hot cakes. :

Target did in fact pull that shirt. I'm in a birth organization that contacted just about every birth related organization about it. I know for sure that Lamaze Intl. said they'd contact Target at the national level & Mothering is issuing something in their newsletter this coming monday about it. Then a couple people I know of who wrote Target personally got emails back which said:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings about the t-shirt sold on
www.target.com.

This shirt is no longer available on our Web site. We apologize for any
offense or disappointment this item may have caused and will make your
comments available to our Web site buyers and executives.

Thanks for shopping with us. I hope you'll visit us again soon at Target.

[guestmama9924]

Ladies, I feel that all who wrote/complained/spread the word we now need to demonstrate our graciousness and need to THANK TARGET in the same enthusiastic manner.
This is a small little victory and if we want to keep the allies we make, we thank
them!

[Greaseball]

Anesthesia is not any protocol for controlling a medical issue, although some women do get that line along with many other lines to help them deal with their choices.

A friend of mine was told that, due to heart arrythmia, she would have to have an epidural if she wanted a vaginal birth. They were trying to talk her into a c/s instead, but then a cardiologist suggested the vag birth with epi.

Who knows...

[NoraB]

Yay on Target pulling the shirt!

[guestmama9924]

Originally Posted by Greaseball

A friend of mine was told that, due to heart arrythmia, she would have to have an epidural if she wanted a vaginal birth. They were trying to talk her into a c/s instead, but then a cardiologist suggested the vag birth with epi.

Who knows...

yeah you're right...they also use ulcer meds for labor induction so I guess it depends on the doc not the protocol

[sarajane]

Where I come from it would seem most people think that homebirth is wierd and unsafe and an epi or c-sec is sooo much safer. I have gotten told that alot. People say I am nuts, it is so risky without the hospital and without drugs, I'll be lucky if we make it; stuff like that. Seems it is pretty safe to say they haven't read up on the risks of drugs compared to all natural and their decisions were made in a state of ignorance on the subject.

On either side of the spectrum I hate it when people act like they know it all when they really don't have clue and then to look down upon you for your decision before even knowing why you made it. Whether it is an epi you desire or a homebirth some people can be so mean about it.

I have met one person who has been lovely about the whole thing. She had c-secs and such but doesn't know anything of homebirth and instead of bashing me or making me feel like I have to defend what I am doing as being best for me and my baby she simply asks questions. Shows some interest in understanding why we are doing things this way. That is a breath of fresh air!

[azyre]

I totally agree with the OP - it is not about individual choices but the climate in which they are made in. Birth is overwhelmingly portrayed as horrific and those who want to do it unmedicated as crazy, and epidurals are a godsend. This is a disservice to women - because it isn't always like that and the risks of epidural are not even downplayed, they are absent. It saddens me that this amazing thing women do is just boiled down to this one caricature. It robs us of our real voice.