Why is the age of 4 so darn hard ?!?!?!?!!

[Avonlea]

here is what just occured in my home moments ago :

Emily took an empty plastic bottle from the recycling and was waking around with it happily. She is 17 months old..Paul walked over and snatched it away form her. I said "Thats not right, you don't take things away from your sister, please give it back." Blank stare and he wlaks off. Still holding the bottle. I make him give it to me, and return it to his outraged baby sister to play with again..and tell him he has to wait his turn as there is only one, AND sh had it st. So what does he do then ? Waits until I am not loking/poaying attentiona dn I hear fromth other room "Hey Emily, can I have that now ? So, whether she wanted to give it away or not he has it again, and he starts wacking her adn himself and other things with it. I say "Paul., stop that, it is not nice to hit your sister with things ( she was upset over it) and as I am saying this he HITS HER AGAIN< while he LOOKS at me . Dead in the face, looking in my eyes, whacks her head.


NOw, of course, he does this as she is on my lap and I am trying to put her clothes on, and then I reach out for the darn bottle and he runs away from me.










You know, I am honestly sick of this crap. I don't like to be ignored or blown off, and this is now a daily occurance. It starts 1st thing in the am nad goes onuntil he falls asleep. I say "Stop that " and he keeps right on going. He is whiny and moody and screams with frustration over things and I just want to scream myself. I love him so much it hurts me, and I want to enjoy my child..but lately I find myself very tense anbs constantly trying to avoid the next blow up. I don't have many good memories of how I was parented at this age. A lot of yelling ( which I am beginning to do ) and a lot of spanking.

I know he is smart, I know he can reason things out to an extent. I also know in many ways he is still a baby-human who is learning and growing..but good lord above, can't he JUST do what he is told ? Why is that so frekaing hard anymore ? I don't ask for a lot and I am not evil inthe way my own Mother was with me..yet I sem to turn into the Evil Mother from Hell at least once a day. The other day I grabbed him and drug him off of his sister because he just would NOT stop hurting her and move. I have tried to be gentle but anymore I don't see it is working. All I see is that the instant I am trying to cook dinner or do somethig he is under my feet and in my face, and that No amtter what I try to do to BE with him, it doesn't work very well.



I don't want my life with my child to be a constant battle, but yet he is getting on my last nerve/wearing my patience thin as paper.

HELP !

[MsMoMpls]

Boy... can't wait to do four again, it just sounds like so much fun. Is he bored? I used to joke that my oldest son's hobby was making people crazy. He just found humans so interesting. Watch what I can make them do....

I suggest you attempt to parent with a lot less talking. Moms (me included) talk way too much. You know that cartoon where the human is talking to the dog and all the dog hears is bark-bark-bark-Rover-bark-bark? I think our kids get like that. Oh, there mom goes again, blah, blah, blah.

Try communicating in a less verbal way. He knows the rules, he doesn't need to hear them again. That isn't the problem. I would suggest that in this situation, if he took the bottle from her, you walk over to him and take the bottle from him- not snatch it, but if you put your hand on it, he will likely just let you have it he will be so surprised. Then hand the baby the bottle back, and physically redirect him but walking him towards something else appropriate to play with. You may have to do this 3 or 4 or 500 times. Ok- it will feel like 500 times. But everytime he takes it, you take it back. Just stop talking about it and expecting him to agree with you. He doesn't care right now. Sometimes you have to out stubborn them.

Good luck. It is so hard to be patient and loving every minute.

[Maurica]

[QUOTE=MsMoMpls]
Sometimes you have to out stubborn them. QUOTE]

Well, that was what I needed to hear! My 4 yo DD is so...so...oh, let's say contrary sometimes. She has also taken to replying "no," and even lying that she already did something (ie brushing teeth).

But, not to hijack - I do sympathize and would love some more tools from other parents, too.

I like the less talking idea. I like the just taking it away after one verbalization idea. I do talk too much.

When she whines I try to get her to take a deep breath with me as I empathize, "I see you'd like your beads. Would you like to ask me something?" Whining is a big issue here. Urgh. It's been a long day. Hope I make sense.

take care, M

[Mamame]

I've also started sending my 4 year old to his room. I've had a bit of an issue with him and him bullying his little sister and now I'm sending him to his room when he does something naughty like that. After he's there for 4 minutes (he hates to be sent to his room so this is effective - you might want to try a chair or something else), I bring him back, tell him what was wrong and how he SHOULD have handled it, ask him to appologize to his sister and then give him a big hug. It seems to be working for him. He doesn't like to be separated from us and I've JUST started doing this with him since it's becoming a problem - before this he'd be jealous but not do things to intentionally hurt her. Now he's started pushing her down and grabbing things from her that he wants'

Parenting is fun, isn't it?? LOL!!

[Mytwokids]

I have an almost 5 year old dd so I can definitely understand. My dd is very strong willed, determined and independent. I have had to learn to work with her rather than against her and let me tell you its taken some time.

Some advice that I got that really helped. First act don't yak. Say it once and then step in and help him do what he needs to do. So for your example with him taking the bottle, ask him to give the bottle back to his sister. If he doesn't go to him and help him give it back to her. Second back off as much as possible. They seem somewhat contradictory to each other but whenever possible just back off. Let the small things go but when you decide it is something that needs to be addressed, then address it by acting. Does that make any sense.

When we are in a difficult period with dd the best thing we can do to improve our relationship is let go of the little things. The more I nag about everything the more difficult she gets about everything. Give him the power and control over as much as possible in his life.

Lastly I wanted to bring up the possibility of sibling rivalry and attention seeking. From your post is sounds like he does things directly to his sister or seeking your attention when you are busy. Remember negative attention is still attention to a 4 year old so when you are fraustrated with a certain behavior and you want to put an end to it do not give it a ton of attention. Kids love to see us go loony over things and if they find something that works they go back to it over and over again. So try to stay as calm and as minimal as possible when correcting such behavior, I know, easier said that done! Also make sure that there isn't subtle sibling issues behind the behavior.

Micky

[gaialice]

Hi,
I so understand you because my dd is also four and also went through a long period of ignoring all I said. My dh was on the point of hitting her many times. For some reason it is better now and with no hitting.
A lot of it, I think, is sibling rivalry. I read the book "Siblings without Rivalry" which I found excellent and I started implementing things from the book and from my thoughts when reading the book.
Practical suggestions:
- When a child has hit or taken toys away from the other focus your attention on the victim. Ignore the agressor initially. Say "Oh, poor XY. You are hurt. Your face is sad. What can we do for you?" Then, involve the other child in a plan to make her happy again. This has the advantage of 1) not giving the negative attention 2) developing a caring instinct in the children 3) because I was not there when the incident occured I do not really know how it happened. I may reach wrong conclusions and the aim is not really to decide who is to blame but to do something about it.
- never compare the children. I used to do stupid things like "Let's see who finishes dinner first." ...
- try to come up with simple activity they can do just the two of them (running after each other, hide and seek, bathe together in the tub).
- try to develop their verbal communication and ability to problem solve. "I see you both want this toy. How can we deal with this?" Listen to their ideas. If none, suggest an idea. Ask each child if it is OK.
As for listening, I think Dr. Gordon's old suggestion of kneeling down to the child, looking at him in the eyes and then talk in brief sentences and not overtalk is always a great one. If one only had the time.
Good luck

[Alegria]

My 4 yr old's most used word this week........stupid stupid stupid stupid.
And she sticks her tongue out 300 times a day.

"I don't like you"

ah well, gotta love 'em.

[beanma]

i could have written the OP! really, almost word for word -- just change the ds to a dd1. today dd2 picked up a my little pony that dd1 was no where near. dd1 was looking at books, but jumped up to snatch the pony from dd2 who of course started crying. dd1 then went and put it up on a shelf where dd2 couldn't reach. when i pointed out that that wasn't very nice and dd2 was crying dd1 tried to substitute another toy (trade). i held my tongue (wanted to yell and get up and snatch the pony back off the shelf to give to dd2), but pointed out that dd2 was still sad. i asked dd1 how she would feel if i grabbed the book she had been reading and told her she couldn't have it back ("no! never!"). dd1 said she would feel pretty sad. i told her i thought that's how dd2 felt (all the while comforting dd2) and (i think this is what tipped the scale) told her i didn't think i could read with her now 'cause dd2 needed me since she was feeling so sad. that prompted dd1 to go on her own over to the shelf and get the pony to give back to dd2. don't know if it would've worked w/o the "threat" of not reading. i really didn't say it in a threatening voice, though. just very matter of fact and wasn't trying to manipulate. dd2 really did need my attention. i'm trying to work on fostering empathy 'cause i don't think dd1 is naturally an especially empathetic child. i'm probably not naturaly empathetic either 'cause my first impulse when she screeches and hollers in anger or frustration is to run away instead of offering a shoulder to cry on. it's hard! i also think dd1 rally craves 1 on 1 time with me. tough thing, too, 'cause i really crave 1 on 1 time with me, too :LOL . i'm just trying to model with her how i would want her to deal with situations with her sister or friends. try not to snatch things back. try not to put things away out of reach just cause i'm frustrated (wonder where she got the idea with the pony, huh .

hth

[Alexander]

OK. Some good replies here, but I wonder if this is not a case for the 1 meter rule? Generally, it could be that the child in question needs some interaction. The 1 meter rule would provide that, plus usually some cuddle time.

a

edited to say:


On sending to thier room:

While I cannot see the situation for myself (and am not therfore able to judge properly), generally I question the success of this method.

a

[Sofiamomma]

what's the one meter rule?

[Alexander]

The child must spend the next n minutes within 1 (or 1.5m) meter of you at all times. You are washing up, that's where they are too. You are loading laundrey, they are there too.

This means that

1) you can keep a reallly close eye on them.
2) opens the opportunity to be interactive, (would you like to load this? push that button etc.)
3) They are tied, but not alone in the bedroom sulking (or worse, not sulking)
4) at time of their choosing, they can discuss with you what they did, what they think you think, what they think the other child thinks, what is nice for him/her holds for all people, etc.
5) You are there to provide love and comfort.

Remember. It is easier to modify children's behavior with more emotion rather than less, even if you are showing irritation. Isolating a young child from an environment that he should be feeling is to prevent that child child from learning empirically.

The 1m tie is really frustrating for children who do something to get a rise out of a parent. At the same time, it is essential for children that are not demonstrating an emotional bond to parents or siblings.

This is not a moment for a parent to take the opportunity to rant and rave at the child though.

a

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Remember. It is easier to modify children's behavior with more emotion rather than less, even if you are showing irritation. Isolating a young child from an environment that he should be feeling is to prevent that child child from learning empirically.

Such wise words. And so difficult to practice for many of us because, having been isolated ourselves, it's our impulse to isolate when things get rough.

I only have one (my 4-year-old), so my situation is a good bit different. I do take care of 2 younger children two days a week, though, and experience a lot of what Avonlea described (though not with my 4-year-old, with the 3-year-old boy toward his little sister). I'm finding that it's almost always driven by a need for my attention. He's a middle child and seems to not get the one-on-one that the other children get, so it makes sense. But it's incredibly hard to give him one-on-one.

I also find that my own son's behavior bottoms out when the other kids are around because he's not getting enough of me. He doesn't lash out physically, but he whines incessantly and is generally disagreeable and negative. If I keep him close and involve him in little things that I'm doing, he lights right back up.

4-year-olds are strange creatures. I know part of our issue is that I'm used to doing so much for him, but he's now at an age where he can do much more for himself. The extra time it takes frustrates me greatly which, in turn, frustrates him. I have to constantly remind myself to give him the independence he needs but then be ready to give him closeness when he's needing that. It's always precarious, and it is EXHAUSTING.