I spanked

[byfaith]

: sad thing is...it worked. I was up to my eyeballs with misbehavior...throwing things inthe floor after knowing she shouldn't..she has done it about 20 times literally. I tried all the "right" things to redirect ehr behavior. I finally spanked her (not out of anger) and she stopped. DH says "see i told you that we need to spank" I really do not want to ..but what else do I do?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

The first thing I would ask myself is *why* it 'worked'. Personally, I think 14 months is way to young to be considered misbehaving.

What were you doing before that didn't work?

[lab]

Hmmmmm.......

Your question is what else do you do? Continue to re-direct or remove your dd from the situation.

I noticed she is 13.5 months old. Honestly, your dd did not learn anything from you hitting her. Imagine her shock and surprise. It may have seemed like she stopped, but she only stopped because she was so stunned. She didn't learn anything. At 13.5 months, you can't expect her to learn cause and effect. All that poor baby knows is that mommy hit her for no reason. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, just please look at this from her perspective.

You sound sincere and that you want to reach out and get help. Perhaps some other members have studies that you and your dh can look over......

I know it can be hard to buck the system and go against what everyone is telling you IRL. This is probably all you have ever known or heard. But it is wrong.

[loftmama]

i have, too, and i deeply regret it. later my child showed a "fear" of me and a deep hurt that mommy would hurt him. those are my worst parenting moments, i'm afraid to confess. of course it worked. he was in shock! i will never do it again. it takes much more of an emotional involvement and physical presence, i think, for me. you know one thing that i love: counting to five. someone told me about a method called 1,2,3 magic. i never read it but i got the idea and it's a beautiful thing. timeouts don't really work for us, but giving him some "quiet time alone" usually works. he's 4yo now - very different from a 13.5 mo. hey i just realized that ds2 is 13.5 months old, too. he was born dec. 13, 2003. what about yours? now, as far as he's concerned, i definitely can't spank him. i know he doesn't get it. he's a different child from ds1, so i don't know yet what will work. but i definitely think that nothing good can come from spanking a baby. sorry to disagree with you, but that's my opinion

[TiredX2]

You know, putting a child in traction will also stop them from misbehaving. I do NOT consider what you did to be that bad, but just wanted to point out that the goal of discipline (guidance) is NOT simply to get a child to do what you want, or don't do what you don't want. It is to help them find the inner ability to control their own actions.

Because *that* is the goal, you cannot expect a 13 month old baby to be disciplined. They CANNOT control their inner motivations.

Perhaps you could bring up very specific situations and we could help you brainstorm responses more in line with what you believe.

[Chanley]

Why not give her something she can throw on the floor.

We have cloth balls that are fun to throw. Gravity is such a fun thing at that age. When my kids are doing something inappropriate, I try to find a way that they can do the behavior in an appropriate way (where applicable).

Throwing, give them something they can throw.

My son has a fascination with knives, i think he can smell them. We have some plastic play knives to give him when he goes for a real one.

They are learning through play at this age. Thwarting that play is counterproductive to thier development. My son is a month older than your dd and he still does not understand most verbal commands. He is just not ready, I have to redirect him and get physically involved to stop behavior. Spanking would just break that trust and teach that it is OK to hit.

Hands are for helping, not for hitting.

[mommybritt]

Originally Posted by byfaith

I was up to my eyeballs with misbehavior...throwing things inthe floor after knowing she shouldn't..she has done it about 20 times literally.

Okay, I see this as the problem - especially the "knowing she shouldn't" part - it's just not possible at 13 months. And even when they do know what they should and shouldn't do, it takes years before they have the impulse control to actually do it! Maybe have dh read about normal childhood development/behaviour?

In the situation you describe, without knowing the exact details, I would have either removed dd from the situation or removed whatever she was throwing.

[LoveBeads]

You might also benefit from getting a book on child development and age-appropriate behaviors.

The reason I say that is because what most people do not know is that when a child repeatedly throws something on the floor (and they all do it), it is the beginning of language development. They are first beginning to grasp the concept that when they do something, mommy then does something (i.e., retrieves the object). They are beginning to see that they are separate people from mommy and then can impact the world. If this stage is thwarted, so is language development. It is not being done to misbehave, it is being done to learn.

Knowing things like that always helped me get through the frustrating times.

[USAmma]

Sometimes you have to put yourself in a time-out instead of your child. I have spanked too, and although it worked for the moment, I felt a lot of guilt and dd's self esteem got worse. It was one of those moments I am not proud of. Abi was 3.5 at the time, not 13 mos.

I am reading Playful Parenting right now. It's a great book and helps teach parents how to end the power struggles in creative ways where everyone is happy. At 13 mos. your baby should respond really well to this method.

BTW my dd (12 mos.) came up to me and bit me on the leg twice, when I didn't pick her up right away because I was cooking. Babies love to get a reaction out of their parents. They love those kinds of surprise games. Nitara thought it was funny the first time when I jumped and yelled after she bit me.

Darshani

[amybw]

At 13.5 months, you can't expect her to learn cause and effect.

Sure you can. Cause and effect are a funny thing.... That's why they do things like throw toys- wow, that's down there now! Pull the cat's tail- she makes a funny sound! Stand on the table, mommy comes running... etc..

Your child understands cause and effect (probably) to the extent that, i throw this and it causes a reaction in mommy. :LOL Attention for doing things whether good or bad is still attention. My DS climbs onto the end tables and thinks it is funny. As soon as he sees that i see him doing that, he says "bad bad" and laughs. Ugh. what have i done?

I really dont think that they understand at this age that if i do somethign and get a spanking for it, if i do it again, i will get a spanking again. That is an indirect correlation that i think they dont put together. I dont think they understand the relationship between what they just did and the spanking. :dk

Now the argument for spanking, is that they will eventually "get it" but that is also true for redirection and other non physical discipline. They will eventually "get it" all as long as whatever you do you are consistent in.

so sorry you are frustrated. Maybe we should call each other when we are at the end of our ropes. I am serious!

This morning i felt like if i had to say "Jeremy,please put your feet on the floor" or "jeremy, you can climb on this, please get off of the table" i was going to flip out. I wanted to just ignore it instead of dealing with it ( I tend to run from conflict, can you tell? ) And at breakfast -he doesnt want any help being fed anymore- he would jerk the spoon away from me and fling oatmeal all over the place. I told him, you can have the spoon and bowl if you are going to eat it. etc etc So each time he threw food, i took it away. I was getting frustrated. so i just got him down. i figured if he was really hungry, he would eat. So, anyway...

do what you feel is right, but i think from the tone of your post that you really dont want to spank. You just dont know what else to do.

be consistent, it will pay off.



Amy

[LizD]

Spanking occasionally in itself is not so terrible. I was quite reassured when reading a Brazelton book that in response to the question, "is it ever ok to hit?" he said, "Probably not, but we all do it now and then." Not because I spanked, I didn't, but because it seems such a charged, all-or-nothing topic that when one resorts to it or loses one's temper really crippling guilt can follow, which doesn't help anything. You don't need to fear you have irreparably damaged your child by one spanking.

However, it seems to me your child is far too young for that kind of discipline at all, let alone spanking. Under-threes are still in so little control of themselves, you really just need to remove them from the situation you don't like. They simply aren't capable of obeying a verbal command to stop doing something, and shouldn't be punished at all, ever. That is still a baby.

You Are Your Child's First Teacher is a lovely book discussing those stages of development and how to handle them; Natural Childhood, edited by John Thomson, is also.

[loftmama]

Maybe we should call each other when we are at the end of our ropes. I am serious!

Now this is a good idea.

Does Mothering or MDC have a hotline for something like this? Wouldn't that be a great thing?

[LizD]

I also must respectfully disagree that a child of this age can deliberately provoke a reaction in the parent. It is so unconscious at this stage. I would also refrain from making requests of a child so young, as in "please put that back," unless you yourself are physically assisting the endeavor. I also favor statements such as "time to put your coat on," and "we pet the cat gently." "Don't" and "No" statements are so ineffective with children at this young age. You are giving them an image of an activity or action and then asking them to understand that one word prefacing that image negates it. It's really quite complex.

[Chanley]

Originally Posted by LizD

Spanking occasionally in itself is not so terrible. I was quite reassured when reading a Brazelton book that in response to the question, "is it ever ok to hit?" he said, "Probably not, but we all do it now and then."

I disagree with this. It is never ok to hit a child. Lets turn this around..."Hitting your wife occasionally in itself is not so terrible. I was quite reassured when reading a Brazelton book that in response to the question, "is it ever ok to hit?" he said, "Probably not, but we all do it now and then."

In that context, you can see that it is NOT Ok. Dr. Sears has something totally different to say about this. I believe that when we hit our children, we break a bond of trust. Hitting in anger is something we have to work on. I totally agree with mommy time outs. When I feel like I am about to misbehave, I remove myself from the situation (I take the cordless phone too) then I call my dh or a friend and vent. If the kids are standing at the door crying that is fine, it is better than having a jerk for a mom. I just say loudly htat i need some space. Ironically, my four year old does the same now. she will put herself in her room. We find this to work well at our house.

When you hit because you are out of control and very angry, then you should not be hitting in the first place even if you think it is a good idea to hit your kids. If you hit when you are not out of control, then you need to examine why you are hitting. It is a conscious decision at that point. A decision which needs some introspection.

Look at the long term with discipline. Remember, at some point in the adolescent years, we are going to have to rely on the foundation we create today in regards to our relationship with our children and the thier relationships with others. They learn how to deal with thier feeligns by the models we create.

[Mothra]

Originally Posted by LizD
Spanking occasionally in itself is not so terrible. I was quite reassured when reading a Brazelton book that in response to the question, "is it ever ok to hit?" he said, "Probably not, but we all do it now and then."

Dr. Brazelton is wrong. Not all of us do it now and then. As a matter of fact, many of us have never struck our children. It is against MDC policy to advocate spanking in any manner.

[Rainbow]

Spanking can at times bring immediate results. This is no secret. But from where are the results motivated? Is the child aware of why she should not do this, or is she afraid of being hit? Is the child *internalizing* why she should not do X, or learning not to get caught? Which is a better personality trait long-term do you think? What do you want for her in life- an adult who does good because they understand and WANT to do it, or an adult who does good because there is a risk of consequence?

Remember this: the innate part of your child that allowed her to continue to throw things on the floor after you repeatedly asked her not to, is the same innate part of her that taught her to get up and try walking after she fell for the 20th time. This is a normal biological part of her psyche to continue trying things.

[Rainbow]

Originally Posted by Mothra

Originally Posted by LizD
Spanking occasionally in itself is not so terrible. I was quite reassured when reading a Brazelton book that in response to the question, "is it ever ok to hit?" he said, "Probably not, but we all do it now and then."

Dr. Brazelton is wrong. Not all of us do it now and then. As a matter of fact, many of us have never struck our children. It is against MDC policy to advocate spanking in any manner.

Hitting ANYBODY is never ok. Hitting is violence, and it is wrong. Sure, people mess up and do it sometimes. Most of us are products of this treatment, and undoing that is hard. If you do it however, you owe your child an apology IMO. I'm not saying you should beat yourself up, just not rationalize it.

[mainegirl]

I don't know if this will help, but I have noticed that my 18m old son will deliberately do things he knows he should not (climb on things, throw things, etc.) when he doesn't feel I'm paying enough attention to him.

When he starts doing these things and redirection and gentle discipline don't work, I take him somewhere else for a change of scenery. For us, we have a playroom set up in the upstairs guest room and we make a big deal out of going up there so it's a treat for him.

Saying, "Michael, why don't we go upstairs?" immediately changes his focus and he gets very excited, and it teaches me that I should be changing my focus, too. Even little kids get bored and when they're still young I don't think they know a reasonable way to deal with it. My son gets hyper and does naughty things to evoke a response from me. The response I give him is that it's not okay to do those things, but then I change my own behavior and pay more attention to him.

I hope that's helpful.

- Jen

[MilkOnDemand]

I admit to having spanked my children in the past, but I felt so guilty afterwards and their little eyes were filled with pain - not the physical kind, but the "you hurt my spirit and trust" kind. When I really looked, I realized that spanking was absolutely the wrong answer. It would break my heart if my husband were to hit me because I forgot to write down a bank transaction, or whatever - how must my children feel if I hit them for something I've told them not to do?

13.5 months is too young to even consider *punishment* - redirection, removal of offending toy, removal from situation - YES!, but not punishment. When my children did things at that age that really seemed defiant, I had to remind myself that they are exploring the world around them, but it is my job to help teach boundaries.

[Still_Snarky]

Originally Posted by MilkOnDemand

13.5 months is too young to even consider *punishment* - redirection, removal of offending toy, removal from situation - YES!, but not punishment. When my children did things at that age that really seemed defiant, I had to remind myself that they are exploring the world around them, but it is my job to help teach boundaries.

My daughter is 12.5 months right now and this can be a difficult time. She is really starting to want to do things independently and throwing major tantrums when she can't. There are always other options aside from spanking. Remove *yourself* from the situation if you need to. I can still remember the one and only time I was slapped by my mom and it stirs up major feelings of betrayal.

Don't beat yourself up though, we all make mistakes.