TCSers & Non-Controlling Parents, DC seems to be craving control…

[IdentityCrisisMama]

So, I would really like to be a non-controlling parent. The basic ideas appeal to me and it’s how I was raised.

But, I’m noticing that my child might crave control. After I tell her she should make a decision for herself, she says things like, “But you’re still going to take care of me, right?”

She’s been making some rather ‘bad’ choices lately so I asked if she would prefer I made some more choices for her and she said yes.

I have no idea if this means we will have struggles over my choice but I’ll let you know.

Also, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Everyone is welcome but I’d especially like to hear from parents who try to limit control, TCS parents and parents with children with a high need for this type of guidance.

Thanks.

[mommyofshmoo]

I'm a very non-controlling parent. (Example, I let dd help herself to popsicles from the fridge at will, within reason,- I figure it's no worse than juice.)

My dd does, however, crave control- or at least "form." Dh travels a lot, and so do we, so our schedule changes a lot.

One thing I have done is get her involved with a Montessori prechool 5 mornings a week. It's good for both of us because it gives structure to the day, makes us have to get somewhere on time, forced somewhat reasonable wardrobe choices, etc.

Plus, though Montessori encourages kids to make choices and self teach, there is quite a bit of form to the program- she goes in, takes off shoes, puts them away, puts on slippers, hangs her coats, etc...

Anyway- I think it gives her a good balance of laid back mom and three hours most days where she practices being more regimented in her behavior.

Good luck, I look forward to hearing what people have to say!

[our veggie baby]

I noticed that you said you try to let your child make their own decisions and while that is a great thing to do, I wonder if maybe your child doesn't feel a bit overwhelmed sometimes? I am not a parent yet, but I know when I used to babysit, etc, sometimes it made the children feel overwhelmed to just have a wide open decision to make know what I mean? So I would give them a few choices and that way they were still making their own decision, while at the same time not feeling so overwhelmed in the decison making process....for example, instead of saying a wide open "what would you like for lunch?" I would say something like, "it is almost lunchtime, I know you like a. b. or c. and we have all those things, which would you like?

Or, instead of---where do you want to go? I would say something like, it would be neat to get out for a bit...would you like to go a. b. or c. (naming places)?

I felt like that was a good compromise, it let them make their own decisions without feeling overwhelmed about it...I dunno if that will help you at all, but I just thought I would offer my $.02! Good luck!!

ETA: The choices I offered weren't set in stone either, but more often than not it got the "ball rolling" so to speak---for instance, they may not choose the suggestions I made but rather would say, oh we don't want such and such for lunch today, but do we have _____? So it was win/win most of the time anyway!

[sunnmama]

I think it is ok! I mean, if she wants you to baby her a bit, and take the lead sometimes--why not? Isn't this really the heart of tcs--respecting who your dc is and following their lead. Sometimes (often) they surprise us....like the children who hate to cosleep, for example.

I think it is great that she can communicate this need, and that you are listening so closely to her.

[UnschoolnMa]

We are TCS parents

It sounds like your Dd is just communicating that she wants to be "babied" a bit. (Can't think of a better term here...) I think that is totally fine. Heck, I still baby my 13 year old son sometimes lol.

You might want to communicate with her that even though she gets to make her own decisions, you will always be there for her to help her. Perhaps that will ease some hesitation she has that making her own choices means mom won't ever need to help her. We've always encouraged the kids to make decisions, but reinforced often that if they need help making a choice/ or just with anything that they come to us.

[Dar]

Especiallly with young children, I think it's often much easier for the child to not feel responsible for making the decisions, but instead to know that the decisions you make are all negotiable if she doesn't agree. So, on a cold day I'll say, Here's your coat." rather than, "Do you want to wear your coat?" OTOH, if the child says, "No! I don't want my coat!" then I'll start discussing various options and see which she wants (jacket instead, blanket intead, no coat, stick coat in the car, etc.)

At that age, I rarely just told me child to make a decisions for herself, unless it was something like "Blue straw or red straw?" She didn't have enough information to competently make many decisions. So, at a restaurant, I might read off the options on the menu for her, but than I'd also describe them - "This is chicken on a stick, like we had at the street fair - you liked that. This one might be kind of spicy, but we can ask about that," and so on. If the menu is long, I might start by asking if she felt like beef or chicken or no meat, or a noodle dish or a rice dish, and then read those choices. I also might find 2 or 3 that I guessed she would like and tell her those, first, and if none of those seemed appealing I'd read the rest. If she really balked at making the decision, I might suggest that she get X and I get Y and we share, so she can try both.

Dar

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Most of these situations are about sleep, food and taking a break from a fun activity. Also, I think part of this is that DC is not ready for some activities that other kids participate in (like pre-K or art classes without me) and I think she knows this ~ I think she is pushing herself.

She will ask for some sweets and it does seem that she knows it’s not the best thing to eat but she doesn’t seem to be able to pass on it without a fight from me. OTOH, when we were talking about control, I think she was asking me to control this for her.

Also, she needs a rest, nap or break in activities during the day. Otherwise, she fights with friends, has a fit, can’t have fun, falls asleep really early or is just generally miserable for the rest of the evening. I think she knows that she needs a nap but when I remind her she doesn’t want to take a break ~ yea…she’s 3!

It’s just challenging for me because I would like to parent in a way that just talks to her about needing a break or eating well and have her make good choices but this hasn’t been working. Hopefully, a natural consequence has worked for us and she’s now ready to allow me to make some choices for her without a big argument.

What I’m afraid of is that she’s asking me to make choice for her while she’s rabidly protesting ~ like talking the candy from her hand or dragging her kicking and screaming from a friend’s house. That would suck!

[Mytwokids]

I'm not a TCS parent technically, I just heard of the term about a week ago. But from what I have read its not too far off from the way I "try" to parent.

I was just wondering though with a 3 year old isn't it a little too much to expect them to decide if they are going to nap or not. I certainly can see when my kids are tired and in need of a break or rest or nap. Instead of leaving the entire decision if they are going to take a nap or not I give a choice of how they are going to rest. At 3 I would say your tired you need to rest, do you want me to lay down or do you want to lay down by yourself. Or do you want to read stories or watch a movie. Basically I would make sure they get the rest but they can choose how they get. Does that make sense. I'm not sure if that would fit into TCS or not. I have to admit one of my most control issues is sleep. I do make sure my kids get the sleep they need. Otherwise we all pay for it .

Micky

[Dar]

At three, many naps happened in front of a video. I'd pull our sofa out and make it a bed, get some pillows, snuggle her up and put on a video she'd seen before, and maybe make some popcorn. She was fine with the idea, and often fell asleep, but even if she didn't it was a rest.

If she wasn't into that I'd offer to nurse, and she'd generally fall asleep nursing if she was really tired...

It helps if you can sort of structure the day so there's downtime mid-afternoon, so it's not like she's missing anything fun...

Have you limited sweets befoe? With kids wh have never had sweets limited, they're generally just seen as another food, like carrots or crackers. Or if you have them but keep telling her they're bad for her, you'd be sending mixed messages. If you truly want to remove coersion from food, then moralizing about food would be a mistake, as would creating all this energy around sweets.Let her eat what she wants, offer tasty things that are healthy, as well as sweet things. Anything ittle and cute was a hit at that age, at our house...

Dar

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

It’s just challenging for me because I would like to parent in a way that just talks to her about needing a break or eating well and have her make good choices but this hasn’t been working. Hopefully, a natural consequence has worked for us and she’s now ready to allow me to make some choices for her without a big argument.

What I’m afraid of is that she’s asking me to make choice for her while she’s rabidly protesting ~ like talking the candy from her hand or dragging her kicking and screaming from a friend’s house. That would suck!

The way I see it, with an infant/very small child, TCS and AP are identical; that is, you pay attention to what your child wants/needs (with the very young, "wants" and "needs" are the same) and then provide that for them.

I don't see TCS as incompatible with structure; quite to the contrary, if a child demands structure than the most TCS thing to do is provide it for them. As an example, many TCSers are unschoolers because for them non-coercive parenting and non-coercive education go together. This isn't the case in my family, my niece can't stand not having a structure and rhythym to her day. Taking Her Seriously, in the context of homeschooling, means helping her to devise a schedule every week.

Your daughter is very young, and she may need more limited choices for a while (i.e. the red shirt or the blue shirt). If it gets to the point where most of the time she can't accept one of your solutions ("I want the green shirt!") then you can start asking her broader questions (Which shirt do you want to wear?). In other words, you'll know when she's ready for less input from you on how to structure her day.

We all need reminders sometimes, some people more than others. I know people who want to be reminded, say, why they don't want to eat another slice of cheesecake and who will thank you when you do it, and other people who will give you the nastiest look and seriously resent it if you try to impose your will on them (I am definately in the latter category). I think that with many very young children, more structure is less confining for them.

FTR, my son is not like this; he's two, but he loves to make his own decisions. I'm not a perfect TCS parent by any means, but I think that it's really the ideal system for him because he is so much happier and more confident when I let him decide things for himself. Every child is different, however, and it's perfectly in keeping with TCS to make parenting decisions with your child and your family in mind.

[simonee]

nak
TCS is not just about your child making decisions, rather it's about deciding together. I went through a long stage with dd with naps, too, similar to what you describe. In the end, we would agree BEFORE the situation happened what we thought would be a good thing to do, and she thought that it would be best that I judged for her when it was sleep time and then prepare her when the time almost came.

For about 2 years, we "said goodbye in our hearts" to prepare for the end of play time, and it worked most of the time (then again, she never needed lots of sleep, so we could skip sometimes, too).

TCS means that the parent doesn't get coerced either, that part of the equation is often forgotten. If your child wants to be babied, "you making the decision" can be one of the choices. "bad" and "good" choices aren't exclusive, either. Many children love dinner with a cookie on top, and what does it matter if she's going to get the cookie anyway after dinner? "giving" the child choices isn't TCS if the choice she needs ('you deciding for her') isn't included; the only real choice is one that SHE establishes herself. My dd has often gone out in not enough clothes, but the "babying" part is that I then do take care of her by bringing some alternatives to keep her warm. It's a bit like the "it's the journey not the destination" thing: the process leading to the choices to be decided between if usually more important than the final choice between the green or the red shirt.

In the end, my dd often wanted me to choose her clothes, but then she got to choose mine (and I either agreed or we tried to find consensus, which we always managed to do)

sorry for the rambliness. too many decisions on my mind too lol.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

To start, yes, we have controlled food in the past and in many ways we still do. I’ve been trying to let go of this by talking to DC more about how certain foods make her feel, health issues and etc. The problem comes when DC knows the ‘best’ choice but can’t seem to control herself. I think she’s asking me to help her control herself ~ yes, like the cheesecake example…perfect! It gives me some perspective to think of adults actually wanting help with self control.

We certainly limit choices. Mostly it’s easy ~ what we have to eat, what’s clean, what we have to do in the day, who’s around. Recently, I have gone off some things that I found to be manipulative ~ limiting choices as a means of control, distraction and redirection. Maybe we’re struggling from this. I could always go back.

We are trying to add some structure to the day…it’s a big challenge for me but I’m working on it. I feel like such a ‘dork’ (for lack of a better word) with how I have to go about this ~ a calendar and computer list…eck! But, nothing more relaxed, logical, “organic” works for me.

Originally Posted by simonee

In the end, we would agree BEFORE the situation happened what we thought would be a good thing to do, and she thought that it would be best that I judged for her when it was sleep time and then prepare her when the time almost came.

This is what I’ve been doing…sort of. We can do it much better but I’m worried that she won’t remember when faced with the idea of leaving the playground or whatever.

This is our big challenge…following through with what we want/need to do. I realize that she’s 3 and this is hard. Maybe I just have to accept that this is hard for young kids. She knows what she wants to do and we have no troubles finding “common preferences” *in theory* but when it comes time to follow through I find myself having to be more controlling than I want.

Originally Posted by simonee

TCS means that the parent doesn't get coerced either, that part of the equation is often forgotten.

This is definitely true of us right now.

Originally Posted by simonee

but the "babying" part is that I then do take care of her by bringing some alternatives to keep her warm.

I do this but thinking about this in terms of ‘babying’ gives me the idea that I should probably tell DC that I’m doing it. Maybe then she’ll see better that I *am* her safety net and that I’m am always there for her even when she makes her own choices. Maybe that’s what we’re missing.

Originally Posted by simonee

In the end, my dd often wanted me to choose her clothes, but then she got to choose mine (and I either agreed or we tried to find consensus, which we always managed to do)

I don’t know if this would work for me. I’d much prefer DC to choose her clothes and I choose mine but if she wanted me to choose hers…I still wouldn’t want her to choose mine.

I think it’s really sweet that you do this though…I just can’t relate. Does it really help? I could try it just to see. DC does ask me to wear certain things so I could see it being really fun for her…hmmm...

I probably need to do a little more reading about the control issue. Maybe I’ll stop by the TCS web site again.

I’ve been on a few of the control threads recently and I can tell that I’m really at a stumbling block with this.

I’d love to hear any additional thoughts about control in general, I could clearly use it!

[hunnybumm]

I haven't read all the posts but the way I see it is if she is asking you to make a decision for her, then go with and make the decision. But also let her know that if she doesn't like your decision she can let you know. Even now, at 25, there are times when I wish my mom would make some decisions for me. At times it also might be too much stress on her to be making so many decisions and this is her way of asking for help.

[fuller2]

I'm the child of a mother who has a really hard time making any decision, including in parenting--and I have to say that it was not a good way to be. For her it comes mostly from not wanting to offend anyone and being nice, but it can make things really open-ended and confusing. I think it is unfair to "let" a small child make a lot of decisions--I think kids really want their parents' boundaries and guidance. I mean, letting them choose between chicken and fish for dinner, that sort of thing, seems perfectly healthy and good to me--but later on, if mothering ends up being mostly asking the kid what they want to do and then doing it like you're their servant or something is not healthy for anyone. (I constantly have huge guilt about deciding on things my mom actually didn't like very much but which she wasn't assertive enough to tell me about.)

My mom is great, and I was a pretty independent kid, so maybe she was following my lead a bit--but I have to say that all these years later I really wish she had pushed me more, or enforced certain limits more. She let me make decisions about things I wasn't really prepared to decide about, and as a result I sometimes gave up on things when they got difficult too early, that sort of thing, when I should have been pushed to continue, or else made bad choices because I simply didn't know what my options actually were. I guess the consequences of her very open-ended approach was that all choices ended up being equal somehow, even the bad ones. It also had the weird effect of making what I DID do seem equally unimportant, even though she never meant it like that.

Just posting this as a balance of sorts, I guess, though maybe it belongs in some Adult Children Of Permissive Parents support group thread!!

[jlspalding]

oops

oops

[jlspalding]

OH SHOOT!

I started to respond to the "DC seems to be craving control" and when I got halfway done, I realized that it really should be a new thread. Then I lost it, had to start all over again, and I obviously got lost!

sorry about that-

Jessica