Why can't a WOHM be a LLL leader?

[A&L+1]

Okay, I haven't verified this exactly, but I was told that you can't be "involved" with LLL if you work out of the home because you do not meet a certain standard of commitment to mothering. Can anyone here comment on or verify this?

[Firemom]

We had a discussion about this last year and apparantly there were some working moms who were LLL leaders. I was turned down because of it, but I guess its who does your review.

I was totally involved with LLL for 10 years. I think its a great organzation and I pay my annual dues to this day.

[chersolly]

So you can't have a job, outside being a mother, and be a leader?

[marisa724]

When I was beginning the process the district contact person had me confused with someone else and thought I was a WOHM (I'm not). From what I gathered there may be a little more work involved, maybe some more writing/discussing/meeting with higher-ups?

But it sounds to me like it is up to the individual chapters to sponsor a WOHM, and the individual district or state or however they divide it up to allow it through.

[phathui5]

I don't remember exactly how to word it, but working away from the baby full-time doesn't fit with the LLL philosophy that prolonged separation from mom can be harmful to the baby and that being with mom is a need that babies have, just like nursing or being held.

From what I understand, you can work part-time or have a job where baby goes with you, but you can't leave the baby for 40 hours a week.

[Fiercemama]

There are different levels of "involvement" in LLL. Any mother can attend a meeting, provided there is one in her area at a suitable time (not always the case for WOHMs). Anyone can assist in a group with "helper" duties, such as group librarian, greeter, fundraising, etc etc. But I think you are specifically referring to leadership.

I am a leader applicant and close to finishing my application, and work FT outside the home.

I thought about this a lot before I decided to start my application. I have had some lengthy conversations with my sponsoring leader about it. There is nothing that says explicitly that you cannot be a leader and a WOHM. There is some history in the organization that is not supportive of WOHM leaders, and apparently there are still some women in the organization who do not believe a WOHM should be a leader. I personally have not encountered them, everyone I've met has been very supportive.

Before I started my application, I read the memoirs of the 7 founders, "Seven Voices, One Dream". There are definately comments in there that do not support WOHMs, let alone WOHM leaders. I did my own personal poll of WOHMs to ask if they felt supported by LLL. The answers were pretty much what I expected. There was a split between yes and no. The no answers were either a) there were only daytime meetings in my area, or b) the leader had never been a WOHM and was dismissive of what I was doing. To me, it showed that there is a need for WOHM leaders, and also that the most important thing about LLL is the individuals who make it up. I took the founders comments with a grain of salt, and tried to put them in the historical context of women who were SAHMs during the 50's. One of our awesome leaders here in Toronto was a single WOHM, and she told me that she got in under the wire, before a period when it was NOT allowed. I guess this changed at some later point.

During the application process, you go through your own personal breastfeeding history with someone from the Leader Accreditation Dept, to ensure that you espouse the LLL philosophy. The LAD may ask you to clarify or expand on parts of your history. For me, it was a lot about my return to work. The LAD confirmed for me that it is quite unusual for a WOHM to be a leader. I went a bit on the defensive, but my sponsoring leader assured me that what they are looking for is acknowledgement that you have handled any separation from your child with sensitivity. There were also questions about how I will juggle the responsibilities and time commitment. I don't have a terribly active social life. Being involved in LLL is part of my "me" time, something that I'm going to make time for anyways, because its personally rewarding, not another obligation to squeeze in. I also waited til I'd been back at work for over a year and DD was 2+ before starting my application.

I suspect that these attitudes vary greatly from region to region, depending on the individuals in charge. There is lots of room for interpretation of the LLL philosophy. I think that here in Toronto, there is a recognition that there are a lot of WOHMs who would like to participate in LLL and need their support. At the meetings I've attended over the last 2.5 years, there have been either a lot of mums on mat leave, or WOHMs. I think that the higher ups are cognizant of the fact that if they want to strengthen the organization and broaden its membership, they have to find a way to make it accessible to WOHMs.

Here is the LLL philosophy. http://www.lalecheleague.org/philosophy.html The item that seems to be the hang up is "In the early years the baby has an intense need to be with his mother which is as basic as his need for food. "

[Peony]

I recently went through the application process, and there was another woman ahead of me who works outside home FT. LLL wants to know HOW you handle the seperation, if it done with baby's needs in mind, then it's different. There are WAHMs and FT working moms that would make better leaders then some SAHMs. Good luck.

[azedazobollis]

I am the only leader in my group that's a stay at home mom. I do belive that is the old "rule". Being a leader is a lot of work depending on where you area. Some areas can be easy and manageable with a group of co-leaders.

If you get negative feedback while entertaining the idea of becoming a leader, find someone a different mentor to assist you with your Leader Applicant proccess.

Best of Luck!

[A&L+1]

Thank you all so much for your replies so far.

I think what complicates this for me is that my partner is a SAHM for our daughter and I work (and nurse). We certainly have fulfilled the criteria for the statement: "In the early years the baby has an intense need to be with his mother which is as basic as his need for food." We just happen to double the mothering at our house!

I will talk to the LLL leaders here and get their view. Frankly I have not felt welcome and I have felt that my thoughts, comments, and contributions have been dismissed during meetings. The furstrating thing is that the majority of the women at our meetings say they intend to go back to work before weaning. I believe in respecting ALL nursing moms. I don't want to fight to be a part of an organization that believes that the only way to be a mom <read good, decent, and fit mom> is to be a SAHM.

[Clarity]

my friend in CO got given a very hard time - for leaving her child in day care 1 morning per week. Her local leader was fine and supportive - at the next level, that leader really did not want to approve her for LLL training at all. But as I read in a prior thread, it was not that long ago, c-sec moms could not be leaders, either. C-sec moms have a right to a successful nursing relationship, too. Thank god they're over that, but this is the same issue. When many members WOH, a leader who has some experience at it would be very helpful. In my local group the working moms answer a huge amount of the questions. What about WAHM moms? As a member, and non leader candidate, I feel like raising heck about this. If they truly think most leaders exemplify ideal parenting, I think many many people who attend a meeting would run screaming. On one hand they say it's all about the BF - everything take what works but leave the rest - but then in practice it seems otherwise.

[soccerchic21]

I WOH PT and I am going through the application process of becoming a leader. My working does not seem like a problem.

[Patchfire]

Three years ago, give or take, I was highly discouraged by the local Leaders from even applying for membership. Because I was in college, and dd went to a preschool program for less than four hours, three days a week (and that was not until past six months). Honestly, the whole experience put a bad taste in my mouth and I avoided LLL until just recently - we've moved and it's a different group. I think it really is a YMMV issue, depending on the local group.

[soccerchic21]

one thing to always keep in mind that LLL varies so much from region to region. In my area LLL ROCKS!!! But I have heard of midwest groups that are horrible. It all depends on the people running LLL groups in the area.

[asherah]

Yes, but the national leadership must surely set the tone.
I intend to contact them about this.
If it is true that it is acceptable to shut out wohm's, I will be canceling my membership and I will never ever send them another penny.

[loving-my-babies]

From what I have read, it is not correct that WOHM cannot be LLL leaders. There was an article on this subject in a previous issue of Leaven magazine. It said that even though it has been common belief that WOHM cannot be leaders, it is not true, and it depends on various circumstances.

[candiland]

I would assume that there's a reason for that rule...

firstly, many women with infants who need the most support would want morning meetings. Esp. since many have toddlers or other children, as well. That way the kids would either be in school or at the meeting, with mom, at a "reasonable" time.

Secondly, LLL leaders generally have to be available at all times. Our local LLL leaders were SAHMs and came over several times a day during the first few weeks of my dd's life because we were experiencing EXTREME difficulty during that period. If the leader would have had a 40 hour work week, I would've been screwed.

I can see how it can be viewed as "shutting out", but I can also see that there's some logic behind it.

[asherah]

I worked late evenings.. and would have had PLENTY of time to devote. Unless meetings are held at 11pm... or you are expected to visit at 11pm.

I think the rule should be that women must make a certain time committment. If they can meet that while working fine. If they can't, then of course they can't be leaders.
Banning wohms outright is exclusionary. Period.

And again, if it is true, they will not get another penny from me.
And I have been pretty freaking generous in giving them a fair amount of the money I earn being a wohm.

Organizations that shut me out for working are not entitled to the money I earn doing so.

[loving-my-babies]

aserah.. I recommend you contact the organization to clarify this for you, I know that LLL does not say that work-outside-the-home moms cannot be leaders, so I don't feel it excludes working mothers at all. But I would definetely contact a leader in your area, or through their website, to get an answer, I know they wouldn't want to lose your support.

[asherah]

I plan to, Carmen, thanks.
I am not going to go off on them before I have all the facts.. the journalist in me wouldn't let me do that

[loving-my-babies]