Supernanny Sucks - Page 2

[paganmommy]

Some of her techniques I agree with. I think timeout is ok and it works for my kids. Yelling like a maniac doesn't work for us, just kidding. Anyway, the sleep stuff was horrible. It works I know but it is so sad. Everyone made fun of my kids because they were so attached, but now they are older and so much more independent and unafraid. My youngest was very attached but he is the only kid the first day of school who isn't crying or clinging. He knows I will be home when he gets home and if I say I will pick him up I will. He trusts me. That is what we are talking about, trust.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I have endless problems with these shows…

[dawningmama]

I watched last night's episode and I really don't know why. The entire concept of the show really bothers me. The whole idea just furthers this "us-vs-them" attitude of parenting. She just has some new ways of manipulating both parents and kids into tiny little boxes of acceptable behavior.

On last night's episode, I just for the life of me could not understand why that little girl had to give up the bed in the hallway. I mean, I'm not sure I'm down with the reason the parents first set that bed up for her, but at this point, what damage was the second bed doing? Why, in the midst of so many strangers in her house and changes going on in her parents' behavior, did she have to give up something that so obviously provided her with comfort? That whole thing was really what this show is about for me----random, arbitrary rules for the sake of having rules. Saying no loud and often so that children will know they have no free will.

[monkey's mom]

See, I think time-outs work in the same way that the sleep stuff works. It's a short term fix that has potential negative consequences farther down the line.

The children in last night's show were acting their worst out of frustration. The mom gave the 2 yr. old wood blocks and he started to throw them into the hallway. She told him, "No! Don't throw the blocks, Billy." so he threw the plastic container. Then she wrenched the blocks out of his hands and he freaked. DUH. Then she put him a time-out.

If throwing the blocks were a problem, why couldn't you give the kid something soft to throw and make that a fun game to play together? "Billy, we can't throw the hard blocks--someone could get an owie! Buuuuuut, [dramatic flourish] we can throw THEEEEESE! TA-DA!" and produce something soft and harmless. Or at a minimum, give the kid a chance to hand over the blocks himself, or remove them gently.

And seriously, the kid DID stop throwing the blocks. He threw an empty plastic container. I didn't see the problem with that. But, I think it was more about the power struggle at that point.

The daughter was punished because she was upset the little brother picked up a toy that she had brought down to play with. She wasn't using it at the time, so the mother just told her basically, "Too bad." Why couldn't they have at least listened to the girls' reasoning? I understand that feeling of wanting to use something first that you've gotten out. I just don't get why they couldn't have talked that situation out. The girl got frustrated and threw down the keyboard she was playing with and the mom accused her of throwing it AT the brother and put her in the naughty room. I didn't think she was aiming at the brother at all--she could've totally clocked him if she'd wanted to.

I just watched all the self-soothing behavior the girl exhibited while in time-out (thumb sucking, hair twirling) and thought it was pretty profound. When she came out of that room she was desperate to re-connect with the mother. I think that's the violation of trust that damages attachment.

And basically setting up a jail cell in my house that can ONLY be used for punishment is something I would run screaming from.

[Mamid]

I don't like the jailhouse room concept. We've tried it here but got complaints from our neighbours that our son screamed too much in them.

see.... all this only works if you don't have nosey neighbours above and beside you. It only works if you have the spare rooms (we don't). I'd be too afraid that our son would throw things around in that room and destroy it (he has even when he wasn't in a time out and just playing).

But because we have nosey neighbours, we can't let him scream or throw tantrums. We got an eviction threat because of his screams and because we weren't being evicted, they called the cops on us two days ago and CPS showed up. Like WTF? we were bloody well doing a spring purge because DD is now mobile ala Hammish Mcphearson and the social worker called my housekeeping a pig sty etc etc etc. Yet that arse upstairs is allowed to snore so loud my baby can't sleep in bed even beside me? I swear they hate children up there.

Anyway, we have been trying the time out corner. No, we don't force DS to stand facing the wall, but we do require him to stay in that corner till the timer goes off. And, of course, he screams those ear piercing i-am-an-abused-kid-getting-the-hell-beaten-out-of-me type screams during his entire time out. Once the timer goes off he is suddenly oh so happy but that doesn't correct his behaviour. And yes, we are getting down to his level and all that.

But once again, my point is that the families Jojo is supposedly helping all have the room to spare. I'd like to see her deal with a family living in cramped living conditions where mom and dad can barely move in their tiny bedroom because the dresser is inches from the bed, and two or more children have to share one room and there is no yard for them to play in.

And yes, the social worker told us we have to get a bigger place. Again. :

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Don't worry, Mamid...There’s hope for you yet. With all the editing they can still make it look like all your problems have been solved and then some.

[Mamid]

One thing I noticed about Jojo is that she's doing the same pop psyche that Dr Pill is doing. Tears the adults down in two sentences then tells them "this is how you fix it or else." And if the parents relapse, oh they are such naughty parents and she goes and rescues them. :

It takes time to change old habits. It simply can not be done in a day or even a week. We've been working at it for two years and we still fall back into the ways our parents raised us.

But again, I have yet to see Jojo deal with a family in a cramped condition - 2 bedroom appartment and family of 4. If she can take a child like the 4yo boy from last week and calm him down in that cramped quarters, then I'll take her more seriously.

As it is right now, watching it is like watching Fear Factor or a train wreck - Horrible yet fascinating.

As for the "emergency social worker" .... We're contemplating calling up the man who was our social worker and bitching at him for letting us fall through the cracks. Who knows.. maybe we can get a letter from them to speed us into a low income housing place?

And thanks IDCMama. Watching Supernanny also makes us realize that our child is "normal" because if higher income families can have children like our son, then ours is normal even with his "developmental delays" and hearing loss.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by Mamid

And thanks IDCMama.

Just wanted to be 100% clear ~ I was making a crack at this show and how they can make anything look however they want, yk?

The end point being that it’s all a bunch of crap :LOL

Sorry to hear that things aren’t going well for you. Winter is hard enough but being in a cramped apartment must make it even more challenging. May spring come your way soon.

[MamaOui]

So many comments, so little time. What was up with JoJo expecting a 2 year old to get through a game of CandyLand? And why was he punished for not having the attention span to deal with it?

[Ary99]

I also thought the expectation of a two year old playing Candy Land wasn't developmentally appropriate.

I think she has some useful tools quite frankly, such as getting on the child's level and changing tone of voice to get attention, and I think there is something to be said for routine. I also like the fact that she's been very direct with overworked parents in telling them they need to cut down their schedules to spend more time with the kids, and she explains to children why it is not ok to throw or hit, etc. I'm not too keen on the "naughty" concept as I was a very sensitive child and would have been mortified to be sent to Naughty Land.

Some behavior os blown way out of proportion though. I also didn't know what the big deal was about the little girl having the extra bed.

I could sit here and pretend to bash Super Nanny, but I find peeks into the lives of other parents fascinating. I'll be watching again next Monday night.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by MamaOui

So many comments, so little time. What was up with JoJo expecting a 2 year old to get through a game of CandyLand? And why was he punished for not having the attention span to deal with it?

Yeah, that was awful. And Monkey'sMom articulated our concerns well. Good to hear it from other parents.

I wish JoJO would have leaned into the dad and said more to him.

[NYCVeg]

I also found some aspects of the show appalling--but I did like that she told the dad that spanking was not only ineffective, but actually counter-productive; and that she told the mom that sending the daughter to the "naughty room" because of her feelings--rather than her behavior--was not okay, followed by something about how children need to be allowed to feel whatever they want to feel.

Why oh why do I watch this garbage???

[dolphinkisser]

I am so afraid that the mother is doing so much psychological trauma as a result of accepting supernanny's way. She turned this mother more into a rule setter than a nurturer. The kids see mom as robot and she says that the girl sleeping in the hallway is being treated like a pet. Jo is treating the kids like a pet with all her 'pavlov dog' experiment concepts.
What about dealing with the feelings underlying the behavior? What about helping them have coping strategies and learning more healthy ways to deal with anger and frustration. This girl was just put in the naughty room with no concern of how she was feeling and what was causing the behavior. The message she is getting is that i don't care , there is no excuse ...just don't do this. She still had so much frustration. Then mom demanded that she say sorry before she got out of the naughty room. Like what did that teach her? Only that she is going to have to be manipulative and say what mommy wants to hear so that she can have her own way.
I was also so put off by Jo's negativity...she was always saying " Don't do this! This is not asseptable!" ..every frigin thing was Don't or no! Those kids are going to have such a complex!! Jow about showing them or telling them what IS acceptable!! Gving them some positive alternatives. I saw no attention given to apppropriate behavior...it was like the kids could do nothing right. Neither the parents for that matter.
It was about time that someone stood up to Jo and say that she does not appreciate the way she judges them ( like the dad did)....she took such comfort in knocking down the parents and blaming them for everything. I take offence when people judge my situation and think that they know and have a solution for my situation which they know nothing about. Kids are kids...they are individuals and one size does NOT fit all.
I can go on...it is just so scary how so many people think she is such a savior...it is a rage.

[Itlbokay]

Originally Posted by mainegirl

Did you trip her?

*ahem* Sorry...gut reaction

tee hee

[Losgann]

Just wanted to pop in

I just fired our behavior therapist. My son is 8 with Aspergers and he tantrums A LOT. So she was supposedly trying to help stop the tantrumming.

Her way of doing it was to come over, push all his buttons, set him off, and then plunk him in his room for over an hour while he screamed and then sobbed uncontrollably. She wouldn't "process him out" until he calmed down completely. I couldn't take it and told her to leave.

She mentioned "Do you watch Supernanny?" I told her "I've heard of it," in a derisive tone. She said "It's just like that."

We'd gone round and round about my being AP and then she spouts that nonsense at me.. Needless to say she won't be back. We're interviewing another therapist this afternoon.

All she did was torture my ds. He couldn't stand her, didn't trust her so how is his behavior supposed to get better? And if he never gained any trust in *her* with her methods, how was it supposed to work any different for us using them?

Same thing with Supernanny. It's a fad, and hopefully it will die a horrible yet quick death.

[Deja]

Another perspective.

I read this thread with great interest. It would please me if I could respond in such a way that might create an openness to consider the techniques used by 'Super Nanny' from another perspective.

The mothers responding here obviously love their children very much and I can see how much it pains you to see your children or other children who are experiencing emotional upset. I ask you to consider the following;

Emotional upset causes pain, obviously. It is difficult to see your child experiencing pain, of course. What I have seen in my twenty two years working with preschool children and their parents has caused me to believe that there is a trend in parenting in which well meaning parents attempt to protect their children from any emotional distress whatsoever.

Naturally some types of emotional distress should be avoided and soothed, but what I've observed is a tendency to attempt to prevent ANY emotional distress. I would just ask you to consider the possibility that as parents, one of the most profound gifts that we can give our children is to teach them to develop the skills that will enable them to handled the upsets that they will inevitably experience throughout their lives in the most effective manner. This cannot happen if our strategies are designed to protect the child from upsets to the extent that I'm seeing today.

This extreme attention to detail in terms of protecting the children from distress has produced children who do not know how to cope with internal turmoil. In a nearby, very affluent community, this dynamic has tragically resulted in teenagers who, when finally confronted with situations that required the abilities that they were never required to develop as preschoolers, died in accidental overdoses in their attempts to soothe themselves once they were finally exposed to life obstacles in which their parents were not there to handle things for them.

My observations of 'Super Nanny's' techniques lead me to believe that her methods are respectful of the child. An adult sitting on a chair facing a wall would indeed be shamed. Please consider the possibility that in concluding that this is shameful to a child, perhaps there is an aspect of projecting adult responses into the young child's psyche.

Children rely on adults to establish clear boundaries. They lack the reasoning skills to discuss these issues with us, therefore adult attempts to reason with a child who is flooded emotionally and unable to listen are completely futile and serve the needs of the adults without addressing the needs of a child in the situation.

Children are not happy of course, when these boundaries are set. But they are relieved and greatly empowered. They become more confident and secure. Their world becomes a more predictable place, which develops a sense of efficacy in navigating through childhood. This enables your child to build coping skills and mechanisms that will serve him beautifully for a lifetime. There is no greater gift you can give to your precious child.

[FancyPants]

It takes time to change old habits. It simply can not be done in a day or even a week. We've been working at it for two years and we still fall back into the ways our parents raised us.

I agree 100%

Mostly when I look at my kids I see what I have to change and almost never is it something easy and quick. Usually it points to something long standing.

I worked on temper (mine) - rage really - for a long time. It's been a problem in my family (father's side) for generations. I've been aware of my problems with it since I was 4 years old when I smashed a riding toy on the cement ground outside so hard I broke it (trust me this was a pretty substantial well-built toy). I've been working on this for nearly 30 years before achieving true success.
But of course, I'm sure a pop pyschologist on t.v. could have made me all better in just one visit.
Even two years is not a long time to change ingrained patterns of responding.
Good on you Mamid. It sounds like you have it pretty rough right now.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by Deja

.
My observations of 'Super Nanny's' techniques lead me to believe that her methods are respectful of the child. An adult sitting on a chair facing a wall would indeed be shamed. Please consider the possibility that in concluding that this is shameful to a child, perhaps there is an aspect of projecting adult responses into the young child's psyche.

I was with you, or could at least see your point, until here.

What evidence do you have that a child sitting on a chair facing a wall does not feel shame? How would such a punishment work if the child did not feel shame? If seating the child separately in this way is intended only to help them calm down and cool off, why do they have to face the wall? Why does the Super Nanny send the child to the "Naughty Room" if not to employ shame?

The very premise that children don't have the same emotions as adults...what can I say, it's the most dehumanizing theory of child rearing I have encountered. (Perhaps you have not considered the implications of this statement, let me give you the benefit of that.) There is such an obvious difference between setting limits and boundaries that make a child feel secure, and humiliating them. I think it's possible to set limits that protect a child from harm and socialize them to good behavior without intentionally inflicting pain, even emotional pain.

[candiland]

Wow, Deja, great post. Lots of food for thought

Two of my friends... both who are totally AP, did child-led weaning, etc... were talking about this show last week. I went, "Aack! Isn't it terrible? I haven't seen it, but I've read all about it on my message board..." and they said, "Oh, no! I love it! They finally brought some sanity into these families' lives!"

I guess I'll have to watch and see for myself.

[Deja]

Captain Optimism;
I appreciate your comments and the ability to clarify what I was attempting to convey. My post was already so long, and the subject of child development is a complex one...it's simply impossible to convery every nuance that I would like to convey with any degree of conciseness. Your comments allow me to attempt to clear up any potential misunderstanding, and I do appreciate that.

I am not saying, nor do I believe in ANY WAY, that children have different emotions than adults do; no, of course not. What I am trying to express is that their context is different than ours.

As an adult, there are very few situations in which it would not be shameful and humiliating to have to literally obey another person without understanding the reasons that this is required of me. A child however, must obey another person even when he is incapable of understanding the reasons that this behavior is required of him. An example; my daughter, at the age of two, had a terrible habit of attempting to get away from me and run through crowded parking lots. She was quite small and I was terrified that she would get hit by a car. She was quite independent and abhorred being carried through the parking lot. In this situation, it is clear that the child MUST obey the adult regardless of whether she could fully comprehend the reasons why. There are MANY examples of greater subtlety in which the issues are interapersonal, not physical safety, in which a child must learn to obey behaviors for reasons that he cannot understand, developmentally.

I am attempting to establish that the context is often quite different for a child. Now, obviously there are a great many examples of how a child's responses will be the same as the responses of an adult. There is a high degree of complexity to these issues, subtleties of nuance that require a great deal of distinction. In other words, it ain't easy to be a parent and to do it right. ;-)

These nuances come into play in this 'child facing a wall' scenario. Not all children are the same, I think that all mothers here will agree with that. Some children are so sensitive that they burst into tears at the gentlest rebuke, and those children could very well be shamed by facing a wall. Other children have temperaments that require an approach that strengthens the boundaries. I do not find, for those types of temperaments, that sitting them in a chair and having them face the wall, is a shameful experience as long as the discipline is not accompanied by shaming talk. With those spirited children, who I respect and adore for their spunk and independence, it is an issue of self-control They do not yet have it. It is a skill that they must develop. The adult must exert the control where the child can and will not, with gradually development of the child's own abilities to regulate her behaviors. In time, it will become less and less necessary for the adult to establish these external controls and one day the child is an adult empowered with the skills that she needs to be happy and successful in her life.

I hope that helps somewhat in clarifying what I intended to say.

Now, you say that you believe that "it is possible to set limits and boundaries that protect a child from harm and socialize them to good behavior without intentionally inflicting pain, even emotional pain."

First, I would never have as my motive in my strategy with any child, the intent to inflict emotional pain. Perhaps this is exactly what needs to be teased out in with this issue. I don't like for children to feel emotional pain, and know that this is true of the community here. What I am saying is this; there are times when I do know that my strategy will upset the child, because the child only wants what he wants, and not getting it upsets him and causes him real pain. I know that his inability to get what he wants will cause him emotional pain. Does the establishment of boundaries then constitute intentional infliction of emotional pain?

I ask you to just consider the possibility that the pain I avoid in choosing not to firmly establish those boundaries, is my own pain in doing what is best for the child but which upsets him.

Learning to tolerate our own discomfort when our children are upset is appropriate; we are the adults in the situation. It is hard. We love our children and don't want them to feel pain, emotional or otherwise. But it is in learning to deal with what is a shattering disappointment as a small child (not getting what you want) that critical life skills are born and developed.

You won't be able to protect your child forever. But you CAN provide your child will skills which will enable her to cope with the unavoidable pain and distress of life, and those skills WILL last a lifetime.

As I said before, this is an amazingly powerful gift of love from a parent to a child. And it requires some sacrifice on our parts to give it. As my own mother often told me, "When you are faced with a dilemma and you don't know what's righ, the right thing is usually the hardest thing to do."