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post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
deleting.....
post #2 of 57
Sodium Polyacrylate is not the only objectionable chemical in sposies. It has been implicated in the TSS outbreak and is no longer used in tampons, why would I want it near my child's genitals. Have you seen the MSDS sheet for SP? But there is also Dioxin a by product of the bleaching process which is EXTREMELY toxic AND carcinogenic.

I used sposies exclusively on my ds because I didn't know there was an alternative other than Gerber prefolds and pins and plastic pants. With dd I did a lot of research, and I CHOOSE to use cloth. I still use sposies rarely if necessary, but I don't feel comfortable using them now.

I'm sure many mamas will have more info on the other health and environmental concerns with sposies.
post #3 of 57
:
post #4 of 57
I was in a science group in high school that went around to the elementaries doing 'magic' science tricks. One of mine involved SP -- pouring water from one styrafoam cup to another, then turning the second cup upside down with *gasp* no water coming out (this thrills little kids.. it was fun). Of course the second cup had SP at the bottom, absorbing the liquid (there was enough powder that the bit of water poured in would become quite solid and not come out).

Phew... now that you see my inner geekiness... ... For me, using cloth goes far beyond the gel beads (which really are gross... I don't want that by my babe's bum).

There's a much different philosophy with sposies with the general public (Luvs' 'holding back the Hoover Dam' is a perfect example... dipes should be changed when they are wet -- not tested to see how much they can hold)... and then of course environmental impact and.. heck, cloth is FUN for us (well me at least, dh doesn't mind cloth but isn't near as excited as I am )!!!
post #5 of 57
Yep, the dioxin in sposies was what first got me interested in cloth.

I also wanted to add that a big part of the environmental issue is the chemicals used in the manufacturing of sposies. I'm sure some mamas have info on this that I don't have onhand right now.
post #6 of 57
Thread Starter 
deleting because i dont have time to continue explaining myself....sorry to offend...
post #7 of 57
In addition to what the above posters have mentioned, there are additional additives like the smelly perfume they add. Now that I know am more knowledgeable about what is in the regular sposie there is no way on Earth another one will ever touch my dd's tush. On the rare occasion we have used a sposie we only use Tushies. Besides the chemicals, I fully agree with what Holli said about the environmental impact of sposies. In fact, when we switched to cloth it made me think and change many other ways how we lived in our house.
post #8 of 57
Thread Starter 
deleting..
post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennisee
I also wanted to add
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2be
i just also wanted to add...
Oh, this is one of THOSE threads. I was trying to be polite, but I see this thread is going to get nasty.
post #10 of 57
Quote:
yes, i know there have been claims that there may be *trace* amounts of dioxin left from the bleaching process in sposies.
Dioxin "has been classified by the World Health Organization as a Class 1 Carcinogen (which means it is a known human carcinogen). Dioxin is a by-product of the paper bleaching process and the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) says that skin rashes, liver damage, weight loss, and a reduction in the effectiveness of the immune system have all been attributed to human exposure of dioxins."

Sorry but even a *trace* of Dioxin is too much for me when I consider that babies are constantly in a diaper (wet or dry) for the first 2-3+ years of their lives.
post #11 of 57
i don't know what's in them. All I know is what they do to Emma's bum when she wears them. Bad rash! I have the same problem with feminine pads. THat's I went with cloth. And I'm glas I did, because it does affect her like it does me.
post #12 of 57
Thread Starter 
deleted
post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2be
yes, i know there have been claims that there may be *trace* amounts of dioxin left from the bleaching process in sposies. since the diapers come into contact with the genitals, and some people worry about potential reproductive cancers...currently, there is no evidence that this is the case.
Considering that sposies have only been in widespread use for around 30 years there will still be some time before reproductive cancers associated with the use of disposable diapers is proven.

And yet there is more to worry about than just SP and dioxin.

Quote:
One study, conducted by Anderson Laboratories in 1999 and published in the Archives of Environmental Health, found that disposable diapers do release chemicals called volatile organic compounds (VOCs), including toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene and dipentene. All of these VOCs have been shown to have toxic health effects, such as cancer and brain damage, with long-term or high level exposure.
http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/...sp?Main_ID=554

Quote:
Another study by Anderson Laboratories, a private corporation, monitored mice with pneumotachographs while they breathed emissions from three brands of disposable diapers and one brand of cloth diapers. The Anderson’s report outlined the specific measures taken by the scientists while performing the test. The scientists experiment resulted in the conclusion that certain brands of disposable diapers emit mixtures of chemicals that are toxic to the respiratory tract and that disposable diapers should be considered as one of the factors that may exacerbate or cause asthma. Further studies are needed to determine whether the use of certain types of disposable diapers is associated with childhood respiratory illnesses.
http://pages.ivillage.com/carosyrup/...ecisions1.html

I have more to add but the baby is waking.
post #14 of 57
Elise, I do understand where you are coming from. We all have to make benefit/risk assessments every day, and there are times when we have to choose the riskier option b/c we simply cannot implement the more beneficial option. But, just b/c I am surrounded by chemicals everywhere does not mean that I should throw in the towel and give up. (But, I guess my signature probably gave away how I felt about that.) I do what I can to minimize my DD's exposure, and for me, switching to cloth (after 7 months in sposies) was a very easy step to implement. Other steps have not been as easy, but I'm working on it...
post #15 of 57
I am also aware of some studies which show that the lack on breathability of disposable diapers raises the temp in male testes and may be linked to later reproductive issues...

Also, the environmental impact is clear.... it is a simple matter of one time use versus reusable items even if manufacture and processing are ruffly equal in impact... plus many of us choose organic fabrics which are grown without pesticides and do not comtain chemicals...

Disposables also pose a serious environmental hazard when the poopy contents are not flushed as is instructed on the packaging...

Plus, who wants to wear paper 24/7! Do you know of any adults who chose paper underwear :LOL

too late to think of more...

Jen
post #16 of 57
To the OP-I know what you are saying...my dh basically says the same, and I do not think you are evil for sharing that mama.

Here is my beef with the stuff;

1. Saying that its chemical properties are safe is not the same thing as determining that it is safe for human use. This theory has been proven time and time again from real life experience(asbestos, X-ray, radiation, lead). All of these things were used with or in close proximity to humans after chemists, and other science minded folks, determined their properties were safe. However, how these chemicals or elements actually effected humans was determined later, much to the disappointment of several, right?
SP has only been used on human babies for the last 20 years or so, so to me, the effects on humans has really yet to be determined. Afterall, again, think about this...asbestos were around for a while before we starting using them, and everyone conculded they were non-toxic, their properties atleast. HOwever, after use involving humans, it became clear, several years later, that they were infact not so harmless to us afterall. How long did it take us to ban lead paint? KWIM? Who knows, the stuff may end up being totally fine and safe, but if there is any question at all, which I think there is considering we have not used it on babies for a real long period of time, then why even chance it? The research in this area is incomplete. Was it linked to TSS? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it linked to future male infertility? Maybe. Maybe not. I have looked into the studies and the theories on it, and I have concluded that there is not a clear answer really either way, but only a possible risk, a possible connection, and I do not want to use my child as the determining guinea pig.

2. Why use any chemcials at all if you do not have to? Sure, it may be harmless and useful to plants, but so is a ammonia. However, I am not going to use ammonia on my son.

All in all, it just does not make sense to me. I find it weird that we would use, albeit even a safe, gel on our babies when we can use regular old cotton.

Anyhow, again, there is a big diff between saying an element or chemical's properties are harmless and then concluding that it is safe for human use. Just ask your DH to look into asbestos and lead. At one point, a chemist like him, concluded that these things would be safe because their properties seemed harmless. It was only later that they discovered that they were harmful to us!
post #17 of 57
Oh yes, ITA with trishack-the asthma thing is clear IMO-no guesses there. Alot of Pulmonologists and Resp. therapists will recc not using these when your baby has a resp illness or problem-that to me is enough. Who wants an irritant in your precious babies young lungs?
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2be
i think cloth is wonderful, but soooo many mamas on here are so judgemental towards sposie users....i just wanted to share a little info...
Sticking my nose in (no suprise to people who know me IRL! :LOL)... I appreciate mommy2be's intent. I think it's great that so many mamas choose to CD- I CD too.

BUT I also think it's good to be supportive of each other here, even if other mamas don't make the same choices we make. Some mamas choose to use sposies, or have to use them even if they'd rather not. We've had a few threads about mamas using sposies and most of them felt badly already, they don't need others to make them feel worse.

Each mama makes decisions based on what's best for her own family, and IMO, the rest of us should respect those choices, and either support them or at least avoid criticizing each other. Shouldn't a community of friends be there for each other all the time, not just when we agree?
Sorry, off the now! I hope I didn't offend anyone, please don't me!
post #19 of 57
I can't pretend to know a whole lot about the science of cloth, but what Heidi said is basically where I'm at on disposables (and vaccines, too, incidentally) - we haven't been doing it long enough to be sure that it's safe, and I'd prefer not to have my kids be guinea pigs.

Amy, I see what you're saying - and it's great to try and patch it all up - but honestly most of us feel very strongly about cloth diapering. I don't think we do a lot of flaming of people who post here, even if they are sposie users or part time sposie users. Heck, I use them sometimes (though I hate doing it) and I have never felt judged here about that. If someone is going to post here about why they think disposable diapers are an okay choice, then we have the right to discuss it and defend our choice of cloth in a tactful and kind manner. I think that's all that's happened here.
I do appreciate Elise's bravery and also the facts that she's presenting - I'm sure there's truth to what she's saying. But there's also truth to the studies that say disposable diapers are not 100% safe.

And fwiw, many of us do not use cotton diapers because of the chemicals used on cotton. We use hemp or organic cotton.

I know I can't keep my children safe from all chemical exposure, but I'm definitely going to try my best to shield them from everything that is within my power to control, like formula, disposable diapers, and vaccines.
post #20 of 57
OK I will stick my neck out too...

I think that the OP is correct in saying that the SP is considered non-toxic. That's a fact, or as close as science and our culture can get to one. And I don't think she is saying people should use disposables, or dissing cloth users.

I think her idea in posting might be something like, if you want to tell people that they should not use disposables, you should use arguments that are scientifically supportable. (I hope I am not putting words in her mouth!)

There are plenty of good reasons to use cloth, of course. I kind of wonder why everyone gets their hackles up so much when sposies are not dismissed as disgusting and toxic...?
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