sp - Page 2

[mistymama]

I have no problem with the gel beads (besides the fact they are nasty when they get in the genital area)

My problem with sposies is that they are NOT biodegradable. They will be sitting in our landfills for the next 100+ years, not to mention the ground water contamination issue if people don't flush the poop (which most sposie users don't)

Dioxin is also a major concern for me.

The chemicals used and released in the production of sposies are also a major concern.

Now I'm not a "all sposies are evil" gal, and I even let my Mom use sposies on Alex when she watches him (although I try to buy the Tushies brand, sometimes she uses her own Huggies)

But there is no way I could feel good about using sposies full time because they ARE bad for the environment. Period.

[jraohc]

I read something similar to emmalala in the original post. I read a note that the current science considers SP to be non-toxic. I think it needs to be taken in context of the another thread which was talking about SP and made it sound like SP was toxic.

I agree that whether or not SP is toxic there are other great reasons to use cloth, but I don't really think that's where the original poster was going with this topic.

[Trishy]

While I do not know if anyone has called SP toxic, it is not safe IMO. The MSDS for SP says to avoid contact with skin and to wash skin continuously for 15 minutes if it comes in contact. Just because something is not toxic doesn't mean it should be on your butt 24/7.

[milk4two]

That's interesting. Thanks for posting the info.

[jessicaSAR]

Well, I need to actually see the studies. What kind of studies were done? Were they done on children with exposures typical to 24 hour diapering? When were they done? How long did they track the exposures? There are lots of things that are not harmful in single small exposures, that when multiplied and combined with other exposures can become harmful.

So post me some linkies so we can have a real discussion.

[twindaze]

I agree that there are so many good reasons to use cloth (mostly cost and environmental for me) that the SP issue is not relevant to me. I don't think it's toxic either, but I do think that cloth is a better way to go for all of the other reasons.

Believe me, the big diaper making company does extensive safety testing on their products, I used to work for them. However, those studies probably haven't been published. FWIW, I didn't work on diapers, but we did safety test the products I worked on.

[GeorgiaGalHeidi]

Jessica, that is the problem IMO-there really aren't any studies like this...this stuff has not be adequately studied the way that it is currently being used.

[jessicaSAR]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGalHeidi

Jessica, that is the problem IMO-there really aren't any studies like this...this stuff has not be adequately studied the way that it is currently being used.

I agree. This a such a problem with drugs as well as chemical exposures. Studies are done, but not necessarily on all the populations that will be using them. One of the things they have found with chemical exposures is that they often impact children differently because they effect development, and brain chemistry is different in developing children than in full grown adults ( I am no expert here but I have worked on children's environmental heath policy stuff, so I am familiar with many of these studies).

And, the amounts studied often do not take into account the smaller size of children. So the exposure is greater in someone who weighs 8 lbs, v. someone who weighs 180 lbs.

And, this gel stuff has not been around long enough to do adequate studies.

No offense to Elise, but I am not going to take the word of someone's best friend's dh. I think if you have done alot of research, I would like to see what you have researched.

[jennyriver]

Originally Posted by mommy2be

yes, i know there have been claims that there may be *trace* amounts of dioxin left from the bleaching process in sposies. since the diapers come into contact with the genitals, and some people worry about potential reproductive cancers...currently, there is no evidence that this is the case.

but also, like judy said, diapers are made to be changed...not sit on babys bum for hours after theyre wet...i change my ds at least every hour and a half...

most mamas i know of who CD use UNbleached cotton, organic cotton fibers and/or hemp. and as we have seen in many previous posts (and IRL), not as many mamas are as diligent about changing as you are!

there HAVE been studies, though, that directly link dioxin to endometriosis, which i personally suffer from. since it is also genetically linked (although not in my case - only my cousin and i suffer from it, coincidentally(?) being the 1st generation of sposie diapered babies in our family) i would never put anything with "trace" amounts of a known toxic substance on my DD. why play russian roulette with her future reproductive health? i also plan on serving her no meat for some time, if at all, and then only organic. same with dairy. as for breastmilk, i'm aware of the trace amounts that can be present but still must do the best i can for my baby - the alternative (formula) is no better. i also have switched to ONLY environmentally friendly cleaning products. i even try and dress her in as many organic fibers as i can.

my point: i try to reduce or eliminate where and when i can, not just toss my hands up in the air to say, "oh well, might as well just add more to the already unavoidable toxins in our environment"

i appreciate your knowledge on the subject and don't think you were being nasty at all. what you have to understand though, is that if you use sposies, you use the WHOLE diaper, not just the gel. so, while your original statement that gel isn't so bad may or may not be true, it doesn't then follow that sposies aren't so bad either. other than dioxin and any other chemical releases (from bleached cotton in sposies or any plastic parts) that occur in landfills, the gel in sposies only makes the diaper bulkier as it absorbs fluid. so, that tiny diaper you throw in the trash will expand exponentially when it hit the landfill, reducing space. now, you've thrown human waste (actually illegal because of how detrimental it is, but not enforced) into a landfill which most likely, will leak out of that diaper. if the landfill has any leaks (as is happening right now in my own town, with many reisdents private wells being tainted and them actually requiring bottled water) surrounding water sources are in danger of being poisoned. and then of course is the fact that diapers are made w/non-renewable resources...even if you firmly believe that the process of making or chemical release of sposies vs. cloth is equal, you can't argue that doing it time and time again for sposies is better than the minimal times it's done for cloth. if my cloth diaper and your sposie diaper contain the same amount of bad chemicals, non-renewable resources, etc...at bare minimum, my diaper is better because it is the first and last time it needs to be made. your diapers must be made over and over and over and over again.

not to be sarcastic, but would you seriously think of ingesting that gel or feeding it to your children because of claims it is "safe"? animals drink it? you can put it in flowers? my child and i are neither!

"not that bad" isn't good enough for me and my family, sorry. but i do appreciate what you're trying to say, and can tell you're being sincere and nice about it...i just find fault in the reasoning.

[jennyriver]

Originally Posted by trishshack

While I do not know if anyone has called SP toxic, it is not safe IMO. The MSDS for SP says to avoid contact with skin and to wash skin continuously for 15 minutes if it comes in contact. Just because something is not toxic doesn't mean it should be on your butt 24/7.

THAT's a really great point!

[jennyriver]

Originally Posted by twindaze

Believe me, the big diaper making company does extensive safety testing on their products, I used to work for them. However, those studies probably haven't been published. FWIW, I didn't work on diapers, but we did safety test the products I worked on.

i'd just worry here about who's paying whom to have testing done...it's like when i read about environmental studies done by oil companies...and they find that environmental impacts either don't exist or ar minimal. yet non-involved parties can come up with many results saying the opposite. it's in the diapering companies best interest not to find anything wrong w/the gel in sposies, KWIM?

short-term safety doesn't mean as much to me as long term, sorry. sposies being used for just 30 years, isn't that long. besides, i see SO many people around my age (1st generation of sposied adults) with endometriosis NOW and yet the disease has been diagnosed (but in smaller numbers) since the 1930's. i just can't agree its coincidence. and i'm not gonna take the word of a diapering companies research on that, sorry.

[memory maker]

I think that all moms are in search of validation for the choices they make (whether it is diapering or discipline) There are always going to be 2 sides of the story. In court systems there are aways 2 sides reporting their side. They take the same evidence and make it so it fits what they are trying to prove. So I am sure that all studies done by groups have 2 sides as well. Some are going to show that cloth diapering is the best and others will show sposies are "ok". You just have to pick and chose the battles that are the most important to you.

However, knowing how sacred cloth diapering is to the moms on this board, I am unsure why mommy2be (my sil ) decided to now come on and say that cloth and sposies are equal. I know that is her opinion and if that works for her family then great. Im sorry that you have had your feelings hurt by the moms here, but you should have known you would be in the line of fire. Most moms I have met on MDC are very strong in their convictions. You wouldnt want to go to the breastfeeding board and post that bfing moms are nuts and formula is the way to go, or go on the nutition board and say that Mcdonalds is the bomb, or go to nighttime parenting and sing the praises of CIO.

I fully support cloth diapering my dd and love it so much...I used sposies on my ds and am glad that I found a better option for my family. I only wish my family besides my ds(who loves cloth) supported what I do because most everyone thinks I am crazy. "Isnt it too much work?" "Dont you just want me to buy you some disposibles?" is what I hear most of the time.

[Goddess3_2005]

Originally Posted by mommy2be

ok, SP (im going to call it that from now on) is the same exact gel that you get from the flower shop that they use as a waterlock to feed the flowers. it is nontoxic and safe for the environment. im sure ive got some mamas fuming, but this is the truth. the actual SP powder is nontoxic, but if its inhaled it can hurt the lungs (a lot like many other powders).

Hmm not sure if this what your talking about, but the green foam that flowers are put into, commonly known as Oasis, is known to cause cancer, In fact I have a box of it in my basement and there is a warning that it is known to cause cancer and to handle with care and not to inhale the dust. If your talking about the the little packets of stuff you add to the water to make flowers last longer, all that is a asprin type substance.

Don't mean to start a fight, I used to be a florist for 7 years. Back to lurking on bedrest.

[Jennisee]

Stacee, I used to work in a florist shop, too! Actually, my degree is in horticulture, and one of my specialties is floral design!

No, she's talking about the clear crystals that swell up when they get wet. They are marketed for growing houseplants, but some florist shops use them instead of Oasis or shaved styrofoam. It's also sold as an additive for potting soil to increase the water-holding capacity. Didn't know that about the Oasis, though. It just never ends, does it? :

Ok, back on topics, folks. Sorry.

[Goddess3_2005]

Ohh ok , Vase fluff. I get it. LOL. I need to have this baby, it is draining all my brain power.

[lisabc311]

For me the bottom line is that they are chemicals and I don't want chemicals (whether or not they are seen as "safe") on my children's genitals.

[mommy2be]

Originally Posted by memory maker

However, knowing how sacred cloth diapering is to the moms on this board, I am unsure why mommy2be (my sil ) decided to now come on and say that cloth and sposies are equal. I know that is her opinion and if that works for her family then great.

ok, wow, i swore i wasnt going to come back on this thread simply because i didnt want to have to reply to everyone...first of all (carey)...that is totally not what i said. i never said they were equal...i was simply trying to tell people what the gel was that everyone was finding as so disgusting when laying a disposable diaper in a ton of water. and no, its not the same as the green florist oasis. i now have to go back and site my source i quoted..i forgot to do that. and then i will be sure to provide lots of links showing that the gel is totally safe. as far as dioxin, no--its absolutely not safe. i never said it was, however, *I* feel that disposables are fine and safe for my son, they work easiest for us..and like i said numerous times, i think cloth is wonderful, and i admire the mamas that do it full time (im pretty sure i said that too) and as far as the plastic parts of diapers being safe for the environment, no, of course theyre not...and there is actually a new place in california working on making a recycling system work for sposies...that will be wonderful. (and yes, i'll post a few links for that too since no one seems to believe ive done my research)

anyways--of course cloth is cheaper, and disposing of it is better for the environment. i dont think the manufacturing of it is necessarily better than the manufacturing of sposies...and yes, i'll be sure to find my resources and post them.

i cant even remember now how everyone else on here misread what my point of starting this thread was....now to go site the source i quoted and list some more resources for those that for some reason arent believing that the gel is safe....cant you just google it? or, go buy some at your garden center? the only part of it that isnt safe, like i have stated before, is the actual powder form, and its still NON toxic, but if you inhale it, its dangerous, just like tons of other powders....

geez, im exhausted. gotta get my sources now...

[mehndi mama]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (as I haven't read all responses), but my beef with disposables is *directly* related to the sodium polyacrylate gel and its' effects on human skin. Even though it is non-toxic, it is also a very very powerful moisture-absorber......and will draw the moisture right out of a tender baby's skin, leaving small red dot-like sores. I don't call that perfectly harmless at all.
Apparently, not all babies are prone to this type of reaction, but I've seen it happen often enough (and you should see the shock on the mama's face when you inforn her that it's those itty bitty gel beads doing the damage) that I'm convinced that the stuff is not good for use around human skin for long periods of time.

[Trishy]

now to go site the source i quoted and list some more resources for those that for some reason arent believing that the gel is safe

Non-toxic and safe sare not the same thing. Nobody in this thread is saying that SP is toxic but a few of use are saying that it is definately not safe.

Why don't you google sodium polyacrylate MSDS and see what it says about contact with skin. Of course the MSDS says it is non toxic but there would be no MSDS if it were SAFE.

[judybean]

Originally Posted by mommy2be

ok, ...i was simply trying to tell people what the gel was that everyone was finding as so disgusting when laying a disposable diaper in a ton of water. as far as dioxin, no--its absolutely not safe. i never said it was, however, *I* feel that disposables are fine and safe for my son, they work easiest for us..

I understand your original intent was simply to inform everybody what the gel was. That's great. But, as many mamas have already stated, there is a huge difference between 'non-toxic' and 'safe to have on your bum 24-7 for 2-3 years'.

And what is considered non-toxic now can be changed, again, as many mamas already stated (lead, asbestos, etc). Many of the mamas on these boards, by nature, attempt to avoid potentially harmful chemicals in as many ways as possible. So yes, you're going to get defensive mamas. Most mamas want to tread lightly on the planet and live as naturally as possible. Disposables just aren't natural.

If you want to use them for your son, that is fine. Nobody is saying you can't. In fact, as stated, many mamas have used disposables from time to time. Most mamas on here don't. Because, again, most mamas by nature that visit MDC are going for a natural approach (hence MDC's claim of being "THE Natural Family Living Community").

I think many mamas are already poked and prodded in real life about their choices to use cloth. They don't want to defend their choices here as well.

My two cents