sp - Page 3

[mommy2be]

i am now deleting my posts because first of all, no one is even understanding me....second of all, im obviously upsetting people by simply stating a fact, third of all, people are thinking im saying cloth is bad, its not..and i TOTALLY support my sil who uses and loves cloth, ive never heard anyone say she was crazy for doing so... and fourth of all, i dont have the time to sit here and defend my posts to those who arent following. so, now you can all go enjoy your day and stop getting upset at this thread, because im deleting it.

and yes, i do think SP is safe, not just non-toxic, on my ds's bum. he doesnt get rashes, although he has from detergent ive used on his cloth, which i switched, and he is now fine in them....

anyways--do i think cloth is great? YES
do i think sposies are safe? yes also
do i think theyre equal? no, did i ever say i did? no

do i also try to get rid of many harmful chemicals that my son may come in contact with? yes, do i buy all organic for him? yes, do i use natural cleansers? yes, etc etc etc....

do i choose to battle with sposies? no, i was not intending this thread in the way people have taken it. moms were freaking out about all the gel they could make come out of a sposie...i was simply saying what that was....

ok...i have got to go play with my babe now. peace and grace to all---sooooooo sorry for offending people, i am now leaving this board for good, too many angry mamas i come into contact with too often. i guess im just hyper-sensitive.

[orangecanoe]

I always love when people come and state 'facts' that stir up controversy and then backpeddle their way out of MDC because they don't get a warm reception. I don't see any of the earlier responses as evidence of anger, but of passion and concern for the health and safety of their children.

I'm not quite sure what kind of understanding for 'facts' about sposie gel one might have hoped to find on a natural family living board forum for those who use cloth. Focusuing on sp is a bit short-sighted and certainly not even one of the reasons I chose cloth. Certainly wouldn't convince me that sposies weren't so bad knowing that it's been factually stated that it's non-toxic or that one or a dozen or three dozen people's kids haven't had rashes from it. Not a chance I'm willing to take. And even if sposies were made out of organic/recycled paper , I would stilll not diaper my baby in something that clogs up landfills and is thus detrimental to the enviroment.

Originally Posted by mommy2be

i am now deleting my posts because first of all, no one is even understanding me....second of all, im obviously upsetting people by simply stating a fact, third of all, people are thinking im saying cloth is bad, its not..and i TOTALLY support my sil who uses and loves cloth, ive never heard anyone say she was crazy for doing so... and fourth of all, i dont have the time to sit here and defend my posts to those who arent following. so, now you can all go enjoy your day and stop getting upset at this thread, because im deleting it.

and yes, i do think SP is safe, not just non-toxic, on my ds's bum. he doesnt get rashes, although he has from detergent ive used on his cloth, which i switched, and he is now fine in them....

anyways--do i think cloth is great? YES
do i think sposies are safe? yes also
do i think theyre equal? no, did i ever say i did? no

do i also try to get rid of many harmful chemicals that my son may come in contact with? yes, do i buy all organic for him? yes, do i use natural cleansers? yes, etc etc etc....

do i choose to battle with sposies? no, i was not intending this thread in the way people have taken it. moms were freaking out about all the gel they could make come out of a sposie...i was simply saying what that was....

ok...i have got to go play with my babe now. peace and grace to all---sooooooo sorry for offending people, i am now leaving this board for good, too many angry mamas i come into contact with too often. i guess im just hyper-sensitive.

[Sustainer]

Dioxin has been determined to be so toxic that there is no amount of it that is considered a safe level.

And I guess I'll be the first to say this: from what I have read, I believe sodium polyacrylate to be not only unsafe, but also, yes, toxic. I'd spend the time to dig up references, but there doesn't seem to be much point now.

Also, it boggles my mind that anyone could think that the manufacture of disposables has no greater environmental impact than the manufacture of cloth diapers.

[twindaze]

Originally Posted by jennyriver

short-term safety doesn't mean as much to me as long term, sorry. sposies being used for just 30 years, isn't that long. besides, i see SO many people around my age (1st generation of sposied adults) with endometriosis NOW and yet the disease has been diagnosed (but in smaller numbers) since the 1930's. i just can't agree its coincidence. and i'm not gonna take the word of a diapering companies research on that, sorry.

FWIW, I also have endometriosis and was totally cloth diapered. I was breastfed too. These big companies do have an incentive to test products properly, they have deep pockets, look what happened to Dow over the whole silicone implant thing.

[GeorgiaGalHeidi]

I am sorry Jenny, I disagree. It is all a cost/benefit/risk analyses, that wins in favor of profits, not people. It goes like this...

Studies showing that their product will harm people will hurt sales costing, say, 8 bil. Having no studies and then having to pay off plaintiffs that sued after being hurt by their product, will say cost, 25 mil. Bottom line wins, lets go forward! It is less expensive to just pay off the people they hurt than to hurt their sales! Sounds evil and wrong and crazy, but it happens...look at the cig industry. They actually have people that do this. As a former lawyer that worked at an "asbestos firm"(representing companies like dow, and corning), I have become VERY cynical of lotsa big company politics! They will hold off for as long as possible before admitting that a product hurt people and pulling it off of the shelfs. They will knowingly harm people and just pay them off to keep the sales up.

THis is why I try to NEVER depend on a big company when my babies health is at stake. Trust Pampers? NO! Case point: On the answer section of Pampers website, they emphatically state that their diapers have NO dioxin. That is a flat out lie. The proof: It is impossible to avoid creating dioxins when you use chlorine to bleach paper and pulp-it's just a natural byproduct! And, when Sweden banned dioxin, Pampers had to close down a plant, and open up a new one where they did not use chlorine. There, they sell diapers that have not been bleached with chlorine. They actually have diff diapers, made differently, that they sell over there! Hmmmm...why would pampers have to go to the trouble of doing this if their diapers did not contain dioxin, and wouldn't it be nice if we could get these chlorine free diapers here in the states? Oh yeah, too much $, your baby is not worth it.

[twindaze]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGalHeidi

I am sorry Jenny, I disagree. It is all a cost/benefit/risk analyses, that wins in favor of profits, not people. It goes like this...
(

To be fair, I'm sure that it varies from company to company. And the diaper manufacturers depend upon their suppliers to test the raw materials anyway. Most consumer products are made with raw materials from other manufacturers. I'm quite sure that what you are saying does happen but having worked in R&D at several companies I know that the research and regulatory people definitely seriously consider the safety of their products. That's not to say that management couldn't pressure these folks and/or override them of course.

IMO any safety issues with SP would be related to any unreacted monomer that is left after the polymer is formed. And of course there will always be some monomer trapped, no way around that. Monomers can be dangerous. I don't know much about this particular one though. Polymers tend to be unreactive however. Just my Chemist perspective. As I said before, I think that there are many reasons to cloth diaper but for me, this is not one of them. Aside from the grossness factor, we used to have Huggies burst open and leave "pee balls" all over the place.

[jennyriver]

Originally Posted by twindaze

FWIW, I also have endometriosis and was totally cloth diapered. I was breastfed too. These big companies do have an incentive to test products properly, they have deep pockets, look what happened to Dow over the whole silicone implant thing.

now, i didn't say endo was ONLY cause by dioxin or sposies. we're all exposed to it, and at greater levels now than ever in history, so your endo could still have come from dioxin. my personal theory is that each individual reacts differently to different chemicals - you and i probably have a certain predisposition to endo (just like some people are more prone to cancer) and maybe a sensitivity to dioxin. knowing that dioxin is DIRECTLY linked to endo (not causing it in all individuals and not being the sole cause either, but still linked to it) why would ANYONE who has suffered with it risk exposing their child to the same chemicals that increase one's chances of developing it? especially since there is also a genetic link and we most likely have passed the risk on to our daughters...without even compounding it with dioxin?

case in point: a well known endo study was done on orangutangs - an animal that does NOT develop endometriosis naturally. they were exposed to high levels of dioxin. they later developed endometriosis. now, they didn't expose them by using sposies of course but the point it that yes, all of us will come into contact with plenty of dioxin that we can't control in our lifetimes. if limiting our exposure can eliminate or at least reduce our chances of developing endo, don't we owe that to our children? and direct contact with our genitals is not really what i consider limiting exposure!

[twindaze]

Originally Posted by jennyriver

now, i didn't say endo was ONLY cause by dioxin or sposies. we're all exposed to it, and at greater levels now than ever in history, so your endo could still have come from dioxin. my personal theory is that each individual reacts differently to different chemicals - you and i probably have a certain predisposition to endo (just like some people are more prone to cancer) and maybe a sensitivity to dioxin. knowing that dioxin is DIRECTLY linked to endo (not causing it in all individuals and not being the sole cause either, but still linked to it) why would ANYONE who has suffered with it risk exposing their child to the same chemicals that increase one's chances of developing it? especially since there is also a genetic link and we most likely have passed the risk on to our daughters...without even compounding it with dioxin?

And my endo could have been caused by something besides dioxins too. Who knows for sure?

As far as worrying about endo in my daughters, I wish I could! I have all boys, 4 of them.

[jennyriver]

Originally Posted by twindaze

And my endo could have been caused by something besides dioxins too. Who knows for sure?

As far as worrying about endo in my daughters, I wish I could! I have all boys, 4 of them.

LOL, i saw that after i posted....so, OK...take it as "our" collective daughters

[GeorgiaGalHeidi]

Oh yeah, I hear ya-I don't think all companies are evil, LOL, just some that have the bad track record-makes me synical!

[mistymama]

I'll never understand why someone will come to MDC, post something they know is going to be controversial, and then get their feelings hurt when a discussion starts. I don't think anyone was rude, people simply stated their concerns and thus the reason they still use cloth. I don't get the big deal ... I mean, posting something like this, you had to know that was going to happen?!

Anyway, regardless of the chemicals ... disposable diapers fill up our landfills and ARE NOT biodegradable. I recycle glass, paper and plastic ... why would I throw away 10+ diapers a day that are STILL going to be sitting there in the landfill when ALex has children??

I don't think sposies are the devil. I do think there is a better option, and I don't think you'll get much sposie support at MDC where the emphasis is on NATURAL family living. Meaning most of us care not only about chemicals, but about doing what is best for our environment as well.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by mistymama

I'll never understand why someone will come to MDC, post something they know is going to be controversial, and then get their feelings hurt when a discussion starts. I don't think anyone was rude, people simply stated their concerns and thus the reason they still use cloth. I don't get the big deal ... I mean, posting something like this, you had to know that was going to happen?!

I think that such posters (I hesitate to use the T word) desire and expect all of us to say "Gee, I didn't know that!! Thanks!!!!! "

[mistymama]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

I think that such posters (I hesitate to use the T word) desire and expect all of us to say "Gee, I didn't know that!! Thanks!!!!! "

Maybe? But geeze, they should know better! We've all done our research and have our reasons for using cloth. Finding out that someone's friend's dh says SP is non-toxic is not going to change many minds. :LOL

It's not like I go to mainstream boards and tell all the sposie users how they are putting toxic chemicals on their babies bums, or filling our landfills at an alarming rate. It wouldn't be received well! Just as posting about sposies on a board dominated by cd'ing Moms isn't going to go over well either!

[Frogmorest]

I think the troll is full now lol!!!

[mommy2be]

seriously---i dont even know what to say to everyone. i am not a freaking troll--- simply because i stated a FACT that sp is not toxic everyone on here got all crazy saying i said sposies and cloth are the equal, sposies are best, etc etc. NEVER did any such thing come out of my mouth. i deleted my posts because my sil got a little mean in her response to me, (she also obviously misread my post) *not sure how that happened, i guess mamas must think that sp and dioxin are the same thing, which i NEVER once stated...i also said continuously that dioxin is toxic and horrible, i also stated that we do a lot of natural family living things, cd'ing full time just isnt one of them, and so i guess that makes me an inferior mama to you all.
i, however, dont believe that. i also dont believe how people couldnt believe i would even post such a thread at mdc. seriously--i was stating what the gel was, a simple fact, and for everyone that doesnt believe me, just do a google for sp, or go to a library, etc. and look for yourselves. did i say that sposies were wonderful? NO...i have stated this many, many times and that is why i deleted my posts. i wasnt "backing down" etc. i was simply deleting them to avoid further conflict with my sil. i refuse to fight over cloth diapers, doesnt seem like a reason for conflict with family to me.

anyways--im glad you all got to have a ball bashing me and calling me a troll. however, like i stated before a few times, i am honestly now leaving. so yes, your "troll" is gone.

god bless you all, i hope you can find peace w/in yourselves to forgive a crazy troll. ???????? geez mamas.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by mommy2be

everyone on here got all crazy saying i said sposies and cloth are the equal, sposies are best, etc etc. NEVER did any such thing come out of my mouth.

i guess mamas must think that sp and dioxin are the same thing, which i NEVER once stated...i also said continuously that dioxin is toxic and horrible

did i say that sposies were wonderful? NO...i have stated this many, many times

You have clarified these things several times, yet I don't remember anyone saying that you said sposies and cloth are equal, or sposies are best, or sp and dioxin are the same thing, or dioxin isn't toxic or horrible, or sposies are wonderful.

i also stated that we do a lot of natural family living things, cd'ing full time just isnt one of them

The aspect of natural family living that is discussed in this particular sub-forum, though, is cloth diapering.

so i guess that makes me an inferior mama to you all.

No one said that, either. In fact, several people have said that using disposables does not make someone an inferior parent.

im glad you all got to have a ball bashing me and calling me a troll.

We ALL called you a troll? Most of the posts in this thread have been directed at the substance of what you said, not at you personally.

[mistymama]

Elise, I think you are taking this way too personal. First of all, you started getting upset and no one had done anything except for talk about why they still don't feel safe with SP, or Dioxin. I can't see where anyone said they were the same, nor can I see where anyone said you thought sposies were the same as cloth. AND CERTAINLY, no one said you were inferior for using sposies part time ... in fact, several of us, me included, said we don't think sposies are evil ... just not the choice for us.

I'm not sure why this is such a big deal. You posted about SP, I think a pretty interesting discussion followed, but now you are upset about that discussion. I don't think anyone personally attacked you, or said you are not as good of a mama because you use sposies. All anyone said was why they continue to question the safety of SP and why they choose to use cloth still.