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Library Book Circles - keep the Really Bad Books out of circulation - Page 3

post #41 of 403

oceanbaby I for one have not cheered on those

that buy and burn the books
I don't support book banning etc
I remember all to well the record and book burning when I was in high school
it was at its height of popularity
Any pastor or teacher in the community could decide for the community what we didn't need to be exposed to and would arrange bonfires and parents would take their records, their kids records and all the books on the 'lists' and go burn them

Luckily my parents had their own minds and would say it was up to them to approve or disapprove if it came down to it
but they never censored my albums or what i checked out of the school library

I know ezzo dangerous. My sil can tell you horror stories from her ER days but if we burn his stuff how long before people start burning sears? Pantley etal?
post #42 of 403
[I'm not sure why the OP is getting so attacked about this. You may think there is a better way to go about disemminating the information, but what she is doing is really no different than what many other MDC posters have done.[/QUOTE]

Huh. The "everybody is doing it so it's ok" argument. I missed all those other posts, I guess. Bookburning is bad enough, but I hold special contempt for people who mess around with public libraries, as libraries are like churches to me.
post #43 of 403
You can buy whatever the hell you like and burn it. You own it. But a library belongs to the community, a community which has the right to read and believe whatever it wants. You have no right to dictate to a community what you think it should read. Libraries are always underfunded, they never seem to have the book you are looking for. They then have to try to buy new ones. By removing books in whatever way, you are making sure that the library is never fully populated with all the information it can gather. No mattter what the information is on.
post #44 of 403
What nym said.
post #45 of 403
Keeping media (of any kind) with a certain view away from people is censorship. Censorship is bad. No one should get to decide what I(aas an adult) can/can't/should/shouldn't read/hear/see except me. Period.
post #46 of 403
Personally, I would never cheer on anyone who hid books at a bookstore (hello, did you pay for those books? Are you pleased to take business away from local stores so people can just order online?) , burned books for any reason (yes, if you own it you can do what you want, but it's still horrible to me), or hide and/or destroy library books. There are better ways to get other messages out there. As far as I'm concerned, you're doing nothing more than increasing interest - as in, WOW, these books are ALWAYS checked out, they must be GREAT!
post #47 of 403
To the person who said she destroyed Ezzo books:
You might want to look at the laws concerning what you are doing. You can face fines and even prison time. Here is the Massachusetts law. Other states have similar laws.



Warning-Criminal Penalties for Theft and Mutilation of Library Materials and Property

Massachusetts Law imposes severe criminal penalties on individuals who steal, mutilate, alter, destroy, or fail to return books or other library materials and property (see Massachusetts General Laws chapter 266, sections 99, 99a, and 100). Acts to which these penalties apply include:

I. Willful concealment on one's person or among one's belongings of any library materials or property and removal of same from the library. PENALTY: Imprisonment for up to five years and fine of up to $25,000.

2. Willful failure to return over-due library materials or property within 30 days after receiving notice from the library. PENALTY: Fine of up to $500 plus replacement value and reasonable processing costs.

3. Giving of false identification or fictitious name, address, or place of employment with intent to deceive; use of another's library card without the other's consent; or use of an invalid, counterfeit, or materially altered library card. PENALTY: Fine of up to $1,000.

4. Willful alteration or destruction of library ownership records or electronic or catalogue records. PENALTY: Imprisonment for up to five years and fine of up to $25,000 plus payment of replacement value and reasonable processing costs.

5. Willful, malicious, or wanton writing upon, injuring, defacing, tearing, cutting, mutilating, or destroying any library material or property. PENALTY: Imprisonment for up to two years and fine of up to $1,000 plus payment of replacement value.
post #48 of 403
I admit that when I used to go to the bookstore and saw Babywise I would hide it somewhere in the store. I have stopped because it is silly. If a person really wants a book they have many ways of getting it...another store, internet, borrowing from a friend, ordering from the bookstore and yes the library. Also, at least at my library, you can order books from other libraries in the city so they could always do that. I think hiding books and keeping them out of circulation is bad enough but destroying someone else's book from a library or store is iilegal and not very nice. It reminds me of that movie Fahrenheit 451...did anyone see that? Books were burned because of the ideas they put into people's heads....I think Dobson, ferber etc are jerks but it is not my decision whether or not someone chooses to read them..maybe they will hate the books and end up with Mothering or Dr. Sears or maybe they will love them and parent that way. I think they have the right as humans and parents to decide for themselves...just as I would be upset if someone destroyed Mothering magazine cause it talks about co-sleeping or the womanly art cause it talks about en...sorry to ramble.
post #49 of 403
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post #50 of 403
If we (society) all did this, there would be NO books in the library at all. Every subject is disagreeable to someone.

And to destroy a book absoultely disgusts me.

post #51 of 403
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post #52 of 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhurd
[Huh. The "everybody is doing it so it's ok" argument. I missed all those other posts, I guess. Bookburning is bad enough, but I hold special contempt for people who mess around with public libraries, as libraries are like churches to me.

I specifically didn't say it was okay. I simply pointed out that I have seen numerous posts here on MDC over the years about people hiding or destroying Ezzo (and similar) books, and there were no flames. Maybe if we disagree with her method of education, we can model the appropriate way to educate.
post #53 of 403
I disagree with this, I think it is censorship and vandalism of public property.

I do know that many of the EZZO books in circulation does have an anti-ezzo web site written in it. I don't know if I agree with that but at least the book is available.


"I'm quoting you but this question is for everyone that holds this position.
Even a book with child pornography?" Child pornography is illegal. There is a difference between the two. Also completely destroying all these books can bury the horrors in them. This does not mean they should be open accessed but to rush and burn them all is not prudent either. Another thought to this is what is considered child porn know might not have been 80-100 years ago.
post #54 of 403
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post #55 of 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonor
It's illegal because it's immoral.
Do you (and everyone with this opinion here) believe the way Ezzos and the like advocate treating children is moral?

The reason I ask this is I sense people here feel the obligation to tolerate the bad parenting books, which advocate parents to treat their children horribly inferior to dogs sometimes, because maybe they don't consider them that or just for fear their own books are censored as well if they allow the supression of freedom of expression. Not sure if that is a safe position to have, as there is no absolute freedom of expression anyway.
Morality varies. We see it as immoral for a 14 year old to marry but in many 3rd world country that 14 year old is someone’s wife. We see it ok to wear pants and skits that expose our knees, yet women in Afghanistan are wearing Burqa (SP) in the name of modesty because of the people in controls morality. People believe Ezzo is moral (I am not one).

Some people believe exposing your breast in public is immoral. I would not want these people to have control over me.

I don’t agree with Ezzo’s parenting but my parenting (co-sleeping specifically) is seen as immoral by some. What good would it be if they had the power to ban books to support my beliefs?

We live in a country of free speech this means we have to listen/put up with the idiots to. He has every right to say what he wants and I have every right to disagree with him. When we shut up the people we don’t like we start shutting up ourselves.

I deplore Ezzo, racism, et but I am not going to risk my rights by denying it to others.

Edit to this:

Our religious text can be use to support beating, spanking, maiming, and mutilating children why are you not wanting the banned and kept out of the libraries? Why are you not using the same principles for getting rid of Ezzo to get rid of the Bible, Koran, and Tohra?
post #56 of 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya43
Once you start destroying books you are in the same place as Nazis and Terrorists.
I guess I'm a terrorist. When I go to my libraries twice-yearly book sale, I buy up the crappy parenting books (I mean really crappy, leave-your-babies-to-cry-alone-and-spank-them-when-they-don't-listen books), bring them home and recycle them. Also, last time I was there, I found three Ezzo books, brought them up front, told the volunteer that his advice had been denounced by many major medical organizations as dangerous to babies. She thanked me and threw them directly in the trash.

I also turn around or relocate Ezzo's books and face out child-friendly parenting books when I'm at the bookstore.

I do agree that the OP's methods aren't the best - primarily because she's probably inadvertently supporting the library's purchase of more books. But a terrorist? That's a pretty ridiculous comparison.

By the way - no bad books? Sorry. Just not true. (And this from a bibliophile who has read and loved all sorts of typically objectionable stuff.)
post #57 of 403
:Puke:

i can't believe some people are advocating this behaviour!


you know, i have been writing research papers on controversial subjects for my argumentation class, and in any GOOD argument, you have to look at BOTH SIDES of an issue, not just the one you agree with.

now i'm wondering... have i been unable to find materials (books, magazines, videos, etc) to use in my research papers because of deplorable behaviour such as this?

CENSORSHIP IS NOT OKAY.

there's this thing called "freedom," you know? and it doesn't work without freedom of information, freedom to learn, freedom to research whatever we like, and the freedom to explore all sides of an issue. libraries are there, in part, to provide these materials to people who might otherwise not be able to afford them (as in the case of my most recent research paper, that i may have to resort to buying a book for because it is not available at the local libraries ~ because someone checked it out and never returned it )....

THINK ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE ACTIONS ON OTHERS, ON SOCIETY, AND ULTIMATELY, ON YOURSELF.
post #58 of 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Worm
I admit that when I used to go to the bookstore and saw Babywise I would hide it somewhere in the store. I have stopped because it is silly.
I don't think it's silly at all. People oftentimes go to book stores to browse, not to look for a specific book. So, they browse the parenting section and see Sears, who tells them that they need to be patient and gentle with their children through their various difficult stages and Ezzo who promises them immediate results and angel-like behavior. Wonder who they're going to buy? Also, every single Barnes & Noble I've been to in this area (and there are many) has a habit of facing out all of the quick-result, one-size-fits-all books and leaving positive parenting books faced in. Facing these books out gives them more exposure and significantly increases the chance of them being purchased. I wouldn't call rearranging them 'silly.' I'd call it productive and worthwhile.
post #59 of 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaisyRose
That's how I feel about Ezzo, too. I don't just keep Ezzo books out of circulation, I destroy them. Rip them to shreds and drop the remnants in the recycling bins, usually located very conveniently right beside the photocopiers.
Um I hate to inform you of this but as the wife of a librarian I know the system. At least for our areas libraries. The only thing you accomplish when you destroy the books that you don't care for is they replace the books that you damaged and don't have the money to buy new and different books. If a book is circulated and damaged they replace it. They then have less of their buying budget to get new books. Aside from the fact that I think it that what you do is completely ingnorant and illega what if the tables were turned and someone who has a burr about AP decided to do the same. Just live and let live and for crying out loud stop playing censor. Its not your job. Get involved in your efforst to promote AP in another manner.l
post #60 of 403
Quote:
I guess I'm a terrorist. When I go to my libraries twice-yearly book sale, I buy up the crappy parenting books (I mean really crappy, leave-your-babies-to-cry-alone-and-spank-them-when-they-don't-listen books), bring them home and recycle them. Also, last time I was there, I found three Ezzo books, brought them up front, told the volunteer that his advice had been denounced by many major medical organizations as dangerous to babies. She thanked me and threw them directly in the trash.
At least you own the books in that case and you just aren't going around defacing property.
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